Solar The Solar Panel Thread

[Boots in Action]

I leave the Drifter panel battery switched "on" so the Solar is always topping the battery off (I don't use a cover). When the van comes home it goes onto Mains 15A for 1 or 2 days min.


So....

Standby = Float.

I'll have a look at the battery if I can lift it out easily - but it's the Jayco supplied on on a 2016 van.

The reason for my interest is I will be removing the Standard Jayco PWM Solar controller and replacing it with a new Victron Smart Solar 100/20. Just wasn't sure what (if any) settings had to be tweaked and if so, what values I need to set.

Thanks again for taking the time.

If you have a Ritar Gel battery, I would have a max voltage setting of 14.4 volts as per the side of battery. If you do not have a remote temperature sensor with the Victron , then I would set it at 14.3 volts. The same with the float - as per the side of battery at 13.8 volts or 0.1 volt less if no remote temp sensor. These voltages will probably be higher than your Drifter charger, but will put more energy into the battery storage. If I just connect my Setec to charge on 240 volt power, the best I can get in stored energy (voltage) is 12.6 volts after a day or two off charge no load. If I use my "smart" charger, set for AGM, the voltage even after a week or more off charge stays at 13 volts - more energy stored because max voltage was used in charging?? Not just 14.0 volts from Setec. Lots of info on battery types/limitations/advantages on computer if you are interested..

 

[Boots in Action]

@Boots in Action Sorry I was referring to the jayco supplied PWM controller (topray) voltages, not the setec. I don't have the specs for it but my drifter would show about 14.4V with full sun which I think is typical for a cheap PWM. My point was more about being able to source much better controllers for not much more. I now get to set my bulk/absorption and float to whatever without continually over driving (in my opinion) the batteries. I have wired the topray to an external anderson and it still gets used when I plug in my portable panels. I also set my solar controller(s) based on planned usage so they defer to the setec in caravan parks and do their job when freecamping

Hi @jazzeddie1234 , out of interest, I had a look at your Eco-Worthy 20A MPPT controller to see what the specs are. I note that the user adjustable setting for charge voltage is 13.0 to 15.5 volts, so there is plenty of scope to cover any type of battery. The float voltage is adjustable from 12.5 to 14.5 volts. Whilst the over-discharge and Restart voltages are there at 10.2 to 13.5 and 10.3 to 13.5 volts respectively, I do not believe that these settings will be available to you unless LOAD is connected through solar controller. However, as you have a Drifter panel, that is not necessarily a loss. However, if you fall back to the Drifter Low Voltage Disconnect (I do not know what it is), there is virtually no protection for your battery if it is as low as the Setec power distribution I have, which is stated as 10.0 volts plus or minus 0.2 volt. I am not fully familiar with the sophisticated Drifter panel as yet, so am unable to offer any comment. As I have the Load circuit connected to the solar controller, I have been able to have a setting of 11.8 volts and a re-connect of 12.4 volts on my controller. I would be keen to hear how you are thinking about using this very valuable (IMHO) setting.
I was intrigued that you said that the controller needs 30 volts on the input from the solar panel to start operating, which means as you said two panels in series. Is that correct for all start ups or just the initial one on connecting the wires for a 12 volt operation??

 

[jazzeddie1234]

Sorry 30V was based on my poor memory. The ecoworthy I have has 2 charging modes that it selects automatically. PWM if the solar input is close to, or less than the battery voltage and when in float. MPPT when the solar voltage is above the battery voltage and in bulk charge. I found from trial and error that it works well in low light by putting 2 panels in series so it stays in mppt mode for longer. The newer models are better because they still work in mppt for low light regardless of voltage - my ute dc dc does this but for a much higher cost of course.
I don't use the load terminals much and haven't given much thought to low voltage disconnection.
BTW the ecoworthy is 1 of several similar $100 to $150 units. Some come with remote displays. I use good old youtube to find someone who has checked its mppt capability

 

[jazzeddie1234]

I had a look at the setec book. While the low voltage disconnect is 10V I am guessing that it assumes the battery is being drained under load rather than simply drifting down. Under load the voltage is much less than when not. Maybe they assume the flat battery will bounce back to 12 ish volts when tripped? Otherwise it would disconnect too early?
I don't think the drifter adds any smarts to battery protection except display a warning.

 

[Boots in Action]

Sorry 30V was based on my poor memory. The ecoworthy I have has 2 charging modes that it selects automatically. PWM if the solar input is close to, or less than the battery voltage and when in float. MPPT when the solar voltage is above the battery voltage and in bulk charge. I found from trial and error that it works well in low light by putting 2 panels in series so it stays in mppt mode for longer. The newer models are better because they still work in mppt for low light regardless of voltage - my ute dc dc does this but for a much higher cost of course.
I don't use the load terminals much and haven't given much thought to low voltage disconnection.
BTW the ecoworthy is 1 of several similar $100 to $150 units. Some come with remote displays. I use good old youtube to find someone who has checked its mppt capability

Thanks for clearing that up @jazzeddie1234 . I can agree with you totally about having two panels in series, especially in low light. You may not have much current being generated in low light conditions (cloudy days and late afternoon), because the irradiance?? on the panels from the light is low, but the voltage still stays fairly high. That extra voltage can be converted into more amps to supplement what the panels are generating. The one thing that puts a MPPT controller ahead of the PWM in the same conditions. I have both my panels 200w and 180w connected in series giving me a total of 38.8 volts when controller is in float mode and little load. 21A is the highest I have see when battery was around 12.3 volts and under 2.4A load. It was not there long before dropping back to 18A and then to a steady 16A for quite a while whilst in MPPT mode. Then it goes to Boost for a max of 2 hours before going back to MPPT if not fully charged or it moves to Float status. I cannot remember what the minimum start voltage was when I first connected it up. I think it was just to detect and set the operating or running voltage ie. 12 volt or 24 volt system . I paid $145.00 when I bought my LD solar two years'ago, (a proper MPPT type) and I see it on special now for approx $123.00. Great value and with a lot more features than the one you have and had a 2 year warranty too, from Foster NSW. Separate display screen not required as all settings can be made on control panel and all displays visible by pushing selected button .
Thanks for your info. It's great conversing with another member who has the same or similar equipment.

 

[Boots in Action]

I had a look at the setec book. While the low voltage disconnect is 10V I am guessing that it assumes the battery is being drained under load rather than simply drifting down. Under load the voltage is much less than when not. Maybe they assume the flat battery will bounce back to 12 ish volts when tripped? Otherwise it would disconnect too early?
I don't think the drifter adds any smarts to battery protection except display a warning.

Probably correct @jazzeddie1234 . My Daughter's TopRay was not much help as my Daughter did not keep an eye on voltage and in any case, the load was not connected to the solar controller at that time. However, the Setec did cut off the battery power when they only had a small light and a small battery television running - approx 3A only. Hardly a heavy load! So it must have been drifting down slowly and operating the lights and water pump occasionally for some time before it could no longer handle even a light load. And the battery was really stuffed and could not be recovered even with a "smart" charger and another battery in parallel to kick start it!! If you happen to leave an interior light on or some other light electrical load is forgotten, then over a week or so, your battery is cactus!! That is why I feel that an LVD at a higher voltage is much better.

 

[jazzeddie1234]

Thinking about this a bit more... Rerouting the loads through a solar controller would be a fair amount of work. One option would be to install an old school 4wd low voltage relay in the battery feed. This has a problem that the relay will not reconnect without manual intervention as most have the voltage sense on the battery side (because it is assumed the alternator will recharge) but a more elegant idea would be to energise the relay from a solar controller load output. Of course the controller would have to be on the battery side but this allows some recharge before the relay reengages. Thinking even further the relay could be paralleled with manual disconnect on the setec...

 

[Boots in Action]

Thinking about this a bit more... Rerouting the loads through a solar controller would be a fair amount of work. One option would be to install an old school 4wd low voltage relay in the battery feed. This has a problem that the relay will not reconnect without manual intervention as most have the voltage sense on the battery side (because it is assumed the alternator will recharge) but a more elegant idea would be to energise the relay from a solar controller load output. Of course the controller would have to be on the battery side but this allows some recharge before the relay reengages. Thinking even further the relay could be paralleled with manual disconnect on the setec...

@jazzeddie1234 , as I do not have a wiring diagram for a van with the drifter controller, it is very hard for me to visualize where the electrical connections and wiring are necessary to incorporate the Loads going through the solar controller. Firstly, any loads going through the solar controller MUST be within the capacity of the controller to deliver. So 30A controller means 30A in and capable of 30A out. No use having a 20A controller and trying to take 30A out to cover any load! In my own situation, my only load output is at the fuse point and has 8 X 10A fuses but the whole lot is covered by a 20A fuse. It is unlikely that I would I would ever get close to 20A total - the highest line at the moment being the electric pump of 3 or 4A which I have a 5A fuse for that circuit. Other loads are for lights and radio, and extra 12 volt sockets for USB charging, and 12 volt TV or for exterior 12 volt LEDs. My controller is rated at 30A. Do you have any items that would draw in excess of 20A or combos that would get close to that level? In my particular case (simple one) , my controller is in fact in parallel with the Setec LVD, but because of the higher voltage setting of 11.8 volts sensed by the controller, it will disconnect the loads well before the Setec even looks like doing it at 10 volts. If it is not SIMPLE , it is not going to help anyone!! Only enthusiasts are going to see the worth of the extra work!!
In any case ALL high power loads should be connected directly across the battery terminals and separately fused. @Drover has mentioned before that it could be that the actual wiring may be a problem because of their positioning in and behind walls but I managed to do it for my Daughter's Jayco Journey, but she did not have a Drifter panel either. Not all the Load/s need to be fed through the controller, just those that are used frequently. As the solar controller gets its power from across the battery terminals (as well as for putting power into the battery), the controller would be able to sense the voltage at that point and disconnect any loads through the load terminals of controller. If that occurred at say 11.8 volts (before the battery gets into the NON full recovery mode?), that would act as an early warning to reduce loads or increase power input. If people keep a close eye on the Drifter voltage, this is all academic, but if you don't, or miss it, the solar controller will protect your battery/ies.
Is it possible to just have some of the Load circuits wired through the solar controller without denigrating the operation of the Drifter and its readings? Maybe a bit of work running the wiring but I am sure it can be done. Very keen to hear what you have to say.

 

[jazzeddie1234]

The drifter adds a couple of functions to the setec. The main one is the shunt which the drifter uses to show amps in/out and give an indication of state of charge (which it uses to calculate hours left) and of course the tank levels. The other 2 features are pump on/off (a simple in-line switch) and battery disconnect which is connected to 2 terminals of the setec - so the setec is doing the disconnect. I was wondering if, instead of moving loads from the setec, if it were easier to connect to the battery disconnect terminals (I'm not sure if it is activated by a short or open circuit). I made up a really rough cct to show the idea

 

[Boots in Action]

The drifter adds a couple of functions to the setec. The main one is the shunt which the drifter uses to show amps in/out and give an indication of state of charge (which it uses to calculate hours left) and of course the tank levels. The other 2 features are pump on/off (a simple in-line switch) and battery disconnect which is connected to 2 terminals of the setec - so the setec is doing the disconnect. I was wondering if, instead of moving loads from the setec, if it were easier to connect to the battery disconnect terminals (I'm not sure if it is activated by a short or open circuit). I made up a really rough cct to show the idea

Thanks for the quick response @jazzeddie1234 . For your information, with my solar controller, there is a shut down switch and when I have (accidentally) pushed it whilst looking at logging detais, it not only shuts down the controller output, but has disconnected the battery system to the SETEC as well, so perhaps both are linked. When this happens, it sounds like a relay in the Setec system. So if that is the case, if power is lost (or voltage too low to hold contacts together), the"pull in" coil lets the contacts separate and the MAIN battery power is disconnected. This would mean that there must be some sort of voltage and small current to energise coil to enable contacts to close for current to flow to load circuit, either through the SETEC distribution circuit AND/OR the solar controller as the controller is connected across the battery terminals.
It is too late for me to think about connections tonight when a Drifter panel exists, but have a look at my post on how I have done it when no Drifter panel is in the system. I have a Setec ST20 Series III the same one as in the picture you sent me. I disconnected the Pos and Neg battery terminals coming from battery to the Setec distribution point at the box, and connected two new wires for the van loads from the Setec distribution box directly to the Solar LOAD terminals. Have a look at my post and pictures and see if that helps, because I think you are on to something very simple.
Under Electrical, look for "Ignorance may be bliss, but won't keep your power going". Post # 14 dated Jan 6, 2019.

 

[jazzeddie1234]

Ok I can see what you mean after reading that thread. The advantage of your design is the display of amps in and out which I get from the drifter. The only disadvantages I can see is when the low voltage is tripped in the solar controller - the setec can't charge the battery (not that it has much grunt anyway), and you have possibly longer runs of cable from battery to controller to setec to loads. My topray came standard with fairly light (10 at a guess) gauge cable to the battery as standard. The ecoworthys are connected with 8awg and my high capacity anderson plug (for the inverter) is right at the shunt. Then again the standard jayco cable from battery to setec is not that great anyway, and like you said, anything under the setec limit of 20 amps is not really an issue

 

[Boots in Action]

Ok I can see what you mean after reading that thread. The advantage of your design is the display of amps in and out which I get from the drifter. The only disadvantages I can see is when the low voltage is tripped in the solar controller - the setec can't charge the battery (not that it has much grunt anyway), and you have possibly longer runs of cable from battery to controller to setec to loads. My topray came standard with fairly light (10 at a guess) gauge cable to the battery as standard. The ecoworthys are connected with 8awg and my high capacity anderson plug (for the inverter) is right at the shunt. Then again the standard jayco cable from battery to setec is not that great anyway, and like you said, anything under the setec limit of 20 amps is not really an issue

Not quite @jazzeddie1234. Correct that one can see amps in and amps out with the load connected to solar controller terminals and my LD MPPT controller needs to do that to be able to perform all the continuous logging of operation - Ah in /out, number of times full charge reached, number of times disconnected for over/under voltage and many more too! But, if the LVD (in solar panel) trips out, the solar power from the panels STILL CONTINUES TO PUT POWER INTO BATTERY. Only the load circuit from controller terminals is disconnected and the LVD in the Setec remains unaffected ie. still passing current to rest of the system for anything connected directly across directly across the battery terminals. And there would not normally be any need for the Setec to provide power if you are off grid and dependent on battery and solar power. Agreed that the length and gauge of cables can affect things sometimes. Fascinating stuff really!! I did a complete check on exactly what happens when battery switch is OFF and ON, with and without load some time ago. Will see if I can find it and send it to you as a PM. 16 different tests in all to make sure I had it correctly connected and it did not affect anything else. Great discussions.

 

[davemc]

I just got Solar installed at home and the company that did my inverters Enphase are bringing out a new version that does 240v straight from the panel.
So of course I think this be great for a van. You can use power straight to 240v and hook up remainder to battery.
These are designed for off grid or black out. Not for sale as yet. no idea price. Current model is $200 per panel I assume these will be more.

 

[Drover]

I like that @davemc .

 

[jazzeddie1234]

Apparently they are called micro inverters and a google search threw up a few interesting links about them

https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/pros-and-cons-of-string-inverter-vs-microinverter
https://www.solarquotes.com.au/inverters/micro/

 

[davemc]

What I just got on my roof. With home grid solar when the power goes out the solar shuts down. As the power could of been turned off for works so they do not want vaultage going back into the grid and zapping the workers.

This new version works out the grid is down and isolates itself. No idea when they be released in OZ

 

[Drover]

I could imagine in a camping situation a lot of folks getting curly hair and toe nails.....

 

[Macca_75]

I haev just replaced the stanard TP-1230 solar controller (or whatever the model is) with my new Victron 100/30 MPPT.

I confirmed I have a Ritar 12/100ah - http://www.ritarpower.com/upimg/20151211154018926.pdf

Can someone please confirm for my Victron Controller what I set my values at?

Is it

Battery Voltage: 12v
Absorption Voltage: ??
Float Voltage: ??

Also, looking at https://www.victronenergy.com/live/victronconnect:mppt-solarchargers do I want to enable "Auto Equalization" or not?

Thanks in advance

 

[jazzeddie1234]

The spec sheet says
14.6 to 14.8 for absorption / equalization
13.6 to 13.8 for float
I would use 14.6 and 13.6 for light use (say mostly plugged at caravan parks) and the higher values if the battery is frequently discharged to say 50%

You will find plenty of debate about charge voltages!

I would enable auto equalization for light use as the unit will be mostly in float mode and the occasional boost is useful - your spec sheet says every 3months. Less useful for heavy use where the unit will use absorption mode much more often

 

[Boots in Action]

The spec sheet says
14.6 to 14.8 for absorption / equalization
13.6 to 13.8 for float
I would use 14.6 and 13.6 for light use (say mostly plugged at caravan parks) and the higher values if the battery is frequently discharged to say 50%

You will find plenty of debate about charge voltages!

I would enable auto equalization for light use as the unit will be mostly in float mode and the occasional boost is useful - your spec sheet says every 3months. Less useful for heavy use where the unit will use absorption mode much more often

Hi @Macca_75 , I generally agree with @jazzeddie1234 in his suggested settings as it is an AGM. Therefore your 240V Setec will NOT do the complete job in meeting these figures when plugged into power at a caravan park. Your solar controller WILL. The only other thing to consider is the temperature at which the battery is charging. All figures listed are at 25C, and at much higher temps say 30C plus (at the battery position), 14.6 to 14.8 volts may need to be lower and vice versa in colder temps. Heat kills batteries and cold does not allow full charge to be obtained. Same for float voltages. A lot of good controllers have a temperature sensor built into the unit (sensing unit temp only) which is reasonably acceptable, but if the controller is away in a cool cupboard somewhere and the battery/ies are in some hot area in the front boot or some other place, it is a different story!!. However, if your Victron unit has a REMOTE sensor (one that has a thermistor that can be taped onto the top of enclosed battery and has a lead to connect to controller), all charge voltage settings will automatically be adjusted by the control unit according to the temp of battery. That is the ultimate way to get the best out of your battery under ALL conditions and without having to change any of your settings. If you do not have this, then go for what @jazzeddie1234 has said.
Equalisation is only to make sure that all cells are at the maximum charge and the same voltage - it lets the lower voltage cell or cells get charged up slowly to be the same as the others and does not overcharge those that are already high. Technically, it consists of a high voltage charge to a fully charged battery for a short time only - approx 15 to 30 minutes. Helps get max storage into battery if battery has been heavily discharged and not fully recharged at the time.