Solar The Solar Panel Thread

[Axl]

Hi @Axl , I think this has come up before, but I believe that it needs reviewing again for those that want the max out of their AGM. Firstly, the Setec will only charge to a voltage of 14.1 volts. This is a very safe voltage for a Gel battery (and an AGM too!!). The Setec will "Maintain" the battery well. However, it is 0.6 volts short of OPTIMUM charge voltage for AGM batteries which need 14.7 volts to enable FULL capacity to be reached during "bulk" and "absorption" phases of charging. Float voltages are not so critical, and although a Gel battery is slightly lower, both are within the range of the Setec.
@Axl , if you think your AGM battery is fully charged, try connecting up your sophisticated multi stage smart charger and note just how long it takes to go through de-sulphation to soft, bulk and absorption to reach float/maintain. You will be surprised at the time it takes to get the extra missing charge capacity into battery from where the Setec has left it. If I use the Setec for "charging" , my LED volt meter in the van only ever shows about 12.6 volts after three or four hours OFF charge (no load). If I use the "smart charger", the battery voltage reading is ALWAYS 13.0 or 12.8 volts after more than 6 hours OFF charge. As I understand it, this means that more energy has been stored into the battery whilst charging. Incidentally, the battery in my Penguin is now nearly 5 years old and I have had it for the last 2.5 years and regularly utilize 38 ah daily when off the grid for up to 6 days. Fortunately, my solar panels and MPPT controller replace this amount and more most days. On return from outing, I place battery (120 ah AGM) on smart charger for a while until it shows "float", and then change over to the Setec to "maintain". Pedantic yes! A little more work - yes, but I believe well worth it!! Note battery SOC voltages for AGM battery below and optimum charging voltages. Different to flooded lead acid batteries.

I finally got around to putting my 25amp Projecta 7 stage smart charger onto the battery in the Expanda last week with surprising results, anyone who doubts the ability of the Setec chargers to maintain their batteries shouldn't. My van has the ST20-II Setec in it and this unit has looked after my battery keeping it in tip top condition with no worries at all.

The smart charger went straight past bulk charge to the absorption stage and within 10 minutes went to the fully charged and float stage. I haven't had the Projecta on this battery (120amp AGM 5 years old) for at least 3 years I have simply been ensuring to plug the van in every month or so to allow the Setec to do its work and now I've seen the results.

These Setec's can and will keep your battery in tip top shape if you ensure to use it every couple of months or so.

 

[Bellbirdweb]

I finally got around to putting my 25amp Projecta 7 stage smart charger onto the battery in the Expanda last week with surprising results, anyone who doubts the ability of the Setec chargers to maintain their batteries shouldn't. My van has the ST20-II Setec in it and this unit has looked after my battery keeping it in tip top condition with no worries at all.

The smart charger went straight past bulk charge to the absorption stage and within 10 minutes went to the fully charged and float stage. I haven't had the Projecta on this battery (120amp AGM 5 years old) for at least 3 years I have simply been ensuring to plug the van in every month or so to allow the Setec to do its work and now I've seen the results.

These Setec's can and will keep your battery in tip top shape if you ensure to use it every couple of months or so.

Glad to hear that about the Setec @Axl. I see people bagging them all the time but mine has been great and keeps everything nicely charged and managed.

 

[Boots in Action]

Glad to hear that about the Setec @Axl. I see people bagging them all the time but mine has been great and keeps everything nicely charged and managed.

Hi @Axl and @Bellbirdweb , great feedback on Setec. I have never had a real problem with the system and what it does. Very simple and "idiot proof" . The only deficiencies as I see them relate to slower rate of charge and low voltage level reached for an AGM. I know that the specifications for Setec show max voltage reached is listed at 14.1 V which is definitely too low for an AGM, and my own observations and results tend to prove this. I am sure that @Axl would have set the "smart charger" to AGM or Flooded (not calcium or Gel), so terminal voltage (as set in the electronics inside) must have been reached for the setting selected, before charger moved on to next cycle (absorb, analysis and then float). A sign of good battery condition exists if that happens quickly. If charging with Setec, voltage never reaches 14.7. The voltage shown several hours AFTER charging finished (no load) is the real sign of a fully charged AGM, not according to me, but to the references I have been able to look up and have provided. The difference in what available power has been stored in battery may not be that significant , but it still exists. I would rather start a trip with battery voltage at 13.0V than 12.6 V. Maintenance of battery on float charge has never been an issue.

 

[Axl]

Glad to hear that about the Setec @Axl. I see people bagging them all the time but mine has been great and keeps everything nicely charged and managed.

@Bellbirdweb, I too have heard a few people bag the Setec's but as now know they do a mighty fine job. I've been wanting to put the smart charger on this battery for a while now to see what happened and I am glad I did.
They aren't as sophisticated as the Projecta as they are a four stage unit and as I understand not as clever but the Projecta quickly analysed that the battery was in a good SOC and went straight to float.

Hi @Axl and @Bellbirdweb , great feedback on Setec. I have never had a real problem with the system and what it does. Very simple and "idiot proof" . The only deficiencies as I see them relate to slower rate of charge and low voltage level reached for an AGM. I know that the specifications for Setec show max voltage reached is listed at 14.1 V which is definitely too low for an AGM, and my own observations and results tend to prove this. I am sure that @Axl would have set the "smart charger" to AGM or Flooded (not calcium or Gel), so terminal voltage (as set in the electronics inside) must have been reached for the setting selected, before charger moved on to next cycle (absorb, analysis and then float). A sign of good battery condition exists if that happens quickly. If charging with Setec, voltage never reaches 14.7. The voltage shown several hours AFTER charging finished (no load) is the real sign of a fully charged AGM, not according to me, but to the references I have been able to look up and have provided. The difference in what available power has been stored in battery may not be that significant , but it still exists. I would rather start a trip with battery voltage at 13.0V than 12.6 V. Maintenance of battery on float charge has never been an issue.

@Boots in Action, my 25amp 7 stage Projecta puts out 14.4V maximum as charge voltage when set to AGM. It was your prompting that made me run this little test, I have been meaning to do it for years but never got around to it. Whilst I understand what you are saying about having a load to indicate a proper SOC I was pleasantly surprised and very happy when the unit went into float in under 10 minutes.
This showed me that the Setec's do a mighty fine job, although (as you have said) they max out at around 14.05V-14.1V this is more than enough to keep your battery in a full SOC if you use it regularly.
The speed at which the battery charges is determined by the amps being put back in, the Projecta can be set to deliver 2,6,12 and 25amps at a given voltage for battery make. As we know it is not a good thing to charge at anything over 10% of battery capacity so for my 120amp battery a good rate is 12amp. I have in the past used the 25amp setting to recharge when the sun hasn't been shinning and I need to fire up the genie and get some power back as quick as possible but I try to avoid this.
The extra .35V that the Projecta supplies will also speed things up a little but it really isn't needed, as the battery recovers the voltage rate being delivered drops to suit and once fully charged float voltage is pulsed into the battery at 13.8V for the Projecta and around 13.2V for the Setec.
As long as you are delivering a voltage above full SOC which as you have said is 13V (many say 12.7V) your battery will always fully charge given enough time, with no load of course.

 

[Boots in Action]

@Bellbirdweb, I too have heard a few people bag the Setec's but as now know they do a mighty fine job. I've been wanting to put the smart charger on this battery for a while now to see what happened and I am glad I did.
They aren't as sophisticated as the Projecta as they are a four stage unit and as I understand not as clever but the Projecta quickly analysed that the battery was in a good SOC and went straight to float.



@Boots in Action, my 25amp 7 stage Projecta puts out 14.4V maximum as charge voltage when set to AGM. It was your prompting that made me run this little test, I have been meaning to do it for years but never got around to it. Whilst I understand what you are saying about having a load to indicate a proper SOC I was pleasantly surprised and very happy when the unit went into float in under 10 minutes.
This showed me that the Setec's do a mighty fine job, although (as you have said) they max out at around 14.05V-14.1V this is more than enough to keep your battery in a full SOC if you use it regularly.
The speed at which the battery charges is determined by the amps being put back in, the Projecta can be set to deliver 2,6,12 and 25amps and as we know it is not a good thing to charge at anything over 10% of battery capacity so for my 120amp battery a good rate is 12amp.
I have in the past used the 25amp setting to recharge when the sun hasn't been shinning and I need to fire up the genie and get some power back as quick as possible but I try to avoid this. The extra .35V that the Projecta supplies will also speed things up but it really isn't needed, hence why float voltage is 13.8V for the Projecta and around 13.2V for the Setec from memory.

Thanks for the prompt reply @Axl. I agree with your information. After sending my last post, I looked up the specs on your very sophisticated charger and noted that the terminal voltage setting for AGM is set at 14.4 V. This is probably within the range for various brands of AGMs so should not be a worry.
I agree with you on the charge rate normally used as about 10% of capacity and this is a good rule of thumb for most batteries. However, AGMs can handle lots more without damage if necessary, especially if the charge rate is monitored with a temp sensor, which I note your Projector has. I had an Odyssey AGM at one stage (not in van) and the brochure gave an indication of why there is no or very little heat build up whilst charging. An example given showed an Odyssey at 100% DOD being charged with a 100A charger and was able to put in 80% capacity in 40 minutes without problems. Not that we are likely to do the same and who has a 100A charger anyway??
Your regular use and cycling of battery capacity is what keeps it in good condition I am sure. Yes, you have found that the Setec meets all your requirements, but it is a basic charger only - only 3 stage on charging. The other one is a type of "top up" in float mode. I am sure that the Projecta does a better job as you said, but that is not necessary at the moment as you keep your battery well maintained. I think the Setec has afloat voltage setting of 13.6 V which is quite satisfactory indeed. Thanks again for your informative feedback and comments.

 

[Boots in Action]

Thanks @Drover , @Bellbirdweb and @Boots in Action for replying to my post. I am sorry it has taken a while to respond - granny flat, moving logs from second very large tree removal, spreading of mulch and on it goes.
I became interested in changing my controller when I recently purchased a portable panel with attached MPPT controller - I then read about PWM and MPPT.
The van is brand new with 2 x 150watt panels and 2 batteries.
I presume to fit a new controller that I simply remove the current one and connect the new one in its place? Or is it more complicated than that?
Just reread your replies and it looks like that is what I need to do!
The one you have @Boots in Action has gone up in price, but that is not a problem.
I think I will get one and add it to the pile of items in the garage that are waiting to be fitted when I get the chance!
We are heading north in the middle of the year.
Thanks again
Bill

Hi @Billrw136 , thanks for the response about purchasing an MPPT controller. I had a look at the latest cost of the MPPT controller I had purchased and bloody hell, they now want $200.00!!! Far too dear!! I also saw that the Epever with separate panel and lead is still only about $156.00. The only thing then needed is temp probe which is available for about $12.00. That would be the one to go for even if you did not use all the equipment included. Contact @Bellbirdweb for full fitting instructions as he has successfully moved things around to fit it in a better spot and achieved excellent results too.
You mention that you saw an MPPT controller on the back of a portable panel the other day. On the first solar panel I purchased, it had a "supposed MPPT Controller" attached, but it was definitely a fake - just marked that way. Fortunately, I was not using it and bypassed it for a better PWM controller inside my van. However, I had a look at an other camper's panel the other day and it had what looked like a genuine MPPT controller on the back - small 7A max- but probably a genuine item. There are a lot of fakes around, so be careful. @Bellbirdweb originally had a problem with a purchase of a supposed MPPT controller, (cheaper than the LD or Epever, but did not work, so he raised his sights and purchased an Epever 30A I think. See his postings earlier on this subject.

 

[Drover]

My old 14.44 the setec was plugged into the mains to keep things juiced when at home and it kept the battery up to speed as I did what @Axl did once and never bothered again as the old basic setec did the job, my biggest gripe is lack of function display and absolute crap wiring though that wasn't a manufacturingfault.
I don't like the new integrated models though, all the eggs in one basket, can destroy a holiday in one fell swoop.

The current price of my Pro Star controller is more than your MPPT controller @Boots in Action so it must be way better.......lol,lol,lol........

Strange thing has happened with my Projecta charger, it was playing up, work for awhile and then fault, push a function button and it would fault so opened it up when I discovered the fan wouldn't run, thought I had got it working again as a bad connector but while it charged okay the button function still sent it to fault, since the solar does 99% of the charging I put it in the One Day I'll box, since adding the extra battery it all works faultlessly, have moved the cables before so maybe this time is shook something, who knows but leave it alone now..................................

 

[Boots in Action]

My old 14.44 the setec was plugged into the mains to keep things juiced when at home and it kept the battery up to speed as I did what @Axl did once and never bothered again as the old basic setec did the job, my biggest gripe is lack of function display and absolute crap wiring though that wasn't a manufacturingfault.
I don't like the new integrated models though, all the eggs in one basket, can destroy a holiday in one fell swoop.

The current price of my Pro Star controller is more than your MPPT controller @Boots in Action so it must be way better.......lol,lol,lol........

Strange thing has happened with my Projecta charger, it was playing up, work for awhile and then fault, push a function button and it would fault so opened it up when I discovered the fan wouldn't run, thought I had got it working again as a bad connector but while it charged okay the button function still sent it to fault, since the solar does 99% of the charging I put it in the One Day I'll box, since adding the extra battery it all works faultlessly, have moved the cables before so maybe this time is shook something, who knows but leave it alone now..................................

Hi again @Drover , regarding the price of my original Powertech 20 A solar controller which has a lot of sophisticated features and was a PWM type, they still want around $185.00 plus postage? In hindsight, an expensive controller. For a lot less cost, I now have a much more efficient MPPT controller - or it was a lot less when I bought it! Keeping it as a spare (future junk??). Yes, I too had a look at the current wanting price for your PWM Pro Star controller and it is pretty expensive also. But it looks good with a lot of features and a good visual display readout too. Good quality usually costs more, but cheaper in the long run and not worth changing unless needed.
Yeah, about your Projecta charger, the fault light would probably come on when the fan stopped and unit automatically shut down when internal temp exceeded design. With your moving and bumping around, possibly the heat sensor (a thermistor of some sort) was bumped from original position to an area too close to a heated part. But if now it works, leave it alone. "If it aint broke (now), don't fix it" (by dropping it again!!

 

[Boots in Action]

buggered if I know
all I know is 240 bites baddly, so I dont touch it - thats what them mystical erektrikery people are for.........

I do know, that some solder joints (12V) in cars - clocks and such.... sometimes crack - making clock not work, or better yet, a Xmas clock (only works once a year) - tis usually a "dry" solder crack

re-do solder - and away you go with new fully working clock

Relax @bigcol , there is no 240 volt bite with batteries and solar panels and connections as mostly only 12 volts and maybe 20 volts or so with solar panels. No "bities" there, BUT high possibilities of wires becoming red hot and, sparking, burning, and smoke, and fire to frighten the bejesus out of you if you make a mistake.

 

[Drover]

My sentiments exactly @Boots in Action , my I relocated the Projecta from a crappy position in a cupboard to in the boot, redid the connectors to make sure the voltage wire was connected and it still played up, would run fault codes/beep for awhile then reset or I could reset after a couple of reboots, I'm pretty sure the fault was heat related even though nobody could tell me what a 4 or 6 code was...
Now it seems to work again, no need yo replace even though its rarely used anyway. Sitting on the beach, panels on ute in full sun, battery charged and Engel growling away but need a better controller,

 

[Boots in Action]

My sentiments exactly @Boots in Action , my I relocated the Projecta from a crappy position in a cupboard to in the boot, redid the connectors to make sure the voltage wire was connected and it still played up, would run fault codes/beep for awhile then reset or I could reset after a couple of reboots, I'm pretty sure the fault was heat related even though nobody could tell me what a 4 or 6 code was...
Now it seems to work again, no need yo replace even though its rarely used anyway. Sitting on the beach, panels on ute in full sun, battery charged and Engel growling away but need a better controller,View attachment 59438

Hi @Drover , I was ignorant of the fact that you have a Projecta charger in your van and an integral part of your electrical system. But hard to find a 240 volt outlet whilst sitting at the beach or away from the grid. It is highly unlikely that I will ever use my Powertech 20A controller again, so if you are still looking for a cheaper PWM option, mine is available with the original instructions if you wish to deal. Photo attached. Can also send up copy of directions to study if you wish. Cheers

 

[Drover]

Thanks for the offer but the Pro Star in the van is 30 amp and works well, I may upgrade the portable one day but it going okay and like you I do have one on the shelf which will replace the elcheapo in ute, one day....maybe tomorrow, lol.

I have played with one of them somewhere seemed like a reasonable unit.

 

[bigcol]

Relax @bigcol , there is no 240 volt bite with batteries and solar panels and connections as mostly only 12 volts and maybe 20 volts or so with solar panels. No "bities" there, BUT high possibilities of wires becoming red hot and, sparking, burning, and smoke, and fire to frighten the bejesus out of you if you make a mistake.

dont you carry marshmallows with you when camping @Boots in Action

fire is easy, you can see it
you can hear it
you can smell it
you can taste it
and
you can feel it


elektrickery you can only feel it............
prefer fire thanks

 

[Drover]

Drovers Tip # 38........Remove stainless steel watch before working near alternator, shorted on the battery terminal of alternator, watch welded to terminal, hand cooked, arm nearly broken, head hurt from bonnet, kids learnt some new words including the neighbors.

 

[Billrw136]

Hi @Billrw136 , thanks for the response about purchasing an MPPT controller. I had a look at the latest cost of the MPPT controller I had purchased and bloody hell, they now want $200.00!!! Far too dear!! I also saw that the Epever with separate panel and lead is still only about $156.00. The only thing then needed is temp probe which is available for about $12.00. That would be the one to go for even if you did not use all the equipment included. Contact @Bellbirdweb for full fitting instructions as he has successfully moved things around to fit it in a better spot and achieved excellent results too.
You mention that you saw an MPPT controller on the back of a portable panel the other day. On the first solar panel I purchased, it had a "supposed MPPT Controller" attached, but it was definitely a fake - just marked that way. Fortunately, I was not using it and bypassed it for a better PWM controller inside my van. However, I had a look at an other camper's panel the other day and it had what looked like a genuine MPPT controller on the back - small 7A max- but probably a genuine item. There are a lot of fakes around, so be careful. @Bellbirdweb originally had a problem with a purchase of a supposed MPPT controller, (cheaper than the LD or Epever, but did not work, so he raised his sights and purchased an Epever 30A I think. See his postings earlier on this subject.

This is what I have - Engel Series 2 smart battery box with 110ah lead crystal battery inside. Solar King 120w portable solar panel with MPPT controller.

 

[Boots in Action]

Drovers Tip # 38........Remove stainless steel watch before working near alternator, shorted on the battery terminal of alternator, watch welded to terminal, hand cooked, arm nearly broken, head hurt from bonnet, kids learnt some new words including the neighbors.

Very sound advice @Drover !! Remove rings and any other items that might conduct or catch on something when working on tug or van or anything!!!

 

[Boots in Action]

This is what I have - Engel Series 2 smart battery box with 110ah lead crystal battery inside. Solar King 120w portable solar panel with MPPT controller.

View attachment 59467

View attachment 59466

Hi @Billrw136 , great shots of your equipment. Lead crystal battery too, which I had to look up details on again as few people have them. At first glance looking at picture and then on other sites, the controller may only be a PWM type not MPPT. Can you give model number and details of controller and where whole solar panel was purchased from?? Remember that MPPT controllers must have some sort of transformer to convert higher voltage to more amps and this makes them heavier. I notice on back of panel that max working voltage is 18.0 V ??? and max working current is rated at 6.0 A?? So working on that, I think it is a 160 watt panel (2 X 80w).
As only small current, just maybe an MPPT controller and not a "fake".

 

[Drover]

I also found out not to touch fence with rifle, especially when said fence is connected to a zapper, that is very dangerous, thankfully the training runs deep and finger was in the correct position, certain parts of anatomy had moved though...............................the moral being that even 12v can cause a jolt that in turn can cause death by a 3rd party action, always treat it as HOT like 240..........
(and you thought I was going off topic ).

 

[Boots in Action]

Hi @Billrw136 , great shots of your equipment. Lead crystal battery too, which I had to look up details on again as few people have them. At first glance looking at picture and then on other sites, the controller may only be a PWM type not MPPT. Can you give model number and details of controller and where whole solar panel was purchased from?? Remember that MPPT controllers must have some sort of transformer to convert higher voltage to more amps and this makes them heavier. I notice on back of panel that max working voltage is 18.0 V ??? and max working current is rated at 6.0 A?? So working on that, I think it is a 160 watt panel (2 X 80w).
As only small current, just maybe an MPPT controller and not a "fake".

Hi again @Billrw136, did you know that lead crystal batteries need SPECIAL charging and your solar panels and charging system in van may compromise warranty?? Try google - charging lead crystal batteries for full details.

 

[mikerezny]

I also found out not to touch fence with rifle, especially when said fence is connected to a zapper, that is very dangerous, thankfully the training runs deep and finger was in the correct position, certain parts of anatomy had moved though...............................the moral being that even 12v can cause a jolt that in turn can cause death by a 3rd party action, always treat it as HOT like 240..........
(and you thought I was going off topic ).

Hi @Drover,
quite a good point.
Another case closer to home:
A lot of vans have 12V to 240V inverters.
If one is working around the 12V wiring without it switched off and has taken the effort to ensure the van is not connected to 240V, but has forgotten that the 240V sockets wired to the inverter are still actually live, and the appliances connected to them, then there is certainly a potential for getting fried.

cheers
Mike