Its in a Engel Box @Boots in Action which is one of the all singing, all dancing battery boxes with it's own charging system, just plug in your preferred mode of steam and it will do the job.
Solar The Solar Panel Thread
- Thread starter cruza driver
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Hi @Drover,
if the box has its own solar controller AND the panels appear to have their own solar controller, then I would suggest their are two solar controllers connected in series. That would not appear to be a satisfactory way of connecting the solar panels.
cheers
Mike
Oh yeah @mikerezny , inverters do send a shiver down me, when I've fitted stuff to the van I always try to make sure as much as possible where the 240 runs are, once I have drilled/screwed or rivetted I do a continuity test on the 240 sockets before I plug in the big steam and even run the meter off the chassis and ground just to be sure....tin sides, alloy frame so should arc up well if shorted, RCD is all well and good but I like to be sure.
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Hi @Drover,
I suspect a lot of inverters are installed by owners after delivery. There are many many ways that these can be wired so nothing is standard. Consider the poor sod who has purchased a second-hand van with absolutely no information on how it has been wired.
With an inverter on board, it is not enough to ensure the van is not hooked up to external 240V to consider that the van wiring is perfectly safe to work on since there is only 12V floating around.
cheers
Mike
Hello again @Billrw136 and @mikerezny , I did some more research on the lead crystal battery, and although on one of the sites, there is a warning about what one must do to charge these special batteries, Redarc has put out a statement that their engineers have fully tested their chargers with Lead Crystal batteries. Redarc state that their DC to DC chargers and other type chargers will properly charge Lead Crystal batteries IF SET FOR AGM TYPE BATTERIES which will reach the required higher charge voltage of 14.7 V. So just make sure you have charger/s' setting on AGM.
@Drover , if that is the case, then why is the lead from the solar panels/controller connected to Engel box to charge the Lead crystal battery?? If it has its own controlling system in Magic box, then the controller on back of panels should be bypassed!!
Thanks for the reminder @mikerezny . That is something I had not considered and especially important if retro- fitted by ????. Apologies to you @bigcol about no 240 v bites. There could be some around if inverters are fitted. Always make sure that all switches are off, leads removed and power 240 V AC or 12 V DC are not connected. I would not like to see you with all your hair? standing on end or singed.
Hi @Boots in Action,
to make the issue even worse, consider that any appliance wired to an inverter is probably not earthed and there is no Earth Leakage Detector to protect the equipment or users.
Not really sure exactly how an inverter should be wired inside a van to make it as safe as the normal 240V van wiring.
There are two distinct cases:
1: appliances are plugged directly into the sockets on the inverter. If nothing is plugged in then it is safe. Better still if the inverter is also switched off.
2: appliances are plugged into what looks like a standard 240V wall socket and that socket is wired back to a 240V plug which is plugged into the inverter. This is the most dangerous. Is the wall socket the special caravan double switched or a normal single switched socket. How do you tell which sockets go to the inverter and most probably unprotected and which go through the RCD (Residual Current Device s a circuit breaker with the added safety of cutting off the current when a leakage to earth is detected). If it was me, I would paint the inverter wall sockets a bright color and have a prominent sticker near them saying what they are and what to do to make sure they are inactive. Probably overkill, (hmm pun not intended).
I remember an old story in my Telecom days told by an electrician. When one electrician is working on a live circuit, he should never ask another electrician to go turn off the power. It is the reponsibility of the person working on the circuit to ensure the circuit is turned off. Apparently, although it is in the best interests of the electrician working on the circuit to make sure the circuit is safe, but moreso, it was pointed out to me, that should the other person turn off the wrong circuit and the other electrician is killed, that person has to then live with that for the rest of his life.
Was working in an old building with a new false ceiling, spent hours running around on the ceiling installing telephone cables and using the dangling drop wires for the old lights from the original ceiling (but lights fittings removed) to steady myself. In a thoughtful moment I got out my test screwdriver and the drop wires were all still live!!! Only luck that I didn't touch the bare ends. Didn't sleep well that night.
cheers
Mike
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Hi @mikerezny AND @Billrw136 , I had a look at your very expensive and sophisticated Engel Series 2 battery box on computer, and note that you were able to chose the battery of your choice for the box. At the bottom of the advertisement for this Engel, it lists all the various battery types which are "compatible" with the workings of the unit. All listed including Gel, AGM, Calcium, Lead acid (Flooded) and the latest Lithium (LiFePO4), but no mention of Lead Crystal type. Am I right in assuming that the seller recommended this type and advised it was a suitable for use in the Engel box??
@mikerezny , it has a 7 stage "smart charger" probably for the 240 V ac input and can accept solar charging via an Anderson plug socket at the side. This connection is probably wired directly across the Lead Crystal battery and therefore the controller on the back of panel is necessary. If the controller is in fact an MPPT with various settings for different batteries, then @Billrw136 is doing fine if set for AGM. What do you reckon to give @Billrw136 some confidence in his own system??
Hi Mike, I definitely "LIKE" #1 . If #2 was the situation that I could not change, I would definitely have the all the power points connected to an inverter painted a very high visibility colour with a clear sign "Inverter use only". The only other thing that might help is to have a good copper earth stake driven into wet ground near van and a heavy flexible cable connecting to to a bolt or good positive part of the van chassis.
I was always told to assume ANY wire is "live' until YOU prove it it has no potential. Test screw drivers are a great thing to have in your overall's pocket.
Hi @Boots in Action, @Billrw136,
my post was not meant to be critical of this system. Apologies if it came across that way. I was interested to find out how it was connected If indeed the Engel box and the panel both had the solar controllers.
cheers
Mike
On some jobs we would have the circuit breaker, keys to engine or firing handle in our picket so nobody could activate whatever was bring worked, electrocuted, driven over, mashed in machine or inadvertantly blown to little bits.....I trust no one.
in my old Flamingo, I fitted a 2000w pure sine inverter
had its own "power point" to be used when on batteries (a brown PP)
and
it was only used to charge phones and lap tops
never used it for anything else
and when I sold it to a dealer
there was instructions laminated, and fitted next to said Power point - to explain
had its own "power point" to be used when on batteries (a brown PP)
and
it was only used to charge phones and lap tops
never used it for anything else
and when I sold it to a dealer
there was instructions laminated, and fitted next to said Power point - to explain
@mikerezny and @Boots in Action and @Drover - the following is copied from the Engel manual.
Q. Can I charge the battery using solar panels?
A. Yes you can as long as the main isolator switch is in the “on” position. This type of charging is not controlled by the on-board microprocessor since the charge current will flow direct to the battery via the main isolator switch. If an external voltage regulator is not used there is a risk of overcharging and damaging the battery.
Q. Can I charge the battery using solar panels?
A. Yes you can as long as the main isolator switch is in the “on” position. This type of charging is not controlled by the on-board microprocessor since the charge current will flow direct to the battery via the main isolator switch. If an external voltage regulator is not used there is a risk of overcharging and damaging the battery.
Thats similar to what I did when I sold the Tardis, I had added an extra page in it's book with the added wiring I had done though I didn't fit an Inverter this was just the 12v.
Thats what I thought @Billrw136 , a nice tidy unit for being portable..
Thats what I thought @Billrw136 , a nice tidy unit for being portable..
Hello again @Billrw136 , thanks for the info on your Engel battery box and also your solar controller. I looked up the manual on the controller and lo and behold, it has the same pictures and controls and even the same wording in the instruction booklet for my 30A LD Tracer Dreamtime Series MPPT charger - the one I sent you a picture of!!! Obviously made by the same manufacturer and sold under Sun King label whilst attached to solar panel. Cannot see them as a separate unit as yet. And a true MPPT controller attached to a solar panel is rare indeed. There is normally a hefty price penalty for that quality item!
With my unit, I wanted the higher charge voltage for my AGM and contacted them about the lower voltage of 14.4V for "sealed". They came back and told me to use "Flooded" at 14.6V to get closer to optimum of the 14.7V I wanted. So I guess you may have done the same for your Lead Crystal. That MPPT controller on your panel has a lot of similar features to mine including adjustable battery types and settings for LVD and LVR as as well as float, and a good operation log too. Very impressive!!
I may be wrong, but I do not think there are many members on this forum who have taken the "leap of faith with their wallets" to purchase and install a Lead Crystal battery. The cost verses the advantage is too wide for most of us. I have done a lot of research since you mentioned it and although there is limited info on their life in service and the amp hour capacity is not as high, it appears that they are almost indestructible in being able to "come back from the dead" many, many times without damage. There is a video on a test with a standard sealed Lead Acid battery same rated amp hour capacity (not an AGM unfortunately!), but it was NO contest with the Lead Crystal. Even up against a Lithium, they out-perform at less than half the Lithium price and without the special charging arrangements required for Lithium. At least you can get close to optimum charging algorithm by using an AGM setting. Good luck with it and your Engel Battery box.