Solar The Solar Panel Thread

Boots in Action

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Hi @Bellbirdweb,
Yes, all your testing does point to the new controller being faulty. Every extra test you can do narrows down the possibilities for where the problem is or is not.

I once spent a couple of days trying to get a very expensive character generator working in a television production house and the editors were on my back to get it fixed because the production suite was pretty well out of action without it. Did a 24 hour stint. First obvious check was power supply voltage. 5V, so all fine, move on. In the end, out of frustration with inconsistencies in my testing, I put an oscilloscope across the power supply. 5V DC was there all right but a whopping great 100Hz hum on it as well. The problem was that the huge power supply capacitors had dried out. New capacitors and I was flavour of the month (at least until the next problem come along!). I know I digress and that this has nothing to do with solar panels. In several years time I will still digress but by then I won't even know I am am doing it!

I hope your new MPPT controller works as expected. The good bit is that you got a full refund without any hassles.

cheers
Mike

Hi @mikerezny and @Bellbirdweb , just got back from a 6 day break in the Jimna State Forest. Sorry to hear that you had a problem with a faulty MPPT controller, but glad you are having another try, this time with an Epever. Noted that you will have to relocate controller because of larger size than current space position allows. Before leaving last Monday, I was able to replace the original BYPASS diodes with Schottky 15sq60 type. The idea was to try a hook up of 3 panels even though the total amp output from the panels would be limited to the smallest one, but with up to 60 volts available, I thought there would be interesting results. Unfortunately, the weather was not consistent enough to try this out but I was very, very thankful to get much out of sun as not many good periods for max generation!! Still great to get 3 to 4 amps into battery after receiving only very poor light owing low cloud and light rain a lot of the time. The ability for the MPPT controller to give me more amps from the 30 odd volts into a battery at 12.4 volts was the reason I was able to hold out against the elements. According to my controller, my daily outgoing was around 32 to 38 AH (fridge fans, light, phone and I-pad charging etc), but input was close to or within 6 AH of this on most days, so I was able to stay above the 12.3 volts level. Don' t like getting down that low before I set up the panels first thing in the morning, in case a lousy day for generating forces me to get too close the my cut out voltage setting on 11.9 volts. I doubt my previous PWM controller would have been able to cope with the duller conditions. Thought you might like to know how things were going. Certainly very happy with the controller I purchased from C-trade.
 

Bellbirdweb

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So, MPPT controller install take 2.

Received my Eperver Tracer with the MT50 remote unit, and have fitted it up.

Used the old wiring from the panels and to the batteries to extend the panels into the front boot, and mounted the controller in there with all of the other electrics, and ran a new Cat5 cable to run the MT50 remote unit, mounted where the old controller used to be.

Very happy with the results so far, was seeing 15A charge going into the battery with 12A coming from the panels (love that MPPT) and have never seen more than 11A from the old PWM controller.

I have ordered the PC cable so I can connect into it and look at more details.

MT50 remote for controller.jpg
Eperver Controller.jpg
 

Boots in Action

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Mar 13, 2017
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So, MPPT controller install take 2.

Received my Eperver Tracer with the MT50 remote unit, and have fitted it up.

Used the old wiring from the panels and to the batteries to extend the panels into the front boot, and mounted the controller in there with all of the other electrics, and ran a new Cat5 cable to run the MT50 remote unit, mounted where the old controller used to be.

Very happy with the results so far, was seeing 15A charge going into the battery with 12A coming from the panels (love that MPPT) and have never seen more than 11A from the old PWM controller.

I have ordered the PC cable so I can connect into it and look at more details.

View attachment 57676 View attachment 57677

Hello @Bellbirdweb , great to see you are making some good progress at last and finally getting the benefits of an MPPT controller. Noticed that you have Epever in front boot. Will it get enough air flow through back of controller if working hard?? Also, I believe that you still have panels connected in PARALLEL. Did you connect both inputs into the common connection on the controller or have you connected them together outside?? I know that I am an urger for SERIES connections and this would be quite easy if both panel inputs are close together. Perhaps they are on the roof into a common connection at the back of one of the panels?? Do not forget to ensure there is a BLOCKING diode for each panel whilst in PARALLEL in case one panel is shaded out. As you know, I have replaced the BYPASS diodes in my panels with Schottky 15 A 60 V to handle the higher voltage. Should you go SERIES, recommend similar replacement to at least 45 volt type. I have some of them too!!
One other thing - I have a brand new Epever external temperature sensor thermister with good lead (for battery temperature) to adjust battery charging voltage. I will never use it as not suitable for my controller. Let me know if you can use it to complete all the accessories for your EPEVER or perhaps I can send you a PM to work something out?? Please keep me informed of developments and results. Regards
 

Bellbirdweb

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Jan 24, 2014
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Hello @Bellbirdweb , great to see you are making some good progress at last and finally getting the benefits of an MPPT controller. Noticed that you have Epever in front boot. Will it get enough air flow through back of controller if working hard?? Also, I believe that you still have panels connected in PARALLEL. Did you connect both inputs into the common connection on the controller or have you connected them together outside?? I know that I am an urger for SERIES connections and this would be quite easy if both panel inputs are close together. Perhaps they are on the roof into a common connection at the back of one of the panels?? Do not forget to ensure there is a BLOCKING diode for each panel whilst in PARALLEL in case one panel is shaded out. As you know, I have replaced the BYPASS diodes in my panels with Schottky 15 A 60 V to handle the higher voltage. Should you go SERIES, recommend similar replacement to at least 45 volt type. I have some of them too!!
One other thing - I have a brand new Epever external temperature sensor thermister with good lead (for battery temperature) to adjust battery charging voltage. I will never use it as not suitable for my controller. Let me know if you can use it to complete all the accessories for your EPEVER or perhaps I can send you a PM to work something out?? Please keep me informed of developments and results. Regards
Hi @Boots in Action, I didn’t have any other options for mounting the controller. It’s a large area so hoping it get sufficient ventilation, if not I’ll need to install a fan, just going to see how it goes. It didn’t even get warm @15A.

It’s still connected with both panels in parallel, as the panels are factory fitted at each end of the van, the junction is hidden somewhere, so is not easily accessible.

I can’t see myself trying to trace it back to wire them series, it’s just not worth it at present given I’ve never run out of power with the PWM, so now with the MPPT providing a few more amps, I’m pretty happy as is.

Re the temp probe, I’m happy to take it off your hands, I was going to order one on eBay anyhow, I’ll PM you.
 
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Drover

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Today I found out that my roof top panel is a 200watt job, always thought it was a 120 or 150, you lot got me going to climb up and unbolt it for a look see, nicely set up with quality fittings and a junction to plug another one in, one day, maybe.......

So now I'll have to run down the battery and have a look see at how well the ProStar30 controller works while it is only a PWM it does have a bit more class than the run of the mill van jobs, best I've seen was 8.8 but then I don't monitor it very much and when free camping I usually have a 120w portable plugged in to the system as well to get things charged up early in the day.................I suppose if I plug the Engel in overnight and switch off the ProStar, by lunch time I should have a battery down enough for a check..........................
 

Bellbirdweb

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Today I found out that my roof top panel is a 200watt job, always thought it was a 120 or 150, you lot got me going to climb up and unbolt it for a look see, nicely set up with quality fittings and a junction to plug another one in, one day, maybe.......

So now I'll have to run down the battery and have a look see at how well the ProStar30 controller works while it is only a PWM it does have a bit more class than the run of the mill van jobs, best I've seen was 8.8 but then I don't monitor it very much and when free camping I usually have a 120w portable plugged in to the system as well to get things charged up early in the day.................I suppose if I plug the Engel in overnight and switch off the ProStar, by lunch time I should have a battery down enough for a check..........................
Nice bonus @Drover, always better to have more than you thought.
 
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mikerezny

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Today I found out that my roof top panel is a 200watt job, always thought it was a 120 or 150, you lot got me going to climb up and unbolt it for a look see, nicely set up with quality fittings and a junction to plug another one in, one day, maybe.......

So now I'll have to run down the battery and have a look see at how well the ProStar30 controller works while it is only a PWM it does have a bit more class than the run of the mill van jobs, best I've seen was 8.8 but then I don't monitor it very much and when free camping I usually have a 120w portable plugged in to the system as well to get things charged up early in the day.................I suppose if I plug the Engel in overnight and switch off the ProStar, by lunch time I should have a battery down enough for a check..........................
Hi @Drover,
when you were inspecting the panel, did you happen to write down the panel specifications. O/C Voltage, S/C current, as well as Voltage and Current for maximum power output?

With the PWM controller, the maximum current you can expect into the battery should be somewhere between the current for maximum power and the S/C values. My guess is that the 8.8A you have monitored will be lower than both of these values. But, horizontal roof mounting may be the cause of some of this lower reading.

In strong sunlight and a battery that needs topping up, on my PWM controller, I regularly get values as high as the S/C current.

Another question, on your inspection, did you happen to note the existence of any diodes in the connection panel? If so, did you happen to see if they were wired in as bypass or blocking diodes?

All of these details might also be of use to you in the future if you are considering wiring in an extra panel.

cheers
Mike
 
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Drover

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Hi @Drover,
when you were inspecting the panel, did you happen to write down the panel specifications. O/C Voltage, S/C current, as well as Voltage and Current for maximum power output?

With the PWM controller, the maximum current you can expect into the battery should be somewhere between the current for maximum power and the S/C values. My guess is that the 8.8A you have monitored will be lower than both of these values. But, horizontal roof mounting may be the cause of some of this lower reading.

In strong sunlight and a battery that needs topping up, on my PWM controller, I regularly get values as high as the S/C current.

Another question, on your inspection, did you happen to note the existence of any diodes in the connection panel? If so, did you happen to see if they were wired in as bypass or blocking diodes?

All of these details might also be of use to you in the future if you are considering wiring in an extra panel.

cheers
Mike

Took a pic of the tag underneath was nearly going to open up the box under the panel to see what the set up was but the wind was getting up and had visions of it taking off across the yard also after 5 or 6 years I don't like popping plastic clips so left well enough alone but the wiring is set up to plug another panel in and it all works well........I don't recall when I noted the 8.8 reading but its a flat roof panel and I find when camping with my 120 portable hooked in I have full noise in my battery by 0900 or earlier, of depending on the sun and the hills and with both panels working well during the middle of the day thats when the laptop and stuff gets charged up with the portable keeping things topped till sundown when the battery gets to do some work, I'm all set up to hook up another battery when someone gets around to buying another, not urgent but like to have some back up storage......I doubt if I'll put an extra panel on the roof though the portable gives far better long term performance, but again I've never studied it's figures, maybe on a boring camp trip I will find time.


.solar panel tag.jpg...........and Hurricansolar went into receivership in 2015 so the 25 yr warranty like most is useless..
 
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mikerezny

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Hi @Drover,
great that you have the specs for the panel.

So, on a good day at 25C the most current you will get from the panel will be about 11A. So, allowing for decreases due to horizontal mounting and operating at temperatures above 25C, 8.8A into the battery from a PWM controller would seem quite reasonable.

I agree that a portable panel has a number of advantages over fitting another fixed panel on the roof:
Easier to replace and maintain if it becomes faulty
Easier to keep clean
Easier to keep in the sun
Should be able to be optimally aligned for best efficiency.
Can be used to charge other batteries

My guesstimate would be that 120-150W of portable solar would probably be equivalent to about 200W of solar mounted on the roof.

Only downsides are packing and unpacking and finding a safe place to store it for traveling.

cheers
Mike
 

Drover

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Yep I have always said my portable was better than the roof job in regards to supply and is very handy when some tree throws shadows over van and since we mostly free camp an extension with 6 B&S cable gives it a bit more freedom and little loss, Big Mal has easy, roomy storage for it so isn't a problem, the advantages far exceed any hassle anyway, it can also charge the Ute's aux when the Yaks cover the Ute's panels.
If the Utes aux was a GEL I would plug it into the van to charge it. Though the roof panel means my battery is always charged up while driving or just sitting in the yard and for short stops I don't need the extra panel out.
 
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Boots in Action

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Today I found out that my roof top panel is a 200watt job, always thought it was a 120 or 150, you lot got me going to climb up and unbolt it for a look see, nicely set up with quality fittings and a junction to plug another one in, one day, maybe.......

So now I'll have to run down the battery and have a look see at how well the ProStar30 controller works while it is only a PWM it does have a bit more class than the run of the mill van jobs, best I've seen was 8.8 but then I don't monitor it very much and when free camping I usually have a 120w portable plugged in to the system as well to get things charged up early in the day.................I suppose if I plug the Engel in overnight and switch off the ProStar, by lunch time I should have a battery down enough for a check..........................

Hi @Drover , "you lot" seems to get your conscience going a bit!! Are you feeling guilty? Getting left behind with the crowd! Now you know what you have in solar power, you can upgrade to a MPPT controller so you can do more off grid. With a 20% plus increase in output, you could leave the 120 W panel permanently connected to vehicle to run the Engel!!.
 

Boots in Action

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Hi @Drover,
great that you have the specs for the panel.

So, on a good day at 25C the most current you will get from the panel will be about 11A. So, allowing for decreases due to horizontal mounting and operating at temperatures above 25C, 8.8A into the battery from a PWM controller would seem quite reasonable.

I agree that a portable panel has a number of advantages over fitting another fixed panel on the roof:
Easier to replace and maintain if it becomes faulty
Easier to keep clean
Easier to keep in the sun
Should be able to be optimally aligned for best efficiency.
Can be used to charge other batteries

My guesstimate would be that 120-150W of portable solar would probably be equivalent to about 200W of solar mounted on the roof.

Only downsides are packing and unpacking and finding a safe place to store it for traveling.

cheers
Mike
Yes @mikerezny , you have covered all or most of the variables there, plus the advantages and disadvantages. But what happens when the roof top panel is in shade (in the afternoon?) and the portable panel is connected to the van (in parallel?) or directly to the battery?? Could there be some conflict if NO BYPASS diodes are fitted to 200 W roof panel??
 

mikerezny

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Yes @mikerezny , you have covered all or most of the variables there, plus the advantages and disadvantages. But what happens when the roof top panel is in shade (in the afternoon?) and the portable panel is connected to the van (in parallel?) or directly to the battery?? Could there be some conflict if NO BYPASS diodes are fitted to 200 W roof panel??
Hi @Boots in Action,
if I remember correctly, @Drover has a separate solar controller for the portable panel and has a heavy duty lead going directly from the battery to an Anderson plug which he connects to the output from the solar controller for the portable panel. The fixed and portable panels are thus isolated by their respective controllers and their is therefore no need to fit BLOCKING diodes.

Also, as regards the rooftop panel being in the shade, there is also the possibility of leaves and bird poo impacting solar performance.

cheers
Mike
 

Boots in Action

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Hi @Boots in Action,
if I remember correctly, @Drover has a separate solar controller for the portable panel and has a heavy duty lead going directly from the battery to an Anderson plug which he connects to the output from the solar controller for the portable panel. The fixed and portable panels are thus isolated by their respective controllers and their is therefore no need to fit BLOCKING diodes.

Also, as regards the rooftop panel being in the shade, there is also the possibility of leaves and bird poo impacting solar performance.

cheers
Mike

Agreed @mikerezny . Separate controllers have their own BLOCKING diodes.
 

Drover

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Hi @Drover , "you lot" seems to get your conscience going a bit!! Are you feeling guilty? Getting left behind with the crowd! Now you know what you have in solar power, you can upgrade to a MPPT controller so you can do more off grid. With a 20% plus increase in output, you could leave the 120 W panel permanently connected to vehicle to run the Engel!!.

Actually been going to check it out since before you ventured into this realm of wonder called Expandasdownunder, somethings just take a bit of time...............Have no intention of forking out a heap of hard earned on a new controller since the current system covers the job, the 20% might be true but in reality would it be worth the cost, I think the 2 panels set ups compliment each other and provide me with a better off grid outcome than having just roof top units, my portable has often been providing good power when the roof top has been down to near zilch because of shadow from tree's or hills, I can get more hours of good power from the portable and while 3 MPPT controllers would be great to get the most from my panels it aint gonna happen................Actually can't see any major hassle with having a portable, I just lift from boot and 2 mins later it's up and running but the Coromal has a huge boot so no dramas like in a small rig...........Sat dish is a bigger hassle.........Next run I might even do some checks and record some data , maybe...................Actually winter would probably be the biggest drain on the power system having the heater going all night so the next upgrade will be more storage so I don't drain too much overnight and as cloudy, rainy days, winter sun gives less output that just means the LRPS gets a work out to cover the loss....................
 
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Boots in Action

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Actually been going to check it out since before you ventured into this realm of wonder called Expandasdownunder, somethings just take a bit of time...............Have no intention of forking out a heap of hard earned on a new controller since the current system covers the job, the 20% might be true but in reality would it be worth the cost, I think the 2 panels set ups compliment each other and provide me with a better off grid outcome than having just roof top units, my portable has often been providing good power when the roof top has been down to near zilch because of shadow from tree's or hills, I can get more hours of good power from the portable and while 3 MPPT controllers would be great to get the most from my panels it aint gonna happen................Actually can't see any major hassle with having a portable, I just lift from boot and 2 mins later it's up and running but the Coromal has a huge boot so no dramas like in a small rig...........Sat dish is a bigger hassle.........Next run I might even do some checks and record some data , maybe...................Actually winter would probably be the biggest drain on the power system having the heater going all night so the next upgrade will be more storage so I don't drain too much overnight and as cloudy, rainy days, winter sun gives less output that just means the LRPS gets a work out to cover the loss....................

Hi @Drover , from what you have said, you do seem to have things under control - much more sophisticated than my simple arrangement. Keen to hear how your panel and PWM controller recharge battery after running down with the Engel. Don't forget to turn it off!! Step forward again with the leaders and I will follow you.
 
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Drover

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Well don't hold your breath waiting, may take awhile for me to build up steam to get around to it, need to put Ute in shed and run extension lead from Engel and plug it into van, just need to be motivated. Engel plugs into Ute with Anderson, so my Anderson extension lead from Engel plugged into one of the Anderson plugs on van will work and I don't have to remove fridge from Ute....My Anderson's on Ute and Van can import or export power makes life so much simpler....................My set up is just simple and uncomplicated each part is an individual compact unit, the van and Ute nothing to be done by me and work 24/7 ( I hate that term) the portable is a couple of minutes but they all can be interconnected by a simple plug an play cable when more grunt required.........I like stuff that once set up I don't have to do anymore................I prefer to just wander around but feel free to follow at leisure.
 

Boots in Action

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Well don't hold your breath waiting, may take awhile for me to build up steam to get around to it, need to put Ute in shed and run extension lead from Engel and plug it into van, just need to be motivated. Engel plugs into Ute with Anderson, so my Anderson extension lead from Engel plugged into one of the Anderson plugs on van will work and I don't have to remove fridge from Ute....My Anderson's on Ute and Van can import or export power makes life so much simpler....................My set up is just simple and uncomplicated each part is an individual compact unit, the van and Ute nothing to be done by me and work 24/7 ( I hate that term) the portable is a couple of minutes but they all can be interconnected by a simple plug an play cable when more grunt required.........I like stuff that once set up I don't have to do anymore................I prefer to just wander around but feel free to follow at leisure.

Hello @Drover , I like the last two sentences too. Set up and then relax with a coldie and watch the rest of the world go by. It is not a good time if you are constantly HAVING to remember to adjust everything.
Sure. Do things at YOUR own pace, but don't get too far behind as the world is now moving at a faster and faster pace, much more than a few years ago!
 
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Boots in Action

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Hello there @Jack Greenwood and welcome to the forum. There is a wealth of info on the thread "solar panel" and a lot of it has been updated in the last few months. Most of your questions you have raised have been covered there. However, in short, there should be no problems in connecting a couple of AGM batteries in Parallel in your 2008 Expanda. The amount of solar panel power/panels you need will depend on what your electrical demands are . Obviously, you have to have some idea of how much 12 volt power you will use and how much solar generation you will need to replace this usage. There is a posting by one of the members to assist you in this calculation. After you know this, something can be worked out. The technical hook up is a different story. Just ask and I am sure excellent advice will be forthcoming to suit your needs. Cheers. @mikerezny, your advice may be required too.
 

Boots in Action

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Hi @Boots in Action,
would you be able to edit this post to clearly show before your results exactly the solar panels setup you were using?

I am still of the opinion that something is still not right.

Here is my challenge to you:
Take one of your solar panels, say the 200W one.
Given enough sunlight, that panel SHOULD produce 200W at the rated Vmp and Imp stated on the panel.
It should also deliver Voc and Isc as per the panel specification.

Now, if your MPPT controller is functioning correctly it should be able to deliver 190W (95% of 200W) into your battery.
Assume charging voltage of 14.4V, that would be 13.19A. In that case, your solar panel voltage should be close to Vmp and the solar panel current should be close to Imp.

What I am interpreting is that you have 380W of solar, an MPPT controller capable of 95% efficiency. You should be getting 361W into your batteries. But the system is delivering much much less than that.

So the challenge is to show that, for each panel, you can deliver 95% of the panel performance through your MPPT controller to your batteries.

In my, admittedly small solar panel, with Pmax = 40W panel, Vmp = 18.88V, and Imp = 2.16A, in bright sunlight, and with the controller in equalising (14.4V), I regularly see 2A or over going into the battery. Naturally, with my PWM controller, the best I can ever get will be somewhere between Isc = 2.22A and Imp = 2.16A. It seems that my controller will stay in equalising mode for about 20-30 minutes. I haven't actually timed it.
The current drops off once the battery gets close to charge, and also when the controller goes to float (13.8V).

Now winter is over there will be stronger sunlight, so I will be able to look more carefully at my panel and controller performance.

By the way, have you now got your new fancy clamp meter?

cheers
Mike

Hi @ Mikerezny and @ G Daddy , did some more testing on "rated " 200 W panel, which appeared to be down on efficiency as noted by yourselves. Some vital things were revealed today during the test . When first placed in sun (ambient approx 30C), Ocv was initially 18.9 V (rated at 19 V @ 25C) but slowly dropped to 18.2 V after about 10 minutes. Open circuit current was 8.9 A (rated @ 10.9 A @ 25C). However after approx 20 mins, voltage had dropped to 17.9 V BUT current had increased to 10.3A !! It was really pumping it out even at 30C. So appears to be reasonably good. Should give me more for my MPPT controller to work on.
One of the reasons I think it had a poorer showing before was because of the ANGLE towards the sun. I made some new supports as the other two single ones were a bit flimsy and the angle is now different to before - more upright - and hence better attitude to solar rays. A previous post by an educated member had a list of all the optimum angles for different cities and areas for various times of the year. So this obviously has a considerable bearing on output of panels.
Summing up:- Heat on panels definitely REDUCES voltage and correct angle towards the sun OPTIMIZES current.
Next test will be the affect of shading on part of, and one full panel. With the new 15sq060 Schottky diodes fitted , it will be interesting to see the results.