Solar The Solar Panel Thread

[Boots in Action]

That would be a bit like beating up on the Ambos when they arrive for your heart attack. Having all you guys bouncing off each other, and providing your time and expertise to the rest of knuckle heads is priceless.

Opportune time to pass on a sincere thanks. Im a lot wiser for your work and I sure in the short and long term my money will be better spent.

Three cheers to all of you "tech heads", now back to work with the lot of ya



Before I stated looking at adding a couple of panels to my van @Dobbie I would have agreed with you 100%, but its increasingly looking like a topic that simply cant be "skimmed" over, there seems to be too many compounding issues that are effected by every decision. A single small wrong turn, wrong connection, missing diode could end in disaster as @Moto Mech may have discovered previously. I dont have the room in my head to absorb all the tech stuff, but I think Id be foolish with my money if I didnt take heed. (dang it ... )

I much prefer to get @mikerezny to pop down to the factory and install and wire up my new panels and controller, after he's found the appropriate ones I need .... (that's not a throw away statement @mikerezny )

Hi @Crusty181 , I think that your throwaway line to @mikerezny would be a good idea. He is a great "tech head" and you would certainly get the best setup with him. I don't know about his charges though - could be expensive!! He has great tastes especially in cider. Make sure he does the work BEFORE having his just reward.

 

[Crusty181]

Hi @Crusty181,
I would be quite happy to come over and give you a hand.

cheers
Mike

I appreciate the offer. I give you a call up after I get the panels and see how your placed for a catch up

 

[mikerezny]

I appreciate the offer. I give you a call up after I get the panels and see how your placed for a catch up

Hi @Crusty181,
I have sent you a PM.

When do you expect to get the flexi panels and solar controller?

cheers
Mike

 

[geedub]

Any ideas on the best price/performance panels to use?

I want to add 400-500W of panels to my basestation. I'll be running them in series with a 50A MPPT controller and charging a 150AH battery and I have a spare 100AH if that isn't enough. I've been looking at panels from Sun Yee/Vic offroad as they seem well priced, I'll probably buy the 220W black panel.

I'm open to suggestions of others and any experiences with these.

 

[Crusty181]

Hi @Crusty181 , I think that your throwaway line to @mikerezny would be a good idea. He is a great "tech head" and you would certainly get the best setup with him. I don't know about his charges though - could be expensive!! He has great tastes especially in cider. Make sure he does the work BEFORE having his just reward.

I do some of my best work when my eyes are looking in different directions :very_drunk:

 

[Boots in Action]

So, I notice near all slim solar panels now say not to wire in in series or parallel to avoid damage.
After wrecking $1200 worth of thin panels before, I dont want to go down that path again. But want thin panels due to weight savings.
How are people wiring them in now, still in series or parallel or seperate controllers for each panel?

Hi @Moto Mech , I have just been looking at an Ebay site for 12 volt flexible panels sold by Vicoffroad at Laverton Vic and a few others too. I notice their warning about not connecting panels in PARALLEL or SERIES because of the risk of damage. I also note that they advise one NOT to glue or velcro panel to surface and TO ALLOW SPACE UNDERNEATH TO ALLOW PANEL TO BREATHE!! Looking at the pictures of the panels, it becomes clear why they do not want you to connect in PARALLEL or SERIES - there is NO SOLAR CONTROLLER provided with panels!!! And the message about heat build up is clearly an issue to be considered. Cool them down with water to maintain output!!! I wonder how many persons ignored their warnings, without knowing what other modifications were needed to avoid potential damage to panels. It is all coming to light now after your bad experience. Thanks for bringing it up so others can learn what to do.

Great advertising isn't it?? Buy two panels (without controllers!!) but don't connect them together!!! NOT!!!

@G Daddy , you missed all the drama whilst you were away doing tests on shading of panels and your MPPT Epever controller. Anything to report??

 

[Crusty181]

Hi @Moto Mech , I have just been looking at an Ebay site for 12 volt flexible panels sold by Vicoffroad at Laverton Vic and a few others too. I notice their warning about not connecting panels in PARALLEL or SERIES because of the risk of damage. I also note that they advise one NOT to glue or velcro panel to surface and TO ALLOW SPACE UNDERNEATH TO ALLOW PANEL TO BREATHE!! Looking at the pictures of the panels, it becomes clear why they do not want you to connect in PARALLEL or SERIES - there is NO SOLAR CONTROLLER provided with panels!!! And the message about heat build up is clearly an issue to be considered. Cool them down with water to maintain output!!! I wonder how many persons ignored their warnings, without knowing what other modifications were needed to avoid potential damage to panels. It is all coming to light now after your bad experience. Thanks for bringing it up so others can learn what to do.

Great advertising isn't it?? Buy two panels (without controllers!!) but don't connect them together!!! NOT!!!

@G Daddy , you missed all the drama whilst you were away doing tests on shading of panels and your MPPT Epever controller. Anything to report??

A number of flexi panel sellers on eBay sell the panels in sets of 2 and 4 panels. I would guess given a little breathing space, the alum backing sheet on the flexi panel would act as a heat sink and bleed off heat build up quite well.

 

[Boots in Action]

A number of flexi panel sellers on eBay sell the panels in sets of 2 and 4 panels. I would guess given a little breathing space, the alum backing sheet on the flexi panel would act as a heat sink and bleed off heat build up quite well.

Hi @Crusty181 , and probably act as a heat reflective shield from heat underneath panel too. It seems your air gap will be worthwhile.

 

[Miket351]

Hi Guys

I am in the process of purchasing a Jayco Starcraft 19-61-3 OB with 150 panels. I will be camping majority in caravan parks and probally free camp for around 3-5 days at a time in between powered sites.

I currently have a Baintech power top that is portable and connected to my main battery via Anderson in my Hilux this powers a 38 lt Engel fridge. (https://www.baintech.com.au/leisure-products/battery-trays-boxes/product/1460-baintech-powertop) when travelling.
I have a portable 120w folding glass solar that has an attached solar controller that can be bi-passed via supplied Anderson cables.

My questions are for the best setup.

1. When camping should I connect the Baintech directly to the battery in the caravan via an anderson which I will install (I will install two Anderson plugs one on the drawbar the other at the back of the van). Connect the solar to the Baintech directly (the Baintech has an internal solar controller) then connect the portable fridge to the Baintech or two the second Anderson on the caravan . Will this affect the batteries in either way trying to charge discharge each other?

2. If installing an Anderson to the caravan can I then connect the portable solar with controller attached which will supply additional power to the caravan then I can return the Baintech to the Hilux along with the fridge for day expeditions this way the caravan battery gets extra charge during the day and the Baintech receives charge through the Hilux when driving.

Your Opinions would be appreciated.

 

[Boots in Action]

Hi Guys

I am in the process of purchasing a Jayco Starcraft 19-61-3 OB with 150 panels. I will be camping majority in caravan parks and probally free camp for around 3-5 days at a time in between powered sites.

I currently have a Baintech power top that is portable and connected to my main battery via Anderson in my Hilux this powers a 38 lt Engel fridge. (https://www.baintech.com.au/leisure-products/battery-trays-boxes/product/1460-baintech-powertop) when travelling.
I have a portable 120w folding glass solar that has an attached solar controller that can be bi-passed via supplied Anderson cables.

My questions are for the best setup.

1. When camping should I connect the Baintech directly to the battery in the caravan via an anderson which I will install (I will install two Anderson plugs one on the drawbar the other at the back of the van). Connect the solar to the Baintech directly (the Baintech has an internal solar controller) then connect the portable fridge to the Baintech or two the second Anderson on the caravan . Will this affect the batteries in either way trying to charge discharge each other?

2. If installing an Anderson to the caravan can I then connect the portable solar with controller attached which will supply additional power to the caravan then I can return the Baintech to the Hilux along with the fridge for day expeditions this way the caravan battery gets extra charge during the day and the Baintech receives charge through the Hilux when driving.

Your Opinions would be appreciated.

Hello @Miket351 and welcome to the forum. If you have read some of the earlier posts, you will read that @mikerezny and I are seen to be "tech heads", but that does NOT mean we have ALL the answers.
However, I will try to answer a lot of your queries/problems with my own ideas. Firstly, it is NOT advisable to connect a Gel battery in parallel with an AGM battery (which is what you can normally expect to be fitted to your new van). The reason is that they have different characteristics as far as charging voltage and float voltage. Gel batteries NEED to be charged differently to AGM types. So do NOT connect your Baintech to the van battery. The normal max charge voltage for a Gel Battery is approx 14.3 volts and for an AGM is 14.7 volts and float voltage is 13.1v and 13.8v respectively. It may work but your AGM will try to bring the Gel up to its voltage or the Gel will discharge the AGM to the lower voltage of the Gel. Too much charging of Gel batteries dries them out and shortens life expectancy!! Gel batteries need special chargers (smart chargers with various settings) to be properly charged. When in powered sites, you could charge the Baintech from a 240v outlet with such a "smart" charger. The charging unit in the van is also not optimal for charging AGM batteries as it only charges to 14.1 volts - okay for your Gel, but far short of optimum for your AGM battery.
Suggestion only: Connect up the solar controller to the Baintech to charge the Gel battery. However, make sure solar controller has a setting for charging Gel batteries at the lower voltage, or if not, you should alter the settings to suit the battery type. The Engel can be connected to the van battery OR the Baintech unit but NOT both together!!
Problem 2. If you wish to charge the Baintech with your own solar panel, you MUST bypass/disconnect solar controller on back of panel so all solar power is controlled by the Baintech controller (properly set to charge Gel batteries too!) Not 2 controllers in series fighting each other!
You can connect your portable solar panel to supplement your van battery/ies, but you must bypass/disconnect the controller on back of panel. It is preferable to wire the input of the portable solar panel in parallel with the input of the 150 watt panel on roof of van rather than straight across the battery terminals in the van . Not good having 2 controllers trying to charge battery/ies and supply varying current demands.
Suggest that you do some research on this forum as there has been a lot of discussion lately Also have a look at googling AGM battery and GEL battery and also the advantages and disadvantages of both. If you have further questions or need clarification, post your questions. There is plenty of expertise on this forum. Good luck. @mikerezny , did I miss anything??

 

[G Daddy]

@G Daddy , you missed all the drama whilst you were away doing tests on shading of panels and your MPPT Epever controller. Anything to report??

Hi @Boots in Action , My trip was cut short, had to get back for a specialist appointment, however I did 1/2 days testing that did show up the series shading effects but could not get repeatable results, so I wont post results until I get consistent results. Will do more tests at home this week and post results

 

[G Daddy]

Hi @Boots in Action, received your PM but for some reason can't reply or send a new PM. maybe try again as PM seems to locked

 

[Boots in Action]

Hi @Boots in Action, received your PM but for some reason can't reply or send a new PM. maybe try again as PM seems to locked

Sorry @G Daddy , had wrong settings. please try again. Cheers

 

[Bellbirdweb]

View attachment 56932 So my new MPPT controller arrived today.

Reading through the manual, it seems to have all of the different programs for different battery types and lots more, and the dimemsions are even right so it will fit

Will need to wait till the weekend so I can fit it and the new inverter

So as it turns out this controller was a complete failure.

Looked ok, screen showed as though it was doing all the right things, but would not actually charge the battery.

So returned back to the eBay seller and refund received, Epever controller now ordered.

 

[mikerezny]

Looked ok, screen showed as though it was doing all the right things, but would not actually charge the battery.

Hi @Bellbirdweb,
this is intriguing!

If you have time, could you explain a little more about what were the right things the controller seemed to be doing and how you determined it was not charging the battery?

Was the controller able to display battery volts and current into the battery. If so, what were the values?

Otherwise, did you also use a voltmeter to measure the battery voltage?

kindest regards
Mike

 

[Bellbirdweb]

Hi @Bellbirdweb,
this is intriguing!

If you have time, could you explain a little more about what were the right things the controller seemed to be doing and how you determined it was not charging the battery?

Was the controller able to display battery volts and current into the battery. If so, what were the values?

Otherwise, did you also use a voltmeter to measure the battery voltage?

kindest regards
Mike

Hi @mikerezny, very puzzling indeed.

When I connected the controller I made sure I had a reasonable load pulling from the batteries to pull the voltage down enough (the controller required a 5v difference to start up).

On the controller display I had 19v showing as the panel voltage and 12.7 as battery voltage. The controller also showed as OFF.

As the voltage dropped down to 12.4, the controller changed to BULK indicating it should have been charging, however voltage continued to drop (I had 8A of load).

Panel voltage was continuing to show 19-20v, battery voltage continued to drop but controller showed 0A and 0W and I confirmed with a multimeter the values showing on the drifter were correct.

I disconnected, checked cabling several times, ran the battery down below 12v etc and it never changed.

Controller showed bulk but did not charge.

Not sure if it was just a faulty unit, but I went back to the seller, who asked all the right questions didn’t have any suggestions and accepted it as a return.

Rather than persist with a replacement I decided to go with the Epever as it seems pretty popular.

I will mount the remote where my current controller is, and the main controller unit down near the batteries.

 

[mikerezny]

Hi @mikerezny, very puzzling indeed.

When I connected the controller I made sure I had a reasonable load pulling ff Tom the batteries to pull the voltage down enough (the controller required a 5v difference to start up).

On the controller display I had 19v showing as the panel voltage and 12.7 as battery voltage. The controller also showed as OFF.

As the voltage dropped down to 12.4, the controller changed to BULK indicating it should have been charging, however voltage continued to drop (I had 8A of load).

Panel voltage was continuing to show 19-20v, battery voltage continued to drop but controller showed 0A and 0W and I confirmed with a multimeter the values showing on the drifter were correct.

I disconnected, checked cabling several times, ran the battery down below 12v etc and it never changed.

Controller showed bulk but did not charge.

Not sure if it was just a faulty unit, but I went back to the seller, who asked all the right questions didn’t have any suggestions and accepted it as a return.

Rather than persist with a replacement I decided to go with the Epever as it seems pretty popular.

I will mount the remote where my current controller is, and the main controller unit down near the batteries.

Hi @Bellbirdweb,
you certainly did enough sanity checks to determine that it was most probably a faulty controller.

One other test you could try BEFORE you connect the solar panels to your Epever, is to measure the solar panel S/C current and confirm that the current is close to the combined Isc rating of the panels. That would eliminate the possibility of a fault in the panels or wiring.

best wishes
Mike

 

[Bellbirdweb]

Hi @Bellbirdweb,
you certainly did enough sanity checks to determine that it was most probably a faulty controller.

One other test you could try BEFORE you connect the solar panels to your Epever, is to measure the solar panel S/C current and confirm that the current is close to the combined Isc rating of the panels. That would eliminate the possibility of a fault in the panels or wiring.

best wishes
Mike

Thanks, I’ll do that, but given it all works fine with the standard PWM controller, I’m fairly confident that the panels are ok.

 

[mikerezny]

Thanks, I’ll do that, but given it all works fine with the standard PWM controller, I’m fairly confident that the panels are ok.

Hi @Bellbirdweb,
Yes, all your testing does point to the new controller being faulty. Every extra test you can do narrows down the possibilities for where the problem is or is not.

I once spent a couple of days trying to get a very expensive character generator working in a television production house and the editors were on my back to get it fixed because the production suite was pretty well out of action without it. Did a 24 hour stint. First obvious check was power supply voltage. 5V, so all fine, move on. In the end, out of frustration with inconsistencies in my testing, I put an oscilloscope across the power supply. 5V DC was there all right but a whopping great 100Hz hum on it as well. The problem was that the huge power supply capacitors had dried out. New capacitors and I was flavour of the month (at least until the next problem come along!). I know I digress and that this has nothing to do with solar panels. In several years time I will still digress but by then I won't even know I am am doing it!

I hope your new MPPT controller works as expected. The good bit is that you got a full refund without any hassles.

cheers
Mike

 

[Bellbirdweb]

Hi @Bellbirdweb,
Yes, all your testing does point to the new controller being faulty. Every extra test you can do narrows down the possibilities for where the problem is or is not.

I once spent a couple of days trying to get a very expensive character generator working in a television production house and the editors were on my back to get it fixed because the production suite was pretty well out of action without it. Did a 24 hour stint. First obvious check was power supply voltage. 5V, so all fine, move on. In the end, out of frustration with inconsistencies in my testing, I put an oscilloscope across the power supply. 5V DC was there all right but a whopping great 100Hz hum on it as well. The problem was that the huge power supply capacitors had dried out. New capacitors and I was flavour of the month (at least until the next problem come along!). I know I digress and that this has nothing to do with solar panels. In several years time I will still digress but by then I won't even know I am am doing it!

I hope your new MPPT controller works as expected. The good bit is that you got a full refund without any hassles.

cheers
Mike

I do a lot of fault finding in my work, albeit these days mostly software faults but often hardware as well.

It’s easy to go straight to complex faults and miss the simple ones. It’s a bit of an art being able to step through methodically to find the fault.

These days it’s becoming a lost at with most people just wanting to replace rather than repair.

Very happy with the seller (apart from having a non working product) was quick to respond and provided an easy refund.

I must say, the few times I’ve had to do this have always been pretty seamless.