Solar The Solar Panel Thread

Crusty181

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Feb 7, 2010
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Hi @Crusty181,
Yes, I was only discussing the 5ft run from the controller to the battery.

If you want, I can make an estimate of what cable you need to go from the solar panels to the regulator after you decide whether you want to wire the three panels in series or parallel. AND an estimate of the length of the cable run.

Actually, using the website cable size estimator, you won't need me. But I am still happy to help.

cheers
Mike
Thanks Mike I appreciate any and all advice. Im leaning heavily toward series connection. The existing panel is across the rear of the van behind the rear roof hatch. The 2 x flexi's terminal boxes will be less than 1.5mtrs each from the existing panels terminal box .... so all up 4.5 mtrs from the panels to the controller

Using the "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing", connecting the panels in series would minimise the Amps to the controller, which would in turn require quiet a small gauge wire ?? Im guessing 3 x 150w in series would produce the same Amps (8) as 1 x 150w ???.

Im guessing the current panel side wire gauge would be either 8 or more likely 10b&s equiv; which at 10 would give me a 0.2v loss. Is that acceptable you think ?? (easier to use the existing)
 
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mikerezny

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Im guessing 3 x 150w in series would produce much the same Amps (8) as 1 x 150w ???.

Hi @Crusty181,
what are the Isc and Imp current ratings for the panels?

I would aim to have less than a 1V drop in the cable run from the roof to the controller. A 0.5V drop would be better.
Yes, you are correct. If you wire the three panels in series, the current will be the same as one panel. I would design the cable run assuming a current of Imp or Isc.

If you decide to run in Parallel, design for a current of 3 x Imp.

cheers
Mike
 
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Boots in Action

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Ive watched quite a few videos, and read a bit but I have to stop because I was frightened this info may well occupy so much of my limited brain space, and other important info may fall out the other side. I recall a video where the dude was say the Epever screen bar graph would only show half full right up to the point where the battery was fully charged. I suppose the Drifter will fill that void there, and hopefully once the system is all connected I wont need to monitor it as such, just test it every so often to make sure its all still doing whats its supposed to.


I have the one factory 150w glass panel on the roof via a PWM controller; the panel will stay put and the controller will swap out for the Epever. Im going to add 2 x additional flexi 150w panels to the roof, which are of identical specs to the existing glass panel; flexi panels are because the weight saving is significant. The potential issue with flexi panels is the inability to disperse the heat buildup from surface mounting, particularly in really hot areas. I read on here someone roof mounted flexi panels to core-flute roof sheeting but that type of roofing is only around 8mm. Ill reduce that heat issue by mounting my flexi panels on square corrugated polycarbonate pergola roofing. The polycarbonate sheet will give me an inch of airflow under the panel and ample adhesive surface area to both the van roof and the panel itself. The polycarbonate is very light weight and should bond quite well with a UV stable polymer based adhesive to both the fibreglass roof and alum solar panel.


My vans in at its biological parents getting some work done and I didnt check the available height in the cabinet before I purchased the Epever, so there's a very real possibility it may well be sideways mounted.

The reading and videos I seen first up stopped me dead in my tracks from launching into simply buying and adding additional panels. I would have ended up with panels of differing inputs and outputs all connected together in a confused Serial Parallel Universe and all running into a $25 PWM controller that had "MPPT" boldly and clearly emblazoned across the front, and I would have blindly thought I was kicking serious solar ar$e

I have 2 x AGM batteries connected in parallel.

Hi @Crusty181 , to comment on your notes, I shall start at:
para 1 - I agree, the minor problem? with the EPEVER is not important as your Drifter panel will give you all the info you need on voltage.
para 2 - Just because specs for flexi panels are quoted the same as the glass panel does not necessarily mean they will perform the same. From what I have read, they are not as efficient as fixed glass mono-crystal panels, but that should not be too much of a worry as long as OCV and Vm are close presuming you are connecting in SERIES. As @mikerezny has said, the output voltage will be the cumulative total, but current (AMPS) output will be limited to the panel with the lowest Im (current output under load). So the "weakest" panel will decide ampere available. Not so much of a problem when you have heaps of volts for your MPPT controller to convert to ampere current output. It is good that you have considered the heat build up under the panel - another great reason to connect in SERIES!!
para 3 - try to fix controller in a vertical position as the cooling fins at the back are designed to allow heat to flow from the bottom through the gaps at the back and out through the top. Sideways mounting may disrupt the air flow if the controller is working hard. I was lucky as I too did not consider height in placement either. From an earlier thread of mine, you can see from the picture how close it was!!
para 4 - Glad to hear that you have been following the SOLAR THREAD with all the technical talk. There is great value in all these discussions and a wealth of information fed in by many technically minded members. As @G Daddy said, this is a highly complex area when you really get into it, and feedback from the many members helps us all learn even more on how to get to get the very best out of solar panels and avoid costly errors or problems. I had to rely on a lot of high school teaching plus my own experiences in mucking around with 12V stuff, before putting my own equipment to the real field test. And I am still learning!! ,
para 5 - the amount of current that you and I are producing would be too much for flooded batteries as they would get hot and bothered and boil. There is no such problem with AGMs as they do not get hot and can handle huge amounts of input and you have two batteries to soak up the charge!! In fact, I have read that an AGM can be charged from zero volts DOD to 80% charged in 40 minutes with a 100 amp charger!! Not recommended at room temp, but possible. You will get nowhere near that but it would definitely be worthwhile to have a temp sensor placed in the battery container to modify charging voltage in hot weather. My controller has a thermistor with a short lead to connect into controller, which I extended so I could tape the sensor on top of the AGM battery. Before I did this, I ordered one suitable for an Epever thinking it would save me the hassle of splicing in the extra length, but alas, no good. Only cost about $ 8.00 on Ebay but will never use it. If someone wants it, just let me know. Cost NIL to members on this forum.
Hope all this make your connections easy and successful. Regards
 

Crusty181

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Feb 7, 2010
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Hi @Crusty181,
what are the Isc and Imp current ratings for the panels?

I would aim to have less than a 1V drop in the cable run from the roof to the controller. A 0.5V drop would be better.
Yes, you are correct. If you wire the three panels in series, the current will be the same as one panel. I would design the cable run assuming a current of Imp or Isc.

If you decide to run in Parallel, design for a current of 3 x Imp.

cheers
Mike
Isc - 9.2
Imp - 8.3
 

Bellbirdweb

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Im reading between the lines there @Boots in Action that the Epever is a reasonable unit. I found a local supplier of systems that recommended them also, but unfortunately for them they didnt think it important to respond to my emails. Seems to have worked out well for me, I just took delivery of the 40amp Epever Tracer A from an eBay supplier for $162. Transaction went very smoothly and freight was pretty quick.

@Bellbirdweb This is where I got mine http://stores.ebay.com.au/trustinchina/
Thanks @Crusty181, I've ordered a different controller so will see how it goes once it arrives
 

G Daddy

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Dec 6, 2015
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Hi @Crusty181 , just check the max system voltage rating on the flexible panels when connecting in series.
I'm going away for a few weeks and will do some tests on shading on series and parallel, my understanding is it depends on a whole cell or part of several cells being shaded on effect.
 

Crusty181

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Feb 7, 2010
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Hi @Crusty181 , just check the max system voltage rating on the flexible panels when connecting in series.
I'm going away for a few weeks and will do some tests on shading on series and parallel, my understanding is it depends on a whole cell or part of several cells being shaded on effect.
Thanks @G Daddy. The difference between the existing and flexi's is Vpm 0.1 and Ipm 0.02.

https://www.altestore.com/store/ is a great resource for me. They have a Youtube channel where they do practical test, and one test is series v parallel in shade. The results were pretty clear; parallel was more tolerant because shade only affected the parallel impacted by shade whereas series, the panel effected by shade effected the second panel also. The example demo they did was limited to shade, and didnt take into account any fancy panel wiring or bybass diodes etc
 
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Boots in Action

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Thanks @G Daddy. The difference between the existing and flexi's is Vpm 0.1 and Ipm 0.02.

https://www.altestore.com/store/ is a great resource for me. They have a Youtube channel where they do practical test, and one test is series v parallel in shade. The results were pretty clear; parallel was more tolerant because shade only affected the parallel impacted by shade whereas series, the panel effected by shade effected the second panel also. The example demo they did was limited to shade, and didnt take into account any fancy panel wiring or bybass diodes etc

Hi @Crusty181 , the site you mention above is pretty good in explaining things by demonstration. Have a look at the same site for a new topic about bypass and blocking diodes. It is simply explained where each is placed and what they do. You can ad that to your repertoire of information that may be useful. There is another site too on how to select the correct diode for voltage and current in a bypass situation for Schottky diodes. This takes in another dimension called "leakage current" at various temperatures and currents. I will send the link when I find it again to @ G Daddy and @ Bellbirdweb and ask them for further advice as they seem to be able to apply the complicated formulas that need to be sorted out, if one is going to do the job right.
 

Boots in Action

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Hi @Crusty181 , just check the max system voltage rating on the flexible panels when connecting in series.
I'm going away for a few weeks and will do some tests on shading on series and parallel, my understanding is it depends on a whole cell or part of several cells being shaded on effect.
Hi @Crusty181 , just check the max system voltage rating on the flexible panels when connecting in series.
I'm going away for a few weeks and will do some tests on shading on series and parallel, my understanding is it depends on a whole cell or part of several cells being shaded on effect.
 

Boots in Action

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Hi @Crusty181 , just check the max system voltage rating on the flexible panels when connecting in series.
I'm going away for a few weeks and will do some tests on shading on series and parallel, my understanding is it depends on a whole cell or part of several cells being shaded on effect.
Hi @G D
Hi @Crusty181 , just check the max system voltage rating on the flexible panels when connecting in series.
I'm going away for a few weeks and will do some tests on shading on series and parallel, my understanding is it depends on a whole cell or part of several cells being shaded on effect.
Hi @G Daddy and @Bellbirdweb , can you assist in unraveling the mysteries on this site?
www.st.com/resource/en/application_note/dm00034029.pdf
I understand that there are various losses with current leakage with Schottky diodes when used as bypass diodes in solar panels and that heat in the junction box has a definite effect on output and diode operation. This is also dependent on how much current is going through the diode and how the heat is dissipated with the wire itself acting as a heat sink. Really, really complex and too much for me!! What I would really appreciate is your advice on suggested rating for bypass diode in my set up. As you are aware, with my two panels in series, I am unlikely to exceed 40 volts and maximum current from EACH panel is not going to exceed 10 amps - probably only 8 or 9A at best. I have received a pack of 10 Schottky diodes (15sq045) rated at 15A and 45 volts. I also will be receiving another package of Sckottky (20sq045) 20A and 45 volts. In view of what is stated in above link, what would you recommend for best option as I do not want to burn out any diodes by having under-rated components in circuit. If I went further and connected three panels in SERIES as you and @Crusty181 are probably going to do, what rated diode would be applicable as voltage will then be closer to 60 volts?? I do hope you can advise me on this as it will apply to others as well. Thanking you in anticipation and sorry to be such a pest!!
 
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Moto Mech

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So, I notice near all slim solar panels now say not to wire in in series or parallel to avoid damage.
After wrecking $1200 worth of thin panels before, I dont want to go down that path again. But want thin panels due to weight savings.
How are people wiring them in now, still in series or parallel or seperate controllers for each panel?
 

Boots in Action

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So, I notice near all slim solar panels now say not to wire in in series or parallel to avoid damage.
After wrecking $1200 worth of thin panels before, I dont want to go down that path again. But want thin panels due to weight savings.
How are people wiring them in now, still in series or parallel or seperate controllers for each panel?

Hi @Moto Mech , you bring up a very good point and a warning for those thinking of installing flexi panels. We already know about the issue of dispersing the heat produced by the sun and generating power, not to mention the need for a good air gap underneath. I can see the problem if one starts to push more current down through the array, especially if one panel is shaded or partially shaded. The probability of "hot spots" developing with some solar cells burning out is certainly higher. Is this what happened with yours @Moto Mech ?? The advantage is low weight, but the disadvantage is that they are not as robust as fixed panels which have more material to "heat sink" /reduce heat build up, which is where the extra weight comes in.
If this cannot be overcome, then I guess the only other option is to have separate controllers for each panel.
 

Moto Mech

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Hi @Moto Mech , you bring up a very good point and a warning for those thinking of installing flexi panels. We already know about the issue of dispersing the heat produced by the sun and generating power, not to mention the need for a good air gap underneath. I can see the problem if one starts to push more current down through the array, especially if one panel is shaded or partially shaded. The probability of "hot spots" developing with some solar cells burning out is certainly higher. Is this what happened with yours @Moto Mech ?? The advantage is low weight, but the disadvantage is that they are not as robust as fixed panels which have more material to "heat sink" /reduce heat build up, which is where the extra weight comes in.
If this cannot be overcome, then I guess the only other option is to have separate controllers for each panel.
c
Not totally sure but guess I cooked em. I purchased them when thin panel first came out and asked the supplier a number of times, was it ok to glue them to a flat surface and each time thevanswer was yes.
They were mounted to the roof of our van for 3yrs no worries but in Tassie and under cover when not in use. We toured the mainland last year for 12mths and pretty much the first 2months away saw day time temps 38-42 every day.
Our 3way fridge(brand new and with propper venting/fans installed) had to be replaced due to being 'useless' in the heat. We purchased a compressor fridge and soon noticed the batteries were only just charging and checking panels found only 4a coming from both 150w panels(300w total). Could see no damaged/heat spots on panels but purchased 2 200w framed panels and never had another issue. I would use framed panels again but 6kgs compared to over 30kgs wins it for flexable panels.
Think Ill just run two controllers and mount panels on 'flat top' laserlite sheets or something similar.
So, Can anyone see a problem of running one panel and controller to each battery(two batteries, 2 solar panels and 2 controllers will be fitted to van) considering batteries will be joined in Parallel?
 

Bellbirdweb

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c
Not totally sure but guess I cooked em. I purchased them when thin panel first came out and asked the supplier a number of times, was it ok to glue them to a flat surface and each time thevanswer was yes.
They were mounted to the roof of our van for 3yrs no worries but in Tassie and under cover when not in use. We toured the mainland last year for 12mths and pretty much the first 2months away saw day time temps 38-42 every day.
Our 3way fridge(brand new and with propper venting/fans installed) had to be replaced due to being 'useless' in the heat. We purchased a compressor fridge and soon noticed the batteries were only just charging and checking panels found only 4a coming from both 150w panels(300w total). Could see no damaged/heat spots on panels but purchased 2 200w framed panels and never had another issue. I would use framed panels again but 6kgs compared to over 30kgs wins it for flexable panels.
Think Ill just run two controllers and mount panels on 'flat top' laserlite sheets or something similar.
So, Can anyone see a problem of running one panel and controller to each battery(two batteries, 2 solar panels and 2 controllers will be fitted to van) considering batteries will be joined in Parallel?
Having each panel with its own controller is the way to go.
 
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Boots in Action

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Having each panel with its own controller is the way to go.

Hi @Bellbirdweb , what is the situation with two different controllers working on the SAME battery bank?? Surely there would be some conflict as EACH controller would be trying to do its own thing in controlling voltage (bulk, absorption and then float) and adjusting current input to suit load as EACH sensed the need. I doubt that both would sense the same all the time.
 

Bellbirdweb

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Hi @Bellbirdweb , what is the situation with two different controllers working on the SAME battery bank?? Surely there would be some conflict as EACH controller would be trying to do its own thing in controlling voltage (bulk, absorption and then float) and adjusting current input to suit load as EACH sensed the need. I doubt that both would sense the same all the time.
Yes @Boots in Action there would be some conflict between the 2 controllers once the to the float stage, but the battery is charged by then so it's not really an issue.

The controllers should each have diode isolation, so no feedback issues.

I have a set of flexible panels ) 2x48w in parallel)that I can connect in via my Anderson plug with its own controller and then the 2 x 120w panels on the roof.

When I connect my flexible panels in and the battery is low, I see the amps jump up even though it's 96w vs 240w.

Will be interesting to see how it all goes with my new MPPT controller, although I rarely need the flexible panels.
 
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Boots in Action

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Yes @Boots in Action there would be some conflict between the 2 controllers once the to the float stage, but the battery is charged by then so it's not really an issue.

The controllers should each have diode isolation, so no feedback issues.

I have a set of flexible panels ) 2x48w in parallel)that I can connect in via my Anderson plug with its own controller and then the 2 x 120w panels on the roof.

When I connect my flexible panels in and the battery is low, I see the amps jump up even though it's 96w vs 240w.

Will be interesting to see how it all goes with my new MPPT controller, although I rarely need the flexible panels.


Thanks for the reply @Bellbirdweb . I thought that might be the case. I will be very interested in your feedback when you have fitted your MPPT controller. Have you had a chance to sift through the site I referred to about current leakage and effect of heat on Schottky diodes when used in bypass situations yet?? As diodes are very cheap- about $3.50 for a pack of 10 - I have looked at keeping my options open in that I MAY connect three panels in SERIES. In light of that possibility, I have ordered another set of Schottky diodes, this lot of 5 only cost $2.33. This latest lot are 15sq60 ( 15 A and rated to 60 V) that should cover any set up I may chose to have with my MPPT controller. Comments please.
 

Bellbirdweb

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Thanks for the reply @Bellbirdweb . I thought that might be the case. I will be very interested in your feedback when you have fitted your MPPT controller. Have you had a chance to sift through the site I referred to about current leakage and effect of heat on Schottky diodes when used in bypass situations yet?? As diodes are very cheap- about $3.50 for a pack of 10 - I have looked at keeping my options open in that I MAY connect three panels in SERIES. In light of that possibility, I have ordered another set of Schottky diodes, this lot of 5 only cost $2.33. This latest lot are 15sq60 ( 15 A and rated to 60 V) that should cover any set up I may chose to have with my MPPT controller. Comments please.
I did have a look, but it was way to techo, even for me, so I didn't get far into it.

I also haven't had a huge amount of experience with shottky diodes, so can't help out too much on your question sorry.
 

Moto Mech

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Continuing on from my above post(two solar panels controlled by seperate controllers to 2 batteries in parallel)
Would I benifit from two identical controllers? I already have a StecaPR2020, would it be better to purchase another one of these or would any decent PWM controller do.
Or simply buy 2 new MPPT controllers?
 

Crusty181

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Feb 7, 2010
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So, I notice near all slim solar panels now say not to wire in in series or parallel to avoid damage.
After wrecking $1200 worth of thin panels before, I dont want to go down that path again. But want thin panels due to weight savings.
How are people wiring them in now, still in series or parallel or seperate controllers for each panel?
Im installing them in series and I read the same thing on an eBay flexi panels listing, so I queried it with them and the broken english that came back seem to suggest that was an issue not applicable to the current panels. That could be just to appease a potential buyer. I also touched base with a bricks and mortar RV solar supplier here in Vic (solar4rvs.com.au) that deals in flexis, and they never mentioned anything adverse about heat in their reply

Many of the ebay listings sell them in multi panel sets anyway.

We're right on the vans weight limit, so Im going to give the flexi's a go. Im not buying another controller in any regard, so Ill see how the flexi's go.

The Greca profile polycarb is 16-29mm high, and the Trimdek profile 26mm, so Im hoping that's enough to give them some breathing space. I could double up the polycarb but I'd have to check the weight first so double sheeting doesnt defeat any weight saving