Overloading

[Dobbie]

To be fair Jayco in Brisbane were extremely helpful in answering my multiple questions as I attempted to make sense of the weight issue.

They do have the details for all the tow vehicles and, obviously, some real idea of the final weight of the van ordered.

One issue to me is the added weight to the tow vehicle of the extras...bull bars, winches, roof racks, boats, space cases, extra tyres, drawer systems, tow bars etc etc and the usual stuff we pack such as chairs, tables compressors and so on. These are often forgotten imho.

And then there's the added stuff to the van. Some essential like coffee machines! Others not such as essential but tossed in " in case I might need it".

I'm guilty and will mend my ways sometime in the future.

I've seen far too many overloaded setups and just wonder at times. It's all very well to complain about fuel consumption and loss of power on hills ...that comes with the territory when towing a largish van...but some added weights can and should be reduced.

It's all in the interests of our own safety and that of others and the comfort of knowing we've avoided something that could easily be avoided, with thought.


Oft the soapbox again.

That's the benefit of a forum such as this. Sanity and a genuine desire to understand and sort it out.

 

[Fabulous]

Also I remember always being told it was best to have a tug with more weight then your van..
honestly been a few articles regarding 3.5 tonne utes that cannot tow 3.5 tonne if close to GVM.it really should not be hidden in fine print.

I never could understand how the Pajero says its 3000 towing when over 2500 you need a 180 tow ball.
A 3 tonne van with a 180 towball does not seem balanced to me.

Then the elephant in the room can your tug safely pull 3000 up a hill
I really like a Pathfinder although I chatted to a few people who said not close to 3000 they would not.
It depends on the tug. Some can tow over what they are rated to and some you struggle to get close to max.
All of this does not help when you take a car for a test drive without a caravan behind.
Maybe I should ask the local dealer can I take the car with tow kit need to see how it tows the 22 up a hill

I'd be more worried about safely down the hill than up.

 

[davemc]

I'd be more worried about safely down the hill than up.

yes that as well.. as mentioned I felt the van push the car a few times and you think the weight of the Disco and us on board it would not as much
I use the auto to slow down on bigger hills instead of brakes.

 

[Crusty181]

EVERY major Town in WA has water mate, its only the GST you guys get, not all the water as well

at every Tourist Info place I have stopped at (major Towns), they have Dump points and water

Ha .. thanks @bigcol. Sorry, my comparison was more along the lines theres a tap every 10mtrs up the east coast. We have all the GST and all the water. I could travel almost the entire east coast without carry a drop of water.

Nice tip on the Tourist Info places ...

 

[Crusty181]

If anything, this thread, and many like this on here that I've seen are brilliant at raising awareness. It might not change too much for some, but if it makes people more aware of their responsibilities before setting off on the road, then that can only be a good thing.

When younger, people are naturally a little more bold and carefree, but once sprogs and grand-sprogs get on the scene, not to mention just a good dose of maturity, I think (some) people develop a decent amount of social responsibility and risk aversion. There are and always will be cowboys on the road.

I just wish the whole "Weight Debate" was made clearer at times of purchase (difficult when going non-dealer) and that van manufacturers are held a little more accountable for accurate weight plating.

Its not in their interest, but the dealers should at least have a list of minimum added cargo the average camper carries in both car and van to demonstrate the real end weights

 

[Crusty181]

Also I remember always being told it was best to have a tug with more weight then your van..
honestly been a few articles regarding 3.5 tonne utes that cannot tow 3.5 tonne if close to GVM.it really should not be hidden in fine print.

I never could understand how the Pajero says its 3000 towing when over 2500 you need a 180 tow ball.
A 3 tonne van with a 180 towball does not seem balanced to me.

Then the elephant in the room can your tug safely pull 3000 up a hill
I really like a Pathfinder although I chatted to a few people who said not close to 3000 they would not.
It depends on the tug. Some can tow over what they are rated to and some you struggle to get close to max.
All of this does not help when you take a car for a test drive without a caravan behind.
Maybe I should ask the local dealer can I take the car with tow kit need to see how it tows the 22 up a hill

Thats what I did Dave before buying both new car and new van. We had the 2009 Nav 4cyl and 2009 16.49. I borrowed a mates V6 Navara headed to the Jayco dealer, borrowed a big 2nd Sterling and towed it around for an hour or so

 

[davemc]

Mate said I can borrow his 2009 Pathfinder.. Although he thinks I be better finding a 550 version.. Although they are not cheap.
There is a ex demo Colorado7 up the road with towball pack.. maybe they never know is it in the fine print somewhere

 

[Crusty181]

Mate said I can borrow his 2009 Pathfinder.. Although he thinks I be better finding a 550 version.. Although they are not cheap.
There is a ex demo Colorado7 up the road with towball pack.. maybe they never know is it in the fine print somewhere

The 550 Pathfinder would pull the skin off your Starcraft, but I think you'd suffer with the ball weight and payload

 

[Pace]

The 550 Pathfinder would pull the skin off your Starcraft, but I think you'd suffer with the ball weight and payload

Agreed.

 

[davemc]

yes although you ask someone with a Pathy they say get a Pathy. Someone with a Patrol a Patrol etc etc
I think the 550 can tow more although had a lower towball and same payload. Always had a soft spot for the Pathfinder.

Sarah would still like a D4 even after all the small and $ problems with the D3..
If money was not a option we get a Cruiser or a new D4.

 

[AzHaych]

Sarah would still like a D4

Your wife is a smart lady Dave! D4!

 

[davemc]

Your wife is a smart lady Dave! D4!

Yes I know.. your D4 not too old now.. once its a few years old things start to happen Like when I got close to 40 I started falling apart
Each time we say it be good now. Then something.
Original plan was for me to get a car we use for towing and keep the D3 for school runs. So two cars we can fit all the family in as well no car swaps. The little Mini just goes and touch wood never had a problem with it in 8 years.
When we get time I take a few for a drive in the next few weeks.. Have to pick a day no kids and we both home

 

[bigcol]

If anything, this thread, and many like this on here that I've seen are brilliant at raising awareness. It might not change too much for some, but if it makes people more aware of their responsibilities before setting off on the road, then that can only be a good thing.

When younger, people are naturally a little more bold and carefree, but once sprogs and grand-sprogs get on the scene, not to mention just a good dose of maturity, I think (some) people develop a decent amount of social responsibility and risk aversion. There are and always will be cowboys on the road.

I just wish the whole "Weight Debate" was made clearer at times of purchase (difficult when going non-dealer) and that van manufacturers are held a little more accountable for accurate weight plating.

here here

Amen

totally agree.................

 

[bigcol]

Its not in their interest, but the dealers should at least have a list of minimum added cargo the average camper carries in both car and van to demonstrate the real end weights

your quite correct -
its not in the Dealers interest to tell the truth, but hide it in mumbo jumbo, and if you over load - your problem buddy

the comparison with the Pajero - it keeps coming up with the "sliding" tow scale - is down right ludicrous to me
it either tows 3500kg - or it dont
end of conversation

same deal with most of these "new breed" of dual cabs

ALL vehicles - cars, 4wd, scooters, whatever should have
Max Ball weight
Max towing capacity
Max GCM


none of this, if its 120kg ball weight then you can tow 7000kg, and if its 200kg ball weight then you can only tow 2000kg

 

[Drover]

Right thats enough already !!!!!!!!!!!!!

With all this weight stuff on numerous forums and the block heads waffling on about it in the Magazines, look out people you might have woken the Dragon..............................the powers that be might suddenly see there's $$$$$ to made here and instruct the scaly men to weigh and tally the old van driver, as any truckie will tell you it's not nice at all..............

If you are getting para about it all disregard the pamphlet on your van tare weight, put it on the scales and go from there, check it all don't just do a calculator check.

 

[Bluey]

Right thats enough already !!!!!!!!!!!!!

With all this weight stuff on numerous forums and the block heads waffling on about it in the Magazines, look out people you might have woken the Dragon..............................the powers that be might suddenly see there's $$$$$ to made here and instruct the scaly men to weigh and tally the old van driver, as any truckie will tell you it's not nice at all..............

If you are getting para about it all disregard the pamphlet on your van tare weight, put it on the scales and go from there, check it all don't just do a calculator check.

that's what I did and that's why I now have a cruiser no worries for me now I must say it dose feel better towing with a bigger car the prado did it well but just feels that much better with wider heavier and overall bigger car

 

[NoWorries]

OK Due to this thread i thought that I might go and weigh the van.
Total Weight Van and Car = 4.84 t
Total Weight Van = 2.38t
Hitch Weight 220 kg

Now my question is on the Van's plate it says Empty Ball Mass 157 and Max Ball Loading 204
so does this mean I need to reduce the hitch weight ??
This is after i removed the Spare wheel (such a silly position)

 

[Bluey]

OK Due to this thread i thought that I might go and weigh the van.
Total Weight Van and Car = 4.84 t
Total Weight Van = 2.38t
Hitch Weight 220 kg

Now my question is on the Van's plate it says Empty Ball Mass 157 and Max Ball Loading 204
so does this mean I need to reduce the hitch weight ??
This is after i removed the Spare wheel (such a silly position)

See my plate is way out what it realy is thats BS if you ask me they sell vans and the weights on a lot of them are not true you spend 50 grand on a van only to find you need to spend heaps more on a new tow rig as the one you have is not legal to tow it after you told them what you have if i could take them to cort i would as the plate on my van is pure lies 185 empty 223 full its 220 empty blows out for prado full so hence the cruiser i love the vsns but hate what they have done to me and others that dont find out the truth about there weight

 

[achjimmy]

yes although you ask someone with a Pathy they say get a Pathy. Someone with a Patrol a Patrol etc etc
I think the 550 can tow more although had a lower towball and same payload. Always had a soft spot for the Pathfinder.

Sarah would still like a D4 even after all the small and $ problems with the D3..
If money was not a option we get a Cruiser or a new D4.

Dave Weigh your van and all the sh1+ you take plus the stuff your added and then go and buy a landcruiser (or new patrol) and get the GVM upgraded! It's a big arsed van and you have three kids (or is it four?) and there only going to get bigger mate. Like I said Iam struggling to keep at 600kg on a 17 with two kids who don't take scooters etc. I'll bet your van loaded will weigh a lot?!?

We all know ideally you want the mass in the tow vehicle ? All these things coming out with 3.5t tow rating are just pretend I wouldn't want 3.5 t behind the cruiser and that weighs 4t loaded.

You don't want to only be legal but be safe.

 

[Drover]

While looking for something else I came across this link, it is a gem especially the bit about the Navara pay load and I think it explains things so most can get their head around.
https://practicalmotoring.com.au/ca...rating-may-not-really-be-a-3500kg-tow-rating/

So basically if you have a 3.5 t tow rating on your dual cab you probably really can only tow 2.5.....................................


and here's one for loading etc.....https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-advice/everything-you-need-to-know-about-towing-heavy-trailers/.