Solar The Solar Panel Thread

Boots in Action

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Just an FYI in case anyone wants to know.
Just had sign off on our new van last week and MPPT controllers are now an option at Jayco. $150 option to upgrade from PWM to MPPT.
The solar panels have also been upgraded to 180W as well from 160W.
Cheers and hope the weekend is treating you well.
PM335J instead of PM235BTJ
I hope they wire them in properly so one can see the whole picture, not like Jayco did with the standard Top Ray TPS 1230 PWM type. All it did was show you what the voltage of battery was and input current. Output current was not able to be shown because the load was never connected through the solar controller. If Jayco just connects up the MPPT controller to just the battery and solar panels, you are not that much better off other than more efficient conversion of solar input.
 

mikerezny

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I hope they wire them in properly so one can see the whole picture, not like Jayco did with the standard Top Ray TPS 1230 PWM type. All it did was show you what the voltage of battery was and input current. Output current was not able to be shown because the load was never connected through the solar controller. If Jayco just connects up the MPPT controller to just the battery and solar panels, you are not that much better off other than more efficient conversion of solar input.
Hi @Boots in Action,
I believe you will find that the PM335J is not a standalone MPPT solar controller like the TPS1230 PWM controller.
The Jayco part number, PM225J, is actually a Projecta PM300 which is a complete Battery Management System which has a 30A MPPT controller built in. Refer to my previous post and follow the link I provided to the PM300. All the documentation including the Instruction manual is available for download.

take care
Mike
 

Brente1982

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Hi,
seems that both of these are complete battery management systems from Projecta. Complete replacements for the Setec, and BmPro products offered in the past.

https://www.projecta.com.au/intelli-rv-products/pm200

https://www.projecta.com.au/intelli-rv-products/pm300

There is also a pm300BT which also talks via BlueTooth to via a smartphone app.

take care
Mike
Jayco aren't using like for like products though.
Projecta together with Jayco have put together hybrid versions for the vans. The The initial one for most vans was, the pm235, which was a modified version of the pm200. It came with the LCD screen, and Bluetooth which the pm200 didn't.

And I assume the Pm335 will be a hybrid version of the pm300. Not sure there is a need for the light controls. But who knows if they'll use them or not.
 
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Brente1982

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I hope they wire them in properly so one can see the whole picture, not like Jayco did with the standard Top Ray TPS 1230 PWM type. All it did was show you what the voltage of battery was and input current. Output current was not able to be shown because the load was never connected through the solar controller. If Jayco just connects up the MPPT controller to just the battery and solar panels, you are not that much better off other than more efficient conversion of solar input.
As mentioned above, it is a physical part of the battery management system.
Projects have also just developed a stand alone shunt to use with the power management systems that plugs into one of the ports in the unit.
This allows you to connect an inverter, or an external solar panel via the shunt, and have the input/output show accurately, along with accurate SOC on the LCD display
 
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Boots in Action

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As mentioned above, it is a physical part of the battery management system.
Projects have also just developed a stand alone shunt to use with the power management systems that plugs into one of the ports in the unit.
This allows you to connect an inverter, or an external solar panel via the shunt, and have the input/output show accurately, along with accurate SOC on the LCD display
Thanks @mikerezny and @Brente1982 for bringing me up to date on the latest BMS systems. Technology has moved on and it appears that Jayco are meeting these new demands for better technology too. All that matters now is to educate owners on how to use and understand what the readings mean. Unfortunately, all that good gear could be wasted on some, just as all the electronic stuff on the latest cars is disregarded.
 
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Boots in Action

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Hi @Boots in Action,
I believe you will find that the PM335J is not a standalone MPPT solar controller like the TPS1230 PWM controller.
The Jayco part number, PM225J, is actually a Projecta PM300 which is a complete Battery Management System which has a 30A MPPT controller built in. Refer to my previous post and follow the link I provided to the PM300. All the documentation including the Instruction manual is available for download.

take care
Mike
Thanks for the links Mike @mikerezny . Just had a quick look at the facilities and functions of these you beaut units. Rather grand if I may say so. They seem to have covered all of the deficiencies of previous and existing units that have been discussed on this forum, from battery temperature compensation when charging, different battery types and voltages, even voltage losses in cabling, plus a section on the need for a DC-DC charger for tugs with "smart" alternators. With one of these units, you need very little extra equipment. Very complex and certainly a lot of info for those not electrically inclined to absorb. The ONLY issue I saw was that the LVD was set by default at the very low (and IMHO) and useless setting of 10.5 volts. I did not see anywhere that this setting was user-adjustable. Pity. Also, if one was to have this great bit of kit and was going to be doing a fair bit of off grid work, it would be worthwhile to pay the extra and get the MPPT controller rather than accept the PWM contoller as standard. What a HUGE step up from the Setec ST20 Series III that I have at present!!!!!
 
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Drover

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Myself I would rather individual systems for proper off grid, these things have one little failure and everything drops off, great having failsafe's of course but if something has a hissy, it can shut the whole shebang down, fridge, lights, pump, dunny, charging everything............. at least with mine even if the solar dies I can simply change the load and still have 12v feed and a portable panel/controller as back up or use genny............
 

Crusty181

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Myself I would rather individual systems for proper off grid, these things have one little failure and everything drops off, great having failsafe's of course but if something has a hissy, it can shut the whole shebang down, fridge, lights, pump, dunny, charging everything............. at least with mine even if the solar dies I can simply change the load and still have 12v feed and a portable panel/controller as back up or use genny............
Im with you
 
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mikerezny

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Myself I would rather individual systems for proper off grid, these things have one little failure and everything drops off, great having failsafe's of course but if something has a hissy, it can shut the whole shebang down, fridge, lights, pump, dunny, charging everything............. at least with mine even if the solar dies I can simply change the load and still have 12v feed and a portable panel/controller as back up or use genny............
Hi @Drover,
I am always in two minds with this issue.
Take cars, I loved the "gold old days" of motoring when one could fix everything on a car. Each bit replaceable and not a huge effort or cost to do it.
But in those days, cars were serviced every 1,600kms, and many bits needed to be replaced: timing gears, oil seals, king pins, spark plugs, points, coils, fan belts, head gaskets, welsh plugs, rust, wheel bearings. Even engine replacements were common enough that Repco provided short, long exchanges.

Roll on and everything is controlled by an ICU. That is indeed worrying for me. But, the flip side is that there is almost nothing one can carry that will help when you break down since, given regular maintenance, the most important part, the ICU, is not really practical to carry as a spare.

So other than a tool box, the only thing I consider a necessity nowadays is to keep my RACV Total Care up to date and the phone number in the glove box.

So it is with the Setec, BmPro, Projecta BMS evolution. Most issues with the Setec, are related to patching together a variety extras necessary due to the changing requirements of campers and equipment. In comparison to these issues, there are relatively few failures of the Setec Unit itself.
Hopefully, the Projecta is a small positive step forward in having a better Battery management system incorporating the tug, solar, 240V, the van battery (in all its variants) and the 12V requirements of the van.

Still missing are provision of 240V off grid, automatic switch over of all power points from pole power to inverter, and generator autostart.

Only time will tell if the Projecta can supply these improved features in a manageable way with increased reliability.

As @Boots in Action alluded to in an earlier post, it needs to be done without increased complexity for users who are mainly interested in camping and not having to become power engineers to power the van off-grid.

take care
Mike
 

Drover

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But in those days, cars were serviced every 1,600kms, and many bits needed to be replaced: timing gears, oil seals, king pins, spark plugs, points, coils, fan belts, head gaskets, welsh plugs, rust, wheel bearings. Even engine replacements were common enough that Repco provided short, long exchanges.
I know what your meaning but my vehicles back in the 70's serviced every 10,000kms just like now and the only thing not needing changing nowadays is points, electronic ignition replacing them back in late 70's while now its mostly injection but plugs still need swapping out, all the rest of the things still get changed around and break much the same as the old engines, with the added extras being ECU, TCM, BCM's and a myriad of sensors now causing problems and often stopping you dead in the water.............. I actually find it easier to maintain the things in working order now, often breakdown being a dodgy sensor, cleaning or replacing is not a biggy while the various control modules are plug an play, many tend to be overawed by it all but its really quite easy, annoying at times though......

Big Mals individual units are recent tech, I have no idea how to fix them if they go bust but if one dies we don't loose everything, I have it set up with a bit of redundancy which these new all in one set ups don't, fine for van parks but off grid I think individual modules better plus a damn site cheaper to replace and upgrade..................

Your absolutely right about many now need it all to be done for them as they just dont want to know or even learn....

Heaven forbid if they start fitting vans out to make the GPO's live off an invertor, they don't turn stuff off at home so will be good to see how many days they can last off grid with that sort of set up, though some seem to think running a genny for 12hrs a day is being off grid, its not........... with EV's coming of course these huge vans will be a thing of the past...................
 
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Boots in Action

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Myself I would rather individual systems for proper off grid, these things have one little failure and everything drops off, great having failsafe's of course but if something has a hissy, it can shut the whole shebang down, fridge, lights, pump, dunny, charging everything............. at least with mine even if the solar dies I can simply change the load and still have 12v feed and a portable panel/controller as back up or use genny............
Fair comment, but that is "progress" . Or is it??? More and more complexities mean less people able to rectify problem when something goes wrong. This is particularly relevant when you are outside major centres. Like modern motor vehicles- if the engine doesn't run, you lose the power steering and power assist with the brakes amongst other things. A whole new ball game then!
 

Drover

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I like the period @mikerezny @Boots in Action between when we dumped points for electronic ignition and before cars started to think they know better................ Certainly don't want to go back to the camping days of the truck battery for lights, esky for fridge though I have had an Engel since 1978 and even that once had a Victa lawn mower engine powering a car alternator all in a frame, damn noisy thing keeping the battery charged to keep the beer cold.......... with vehicles having a very organic charging system for the aux battery, would have loved solar back then but that was just for hot water.... Weve been living with power assist brakes and steering for over 50 yrs so not a biggy, the thought of these new things with electric assist brake is a worry, no vacuum booster along with electric steering its a worry........ found now car chucks hissy fit often its the battery.......

Solar is the Ducks I reckon as it makes off grid so much easier ......................... cant see why these people still need gennies running for hours on end, nothing really needs 240 when you sit and think about it............... though women have this thing for hair dryers, I point to the sun.

Finally fitted this house panel I have had for ages onto the shed roof instead of portable, it nows makes sure my boat battery is kept fully charged using the old van Morningstar controller, it handles the voltage was hoping the TMS1230 would but its max is only 28v so its relegated to the portable back up again on van......... My near 20 yr old trickle panel seemed to be not keeping the boat battery up to speed so decided to use the house panel as a portable to test things out, seems to work so the trickle will be retired, volts still punching 21v not bad for a $20 buy back in 2000 or maybe earlier.....

shed panel.jpg...... its works so thats good......... its 1 mt wide and about 1800 long ... big hooah....total cost $40.
 
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Brente1982

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Ok, so I have my 4x 175w Victron panels. Have cut 50x25mm angles aluminium to 300mm lengths and have 2 per side. I have Sikaflex 252 to use for adhesive. What I am wanting to do is prepare and clean the aluminium and van roof surface to mount them. Short of purchasing the ridiculously expensive Sika cleaning and priming products, what have people used to prepare aluminium? Should I clean, rough up/etch the surface and then clean again? Should I rough up the roof surface in the spots where the mounts will be placed?
I do not intend to screw or rivet the panels to the brand new roof.
I will follow the Sikaflex advice of applying a spacer on the bottom of the mounts so as to leave the applicable adhesive gap that they recommend. In this instance I will be using 5mm sticky dots.
20211007_090534.jpg
 

Crusty181

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Ok, so I have my 4x 175w Victron panels. Have cut 50x25mm angles aluminium to 300mm lengths and have 2 per side. I have Sikaflex 252 to use for adhesive. What I am wanting to do is prepare and clean the aluminium and van roof surface to mount them. Short of purchasing the ridiculously expensive Sika cleaning and priming products, what have people used to prepare aluminium? Should I clean, rough up/etch the surface and then clean again? Should I rough up the roof surface in the spots where the mounts will be placed?
I do not intend to screw or rivet the panels to the brand new roof.
I will follow the Sikaflex advice of applying a spacer on the bottom of the mounts so as to leave the applicable adhesive gap that they recommend. In this instance I will be using 5mm sticky dots.
View attachment 67590
Take the coating off the alum with a flapper or sand paper, and clean both surfaces with your choices of non residue cleaner
 

Drover

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Goodness :oops: ..... all I did was rub the alloy bracket with a bit of sandpaper and wipe the colorbond roof and bracket with some metho, then a generous amount of some Sika Marine Adhesive and whacko on it went I did whack in a tek on each bracket just to be sure though, just enough to squeeze a bit out the edge to give a uniform amount under bracket........ hasn't blown off yet...... if its a colorbond panel be wary of what you try to clean it with.
 

Brente1982

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HAHA if I was applying a screw then I wouldn't be being so meticulous about the process.
It isn't colour bond, its the sandwich panel roof on the new vans. I believe its the same material used on the sides, so a fibreglass sheet?
 
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Crusty181

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Take the coating off the alum with a flapper or sand paper, and clean both surfaces with your choices of non residue cleaner
Not sure about %, any IPA cleaner should be fine. Ive never primed ally, so long as the poyurethane is UV rated, for external and fibreglass and ally. I did screw mine on.
 

Drover

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I realized you have a fibreglass roof after I posted @Brente1982 , I probably wouldnt sink a screw in either, depend on the panels location though.....but I would just give it a buff with metho to get any muck off...you could give it a light wet and dry before hand to take gloss off.....cant see the sense in a lot of these propriety cleaners .

PS. Lots of time to cure..
 
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Brente1982

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I realized you have a fibreglass roof after I posted @Brente1982 , I probably wouldnt sink a screw in either, depend on the panels location though.....but I would just give it a buff with metho to get any muck off...you could give it a light wet and dry before hand to take gloss off.....cant see the sense in a lot of these propriety cleaners .

PS. Lots of time to cure..
Hahaha yes, LOTS!