Solar The Solar Panel Thread

[Boots in Action]

Hi @Boots in Action,
I had a quick look at the regulator. A platinum one that looks similar can be picked up for less than $35. They also weigh only 142g. This seems way too cheap and too light to be a 10A MPPT controller. A 10A MPPT controller will need to have a reasonably sized transformer / coil inside to do the voltage conversion and this makes them larger and heavier than a PWM.

What leads you to believe it is a real MPPT controller and not yet another one from the family of PWM controllers? The front label says nothing about it being an MPPT controller.

The panel specification is Vmp of 18V and Imp of 11.12A. So in good sunlight at 25C one would expect 200W into an MPPT controller. With a load or a low SOC battery, and assuming 97% efficiency, as in the ad, one should expect 194W into a battery at around 14.4V = 13.47A. This would exceed the 10A rating of the controller.

But, for $150 for a 200W portable panel, 5m lead, and an anderson plug it still seems good value even with a PWM regulator.

At around 10A, I would suggest mounting the regulator close to the battery and ensure adequately sized leads between the panel and the controller to minimise the voltage drop.

cheers
Mike

Hi Mike @mikerezny and @Bellbirdweb and @Crusty181, and @G Daddy, have a look at this site NOT for its value at being a supposed MPPT controller at that price. But the diagram of the suggested connections of panels, battery and LOAD. And in the description, it states that the unit will disconnect that load if voltage is low and reconnect load when voltage has returned to "normal" level. Reading on, it appears that the settings are fixed (not user adjustable) but the protection is there. For that to work, the LOAD must go through the controller and internal connection would have to be in series with the load line. I believe that ALL solar controllers have some sort of LVD and LVR and this valuable feature is not used by most. It would only be useful if the LVD was HIGHER than the SETEC (how low can you go!!) or even the setting/s on your Waeco compressor fridges. It would in effect double the protection of the battery by disconnecting the load earlier. No more stuffed batteries when voltage dropped into the non re-coverable zone. Better to disconnect at 11.8 volts? than at 10.00 or 10.8 volts!!. This method is the way I have in my own electrical system and in my Daughter's van too. Worth following up and doing an article on it again.

Whilst at Caloundra a few weeks ago, I had a long conversation with a fellow camper. He was a very experienced "sparkie" and also worked with solar. I brought up the subject of placing the van load through the solar controller instead of straight off the Setec distribution connections (and relying on the very poor LVD of the Setec), and he concurred with me that as the two LVD's and LVRs switching were in fact in parallel, the highest LVD control would work first and disconnect load according to the setting on the solar controller. I have noticed however that the SETEC power supply (a relay of some sort??) also disconnects when the solar controller reached LVD. Of course any other loads connected directly across the battery terminals and not through the SETEC system would continue to draw current until the batteries were stuffed. Comments please.

/www.ebay.com.au/itm/100A-MPPT-Solar-Panel-Regulator-Charge-Controller-12V-24V-Auto-Focus-Tracking-BU/292703818611?hash=item442681d373:m:mQhk7V

 

[Boots in Action]

Hi @Boots in Action,
since you mentioned it was a platinum controller, I searched for one that looked like the one in your original link. Then I took the specs from the platinum one. I would be very surprised if either of them is a genuine MPPT. To cheap and to light. A 10A Victron weighs around 500g compared to only 142g. The difference is that a PWM controller only needs a mosfet to switch the current and they weigh bugger all. An MPPT controller uses a coil / transformer to convert the voltage.

cheers
Mike

I have to agree with you on that unless there is circuitry I am unaware @mikerezny

 

[Boots in Action]

I'll have you know, once upon a time I wanted to get into electrical stuff, mainly radios but decided to have a life of excitement and adventure, sometimes too much adventure mind.......some of the old stuff from ham radio study is still there ( thats the days when you built one to pass the test) but I don't speak tech babble as it puts me and others to sleep but babble on it does remind me of stuff forgotten sometimes.......

Got your adventures driving a 40 foot long bus through the outback eh @Drover , and plenty of time to think of other pleasures!!

 

[Boots in Action]

Hi @Boots in Action,
since you mentioned it was a platinum controller, I searched for one that looked like the one in your original link. Then I took the specs from the platinum one. I would be very surprised if either of them is a genuine MPPT. To cheap and to light. A 10A Victron weighs around 500g compared to only 142g. The difference is that a PWM controller only needs a mosfet to switch the current and they weigh bugger all. An MPPT controller uses a coil / transformer to convert the voltage.

cheers
Mike

Good Lord @mikerezny , having a look at solar controllers on Ebay, they ALL seem to call themselves an MPPT controller!! How the hell are those who don't know too much about this subject going to be able to confidently select a genuine article?? IF and a mighty big "IF", some of them do actually operate in MPPT function, then electronics has jumped a long way in a short time and I have been left behind OR, I have paid far too much for my controller. Mind you, a lot of the cheaper versions do not have display screens but some do. But most do not have user adjustable settings. I know the Epever and the LD Dreamtime are genuine MPPT controllers at a better price than the Vitron, but other than price, how would one know unless you could see inside and confirm a large coil transformer is there!!

 

[Drover]

Got your adventures driving a 40 foot long bus through the outback eh @Drover , and plenty of time to think of other pleasures!!

Not to mention even bigger trucks, travelling the world for the Grey Funnel Line in ships and for Red Roo Airlines in aircraft painted grey, making things go bang and sitting with your feet swinging in the breeze at 5000foot or skimming the tree tops............... driving the highways is more terrifying...but each to their own .

Can you just have a LVD which is similar fitment to a breaker switch that could just be inline on the battery ???

 

[Boots in Action]

Not to mention even bigger trucks, travelling the world for the Grey Funnel Line in ships and for Red Roo Airlines in aircraft painted grey, making things go bang and sitting with your feet swinging in the breeze at 5000foot or skimming the tree tops............... driving the highways is more terrifying...but each to their own .

Can you just have a LVD which is similar fitment to a breaker switch that could just be inline on the battery ???

Great lateral thinking there AGAIN @Drover . Looked them up on computer LOW VOLTAGE DISCONNECT MODULE and there they are. Even looked up on Ebay and also there and cheap as chips. Only trouble in the short time I had to look at some of them, they all seem to be fixed settings and 10 volts seems to be a favourite. I will keep looking to see if I can find one with variable settings. And then you may have found the solution for a lot of interested members as they are simply connected in line and have automatic disconnect and reconnect functions too. Great thinking there champ!! @mikerezny , what do you think??

 

[Drover]

Ha, I only followed your bit about them and thought one on the battery would be a KISS solution, I will have to have a look myself when I get the chance.....I thought a feed from the regulater load to a buss bar would be the only other way, be a pain though.

 

[Boots in Action]

Great lateral thinking there AGAIN @Drover . Looked them up on computer LOW VOLTAGE DISCONNECT MODULE and there they are. Even looked up on Ebay and also there and cheap as chips. Only trouble in the short time I had to look at some of them, they all seem to be fixed settings and 10 volts seems to be a favourite. I will keep looking to see if I can find one with variable settings. And then you may have found the solution for a lot of interested members as they are simply connected in line and have automatic disconnect and reconnect functions too. Great thinking there champ!! @mikerezny , what do you think??

Hello there "Tech Heads" @mikerezny , @Bellbirdweb , @G Daddy , @Crusty181, and maybe @Drover , and anyone else with electrical experience, I have followed up on @Drover 's idea and checked through a lot of Low Voltage Disconnect modules and finally came up with two on Ebay which have VARIABLE settings that the user can manipulate to suit their own arrangements. From Hong Kong and as cheap as - $8 odd plus and $9 odd plus. Those of you who can wade through the "Chinglish" and get some idea of the operation will see that this could be the panacea for most people. It is not as simple as the straight inline units with FIXED settings, but I think it would still be relatively easy to fit. It would of course be better in a plastic box, but they too are cheap and easily obtained. The only issue I see is the current they can carry - 10A at 30v DC. Maybe I am reading it incorrectly and maybe there are others that may be more suitable. Any member who is willing to throw more light on this subject , let them please step forward. It will be appreciated by all. As it is very cheap, I was going to order one for my own info and so be able to try it out on a practice circuit at home. The links are set out below, both for the same article, but the top one has more understandable "Chinglish".


www.ebay.com.au/itm/All-the-way-relay-module-delay-power-off-trigger-voltage-upper-and-lower-li-H2T8/292623459922


www.ebay.com.au/itm/All-the-way-relay-module-delay-power-off-trigger-voltage-upper-and-lower-li-X1Q1/253168385870

 

[Drover]

Amazing, never thought much about it before but a check of one of my fav shops and https://www.autoelec.com.au/baintech-low-voltage-disconnect-cut-out-deep-cycle~31322 and a look elsewhere http://www.snaptec.com.au/battery-low-voltage-disconnect.html I did quite like this unit .

so youv'e set me thinking , one day I might...............I just don't really care for some of the cheap chinese stuff, even if the boards on aussie gear is the same at least there can be a desk to bang on.



PS: my search programme found this, perfect and at my price BUT look closely out of stock...https://www.jaycar.com.au/low-voltage-battery-isolator/p/MB3678

 

[Boots in Action]

Amazing, never thought much about it before but a check of one of my fav shops and https://www.autoelec.com.au/baintech-low-voltage-disconnect-cut-out-deep-cycle~31322 and a look elsewhere http://www.snaptec.com.au/battery-low-voltage-disconnect.html I did quite like this unit .

so youv'e set me thinking , one day I might...............I just don't really care for some of the cheap chinese stuff, even if the boards on aussie gear is the same at least there can be a desk to bang on.



PS: my search programme found this, perfect and at my price BUT look closely out of stock...https://www.jaycar.com.au/low-voltage-battery-isolator/p/MB3678

Hi @ Drover, I too found these sites and they "seem" to fit the bill but are a lot more expensive AND do not really give you the greatest of choices in settings. I have attached the 10 various setting choices you have for BOTH brands - Baintech and Snaptec. Jaycar also has a similar product as a similar price. From these settings, one can see that the only reasonable setting (IMHO) is number 8., or maybe number 7 if you are prepared to let battery get that low. Still much better than the Setec at 10 volts. The only problem that I see is being disconnected until a re-connection is made at 12.8 volts. This maybe difficult to achieve in a short time, ( especially if loads stay connected!! ) and although there may be quite a large jump in voltage initially and charging voltage may push it up fast, the moment you placed the same loads on again, you could be disconnected again quickly if voltage could not be sustained and dropped down to the LVD setting. Obviously, the best way to go would be to switch off all loads and wait for voltage to be regained and slowly add the loads again, something I do not think many people would do or be prepared to do, even if they knew how. Maybe I am being too harsh, but I suppose it depends on what high drain loads are connected at the time. Personally, I like the idea of a 11.8v disconnect and a 12.2 volt reconnect (AGM 60% SOC) . Although fairly close, it would give me re-connected power very quickly and I would reduce loads to see that that happened, and to stay connected. In fact, the disconnection would serve as a warning to reduce loads as battery was getting too low.

 

[Drover]

Yep thats what I thought as well, I didn't care for such a high reconnect though in my case I was thinking more of the battery drain being caused by a charging malfunction which I hadn't noticed ie: solar covered in pollen or such ............... someone tripped over 240 lead and unplugged it etc as I don't have high drain devices...........

 

[Boots in Action]

Yep thats what I thought as well, I didn't care for such a high reconnect though in my case I was thinking more of the battery drain being caused by a charging malfunction which I hadn't noticed ie: solar covered in pollen or such ............... someone tripped over 240 lead and unplugged it etc as I don't have high drain devices...........

Thanks again @Drover for continuing to follow what I have been trying to achieve. It seems that you and I are on the same track - again!! Wonders will never cease!!

However, a eureka moment has occurred. While trolling through myriads of sites on Ebay under lots of different settings, I have found exactly what I was looking for, and at a price even you @Drover would be prepared to pay. The units come in a complete plastic box with the current voltage displayed on LED screen on the front. There are ADJUSTABLE settings for both LVD and LVR to suit every combination and can handle up to 20A. Easy connection of just 4 wires - two for battery input and two for load output. A very neat and accurate piece of kit. As the total output load on my Penguin is 20A limit and is fused that way, this is perfect for those who do not want to rely on the stupid LVD in the Setec. As I see it, the input for this unit would be connected across the battery terminals and the output would be connected across the load terminals in the Setec, just as I have done in my van. At a cost of only $7.50 to $8.50, I am going to order one for my own interest and will probably donate it to someone who could use it properly. It could be you or @mikerezny or @Bellbirdweb or @Crusty181 or anyone on this forum. Have a look and see what you think. I will not be able to give it a full test until late November when I get back from South American holiday.

www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-Battery-Low-Voltage-Cut-off-Switch-On-Protection-Undervoltage-Controller-gn/173329931686

 

[Drover]

That looks very similar to one I saw going for about $45 here in Oz, just can't recall where though......price is right.....if it will take 8 B&S it might be just the trick.....I await your test .................... due to a large hail bill I have been put on stoppage of wallet opening...$1,000 of excess for van and ute repairs, oh bum.

 

[millers]

@Drover and @Boots in Action thank you for the feedback and suggestions.

It will take me some time to digest and relate to my situation. Particularly in relation to tug charging vs solar. In general I would not look to run the tug to charge while stationary, but current travels does involve length distances per day. I need to consider the pros / cons of roof solar vs tug charging vs both in this situation and the ability to support DC fridge operation (3 way fridge installed). Unfortunately I have that DNA profile that wants to build systems that solves all problems (just in case) rather than those in front of me.

Will ponder and re-read and digest your post over the weekend.

Cheers
Stephen

 

[Boots in Action]

That looks very similar to one I saw going for about $45 here in Oz, just can't recall where though......price is right.....if it will take 8 B&S it might be just the trick.....I await your test .................... due to a large hail bill I have been put on stoppage of wallet opening...$1,000 of excess for van and ute repairs, oh bum.

Happy to keep you informed @Drover about this item. It will receive my usual thorough testing so I can be confident about recommending it to other members on this forum and how it works . It won't have to take 8 B&S though as it can only handle 20 amps for the load in the circuit it monitors, which is also the maximum of the fused line for the TOTAL of the 8 load outputs from my distribution box in my Penguin. Other (heavier?) loads would be (or should be) on a separate fused circuit from battery and would have to rely on the protection of the Setec LVD at 10 volts!!! But you would get a much earlier warning as the LVD on this new unit will disconnect /shut down its own circuit at your higher voltage setting, and well before the Setec LVD operated, so your battery is still protected.

Also, keep the insect spray handy to kill all the moths as they fly out of your wallet when you open it. Sad to hear that you had so much damage to van and tug. Try to keep smiling. Cheers

 

[Drover]

Yep @millers take time to think it out, many just over complicate their set ups, my base line is to keep the set up simple, KISS is the method, you want something that you don't have to fiddle with or stuff around with at all when your holidaying, just plug in and it does the job, so look at all the angles if you have to fiddle then its over complicated....my rig for free camping I park up, make it level and pour a coffee or a beer, the power runs itself with no input from me other than plugging in the portable if staying for awhile but then the solar on the roof keeps the battery sorted while travelling but to set that up from bare base is a bit of work and worth it if doing 80% free camping, but if doing mostly van parks I don't really think with a 3 way fridge there's really any need for the expense and hassle of a tug charge set up, just run a circuit for the fridge in fact if your ran 6 B&S you could probably piggy back the D250s off it on the van side if needed because leaving home or van park one would assume that the battery/s fully charged and wouldn't be sucking heaps of juice anyway, all these things come about when you sit and have a good think of your situation...........If you leave one park for another then the fridge is running from the tug, the battery should have been charged from park and will again at the next one.......................my solar and 240 chargers usually just trickle feed, if you need the full amount of juice most of the time that points to lack of storage and too much crap sucking power..

Anyway read stuff and think it out for what you really need, if money isn't a problem then you can go the whole hog but I do see a lot of fuel money spent on stuff that doesn't ever get utilized, if your setting up yourself it's easy to indulge but using a shop to do it becomes an expensive exercise and requires lots of thought, the salesmen is just that........selling you stuff you didn't know you needed.

 

[millers]

@Drover good words there and I agree. Lucky for me it will be a self install and use of online (or cagelogue items). I am thinking that the piggy back option is the way to go. As you said the battery should be charged if stopping at a park and if overnighting between parks then at most some lights for an hour or 2. Definetly want to have it setup to change and maintain on 240V when stored.

 

[mikerezny]

Hello there "Tech Heads" @mikerezny , @Bellbirdweb , @G Daddy , @Crusty181, and maybe @Drover , and anyone else with electrical experience, I have followed up on @Drover 's idea and checked through a lot of Low Voltage Disconnect modules and finally came up with two on Ebay which have VARIABLE settings that the user can manipulate to suit their own arrangements. From Hong Kong and as cheap as - $8 odd plus and $9 odd plus. Those of you who can wade through the "Chinglish" and get some idea of the operation will see that this could be the panacea for most people. It is not as simple as the straight inline units with FIXED settings, but I think it would still be relatively easy to fit. It would of course be better in a plastic box, but they too are cheap and easily obtained. The only issue I see is the current they can carry - 10A at 30v DC. Maybe I am reading it incorrectly and maybe there are others that may be more suitable. Any member who is willing to throw more light on this subject , let them please step forward. It will be appreciated by all. As it is very cheap, I was going to order one for my own info and so be able to try it out on a practice circuit at home. The links are set out below, both for the same article, but the top one has more understandable "Chinglish".

www.ebay.com.au/itm/All-the-way-relay-module-delay-power-off-trigger-voltage-upper-and-lower-li-X1Q1/253168385870www.ebay.com.au/itm/All-the-way-relay-module-delay-power-off-trigger-voltage-upper-and-lower-li-X1Q1/253168385870

Hi @Boots in Action,
can you edit this post to separate the two links?

cheers
Mike

 

[Boots in Action]

Hi @Boots in Action,
can you edit this post to separate the two links?

cheers
Mike

Sorry about that @mikerezny . They were the first ones I came across and I have since been in contact with the suppliers to find out current threshhold. They in turn have referred the matter to the manufacturers and have NOT got back to me yet. As my later posting #1102 is the one I would recommend , I would just look at that one and ignore the original links as they appear to be more complex and not really what I was looking for. If you still want them separated, I will oblige.

Edited as requested @mikerezny . Cheers

 

[Bellbirdweb]

Whilst this is slightly off topic, I have used the knowledge gained here to gude my descision making process for getting a solar system at home.

Whilst the scale is very different (38 x 330w panels with a 13kW lithium battery) I am going with a system that uses micro inverters at each panel to protect against partial shading instead of having all the panels in Series with a single inverter.