Over-loaded tug and/or Van!! Is this you???

[Drover]

Now that it's on Faceache their will be a big hue and cry " Why weren't we told ???" .......................... 167kg, lets see my old dog weighed in at 82kgs so it would be me and the dog and nothing else, buy a smaller van you dipsticks.............. Just over all these idiots who are shocked by the fact their vehicle can't tow anything, should have learnt to read at school along with how to count.....

But then I'm a Baby Boomer or some such nonsense, what do I know........................

 

[Drover]

Still haven't found out what the official GCM is for my Jeep, nothing in writing anywhere for a 2015 WK2....

 

[davemc]

@Drover at least the answered the question.
Could get nothing in writing regarding the Pajero Sport.

 

[Crusty181]

Interesting going through facebook.. big advert TrailBlazer someone asked real weights and someone at Holden replied
167kg left for a family of 7.. as that is what they aiming for.
Hopefully a skinnnnny family carseats weight around 7-8kgs alone

View attachment 64176

Oh $hit, dealer transparency could seriously hamper peoples attempts to not give a stuff, but try to ride out on the "but I wasnt told" line

 

[Brente1982]

Still haven't found out what the official GCM is for my Jeep, nothing in writing anywhere for a 2015 WK2....

The reason you cant find the GCM for your jeep is because in America it isn't required to be stamped on the compliance plate, unlike here in Australia where they are needed. That may have changed now that the government regulations regarding GVM upgrades have changed to no longer allow, or should i say, stipulate that a GVM upgrade can no longer/isn't allowed to in any way increase a vehicles GCM.

I could be wrong obviously, Im not expert.
And will admit when i bought my Ranger and decided to add "accessories galore", weights were the last thing on my mind. It was only recently when I've considered buying a brand new van that I've paid particular attention to them. And to be honest, have been quite shocked at that the car actually weighs with 2 adults, 2 children and full fuel and usual gear in the back.

I will say this that the automotive industry has done a lot to deceive people. By that i mean with their claimed 'braked towing capacity' figures. Lets face it, there's 4x4's out there that straight off the factory line and full of passengers would never be able to tow their claimed braked capacity. It is deception and needs to be changed, but we all know that will never happen. Too many acronyms lead to people being confused and complacent.

So now i need to work out how to shed weight (leave kids at home, wife maybe) or go for an expensive post-registration GVM upgrade to cover the vehicle side of things whilst still making sure the van i purchase, loaded up, still allows me to fall under the stipulated GCM.

It just shows that what we'd all love to be a simple process, ie. hooking up a caravan and going on adventues, is actually becoming a lot more complicated than it used to be.

 

[Crusty181]

The reason you cant find the GCM for your jeep is because in America it isn't required to be stamped on the compliance plate, unlike here in Australia where they are needed. That may have changed now that the government regulations regarding GVM upgrades have changed to no longer allow, or should i say, stipulate that a GVM upgrade can no longer/isn't allowed to in any way increase a vehicles GCM.

I could be wrong obviously, Im not expert.
And will admit when i bought my Ranger and decided to add "accessories galore", weights were the last thing on my mind. It was only recently when I've considered buying a brand new van that I've paid particular attention to them. And to be honest, have been quite shocked at that the car actually weighs with 2 adults, 2 children and full fuel and usual gear in the back.

I will say this that the automotive industry has done a lot to deceive people. By that i mean with their claimed 'braked towing capacity' figures. Lets face it, there's 4x4's out there that straight off the factory line and full of passengers would never be able to tow their claimed braked capacity. It is deception and needs to be changed, but we all know that will never happen. Too many acronyms lead to people being confused and complacent.

So now i need to work out how to shed weight (leave kids at home, wife maybe) or go for an expensive post-registration GVM upgrade to cover the vehicle side of things whilst still making sure the van i purchase, loaded up, still allows me to fall under the stipulated GCM.

It just shows that what we'd all love to be a simple process, ie. hooking up a caravan and going on adventues, is actually becoming a lot more complicated than it used to be.

Regardless of where any car is manufactured, if its imported into Aust its required to fully comply with Aust design rules.

GCM certification isn't a compliance requirement under the Aust design rules for any vehicle, so no vehicle in Aust is required to have it and most vehicles wont have it. Unfortunately there is a regurgitated social media based mistruth that GVM/GCM upgrades in Aust aren't allowed, and they often add some documents to substantiate that claim. This just another one of the many bazaar uneducated or misunderstood, social media Phenomenons that spread unchecked so vastly to the point where they become to many an "undeniable fake truth".

Fear not GCMs are still very much allowed pre registration Aust wide, and certainly in Vic post registration. The design rules are very clear (well at least to me, upgrade suppliers and the Fed Dept of Infrastructure they are anyway) The design rules dont specifically allow or restrict GCM upgrade because the Aust Design Rules dont address GCMs, factory or otherwise, at any time and basically a vehicles GCM is left entirely up to the manufacturers discretion. In the case of a second stage manufacturer they become the manufacturer. Make no mistake, the upgrade are still allowed, providers are still upgrading, and the Federal Dept of Infrastructure is still issuing the manufacturer Compliance Plates to legitimise them.

As late as the last Administrator of Vehicle Standards circular 0-4-6, issued in Oct 2019, youre still good to go.

 

[Brente1982]

Ok sorry i hadnt seen that circular, i was going off one from the previous year.

Still very confusing aswell as written about here
https://magazine.rvdaily.com.au/en_...he_gcm_upgrade_debate_takes_another_turn.html

 

[Crusty181]

Ok sorry i hadnt seen that circular, i was going off one from the previous year.

Still very confusing aswell as written about here
https://magazine.rvdaily.com.au/en_US/16790/237824/gross_combined_madness?_the_gcm_upgrade_debate_takes_another_turn.html

GCM isnt the only topic that gets the social media BS treatment. There are some real gems. The illegal existance of local govt is another particular favourite. Some of the deniers can be incredibly convincing, and commentators mislead. The actual documents regarding GVM/GCM read pretty clearly to me. I can see where they get the conflict, but its a pretty shallow twisting of the facts. I suppose for those conspiracist looking for fuel theres always something to find in you look hard enough.

 

[Brente1982]

Yes, i think it was a kind of cop out by the federal authority to palm it off to the individual states to govern as that is where a lot of the confusion now arises from.

What i also don't like is people who simply reply with "well buy a bigger truck, ram, dodge ford blah blah blah"

No, why should i have to when there as cheaper legal ways to go about it without having to buy a new vehicle at an exorbitant price that is impractical except for when i want to tow a few times a year.

Ill look to go down the GVM path, but don't believe all authorised SSM's will offer what is an available GCM upgrade. Only one i can seem to find is the Lovells option for both.

 

[Crusty181]

Yes, i think it was a kind of cop out by the federal authority to palm it off to the individual states to govern as that is where a lot of the confusion now arises from.

What i also don't like is people who simply reply with "well buy a bigger truck, ram, dodge ford blah blah blah"

No, why should i have to when there as cheaper legal ways to go about it without having to buy a new vehicle at an exorbitant price that is impractical except for when i want to tow a few times a year.

Ill look to go down the GVM path, but don't believe all authorised SSM's will offer what is an available GCM upgrade. Only one i can seem to find is the Lovells option for both.

Utes are always going to problematic, and the Rams and F trucks arent the answer either unless you intend bypassing the smaller units and buying the ridiculous 3500 style, because the smaller model's onboard payload is pathetic, and they also suffer from the same hidden weight handicaps as the Aussie utes in that they dont mentioned critical info in the "eats utes for breakfast" extra large print. Superior Engineering also do gvm/gcm upgrades along with a whole bunch of other impressive mods. Im planning on replacing my rear live axle with a Jmacx replacment .... theyre not cheap, just the axle is around $5500 plus fitting

 

[Brente1982]

Yeah superior use the lovells kit for the Ranger. Their price is $5900 but I reckon it could be done cheaper

 

[Drover]

The reason you cant find the GCM for your jeep is because in America it isn't required to be stamped on the compliance plate, unlike here in Australia where they are needed.

While Crusty covered it well the little known fact that vehicles like the Grand Cherokee is classed as a MA, a car while Utes are classed as MD (?) they are commercial thusly require a GCM to be noted on compliance plate, a reg thats been around for donkeys, of course there's even more to it but thats the gist of why you won't find the GCM.

Their price is $5900 but I reckon it could be done cheaper

That price is mind boggling for sure, makes you wonder why spend all the money on a new vehicle when you have to spend that much more, I wouldn't and haven't, there are cheaper options that are just as good. Got a quote once from ARB to fit a set, they wanted as much as the parts to fit, I did it myself with other gear, wasn't going to pay a name tax or gold plated labour charge for a simple job..


A lot of these magazines just skim the info, in fact most do, there is far more to the GCM/GVM stuff than they can explain, being able to read, comprehend and do simple maths is a requirement , something many can't.

 

[Brente1982]

I wouldn't be doing a SSM myself. Yes it's expensive, but compared to the alternative (a massive Ram 2500/3500 or Chevy Silverado) it's cheap and legal as well.

The engineer side of it pushes the price up as far as I'm aware. Small price to pay to cover your arse.

 

[Drover]

I suppose if you have someone fit it then the price is usually double, I like suspension upgrades but only to improve the capability but if its to allow the vehicle to tow at the max weight then its not so good unless the engine and transmission is upgraded as well, many forget that the gearbox and cooling system is done the same as the original suspension, minimum cost and just enough, expecting it to perform at its best requires upgraded parts........

With a Ranger I certainly would be doing the transmission upgrade they run exceedingly hot thanks to the stupid thermo switch they have fitted.

 

[Brente1982]

Yep, I've already fit an external cooler, larger pan and the thermal bypass. I, like many others, do agree that the temperatures in excess of 100 were a joke. The Ranger is a very capable vehicle and I've never had any issues with it. They just designed certain things in weird ways.

 

[Drover]

The Ranger is a very capable vehicle

Only after one has spent a sh*tload of cash on it though, something many vehicles have in common, its no better or worse than other dual cabs in that regard my Colorado required similar in the way of suspension and cooling upgrades. Manual version of these Utes with too high lower gearing and need HD clutches fitted just means designing to a budget not performance, something they are all guilty of............ don't get me started, should be able to buy something suited to the job, these utes aren't even good enough for tradie work in reality.
That will do I hope your upgrades give you miles of enjoyable travel someday anyway..........

 

[Brente1982]

Ahh that is true. One must spend to setup how we like, but that's life
This will be the last thing I need to do to provide me the last piece of the puzzle. Endless journeys around this amazing country we live in.

 

[Drover]

Never say never, I said that with my brilliantly fitted out Colorado, a truly fully functional vehicle, no bling and then, bingo out of left field I'm forced to get something way more gentle than a dual cab, thusly a Grand Cherokee, still able to travel to all the places, thankfully gave the corrugated BS away years ago but we can still off grid it just requires some smart pack thinking..... Towing capability is not a problem though, putting up with the comments from the chronically stupid is and requires some great retorts......... before I walk away.

 

[Brente1982]

You won't get any arguments about the Jeep from me. I know they're a great tow vehicle. But not something for me. I'm a tradie and adventurer, hence the Ranger, serves both purposes for me.

 

[Drover]

My SiL is the same with his BT50, I've done some great mods to his utes over the years, helps when its the company paying for it all..... ... A J10 Jeep to restore would be nice, of course the body and wheels would be the same but another engine, gearbox and suspension ............ never happen but I can dream.