Hi @aspiremr,
here is something from Altronics that is not all that different to what I have been using for over 20 years, costs $23.95
http://www.altronics.com.au/p/q1121a-protek-19-range-digital-multimeter/#fancy-inner
http://www.altronics.com.au/p/q1121a-protek-19-range-digital-multimeter/#fancy-inner
Or Jaycar, $19.95:
https://www.jaycar.com.au/economy-catiii-multimeter-with-non-contact-voltage-sensor/p/QM1527
https://www.jaycar.com.au/economy-catiii-multimeter-with-non-contact-voltage-sensor/p/QM1527
They both have the capability to measure 10A, by breaking into the circuit.
Just ensure that whatever you buy can measure 12V to 2 decimal places. e.g. 12.67V
I have got by without an expensive clamp for measuring current.
But it would have come in handy at times. I have always managed to break into a circuit by removing a fuse and measuring the current that was going through the fuse. Likewise with a switch.
If you do decide to get a clamp, make sure it measures DC. Some only do AC.
In any case, if you eventually buy an expensive meter, you might consider keeping it safe at home and still buying something for around $20 to keep in the van. You should be able to get more than $20 for the one you currently have on gumtree.
cheers
Mike
here is something from Altronics that is not all that different to what I have been using for over 20 years, costs $23.95
http://www.altronics.com.au/p/q1121a-protek-19-range-digital-multimeter/#fancy-inner
http://www.altronics.com.au/p/q1121a-protek-19-range-digital-multimeter/#fancy-inner
Or Jaycar, $19.95:
https://www.jaycar.com.au/economy-catiii-multimeter-with-non-contact-voltage-sensor/p/QM1527
https://www.jaycar.com.au/economy-catiii-multimeter-with-non-contact-voltage-sensor/p/QM1527
They both have the capability to measure 10A, by breaking into the circuit.
Just ensure that whatever you buy can measure 12V to 2 decimal places. e.g. 12.67V
I have got by without an expensive clamp for measuring current.
But it would have come in handy at times. I have always managed to break into a circuit by removing a fuse and measuring the current that was going through the fuse. Likewise with a switch.
If you do decide to get a clamp, make sure it measures DC. Some only do AC.
In any case, if you eventually buy an expensive meter, you might consider keeping it safe at home and still buying something for around $20 to keep in the van. You should be able to get more than $20 for the one you currently have on gumtree.
cheers
Mike
No, no need to buy a expensive one. The truth was I went to bunnings and they didn't have any. The next closest store to work was L&H and so I bought the cheapest one they had. Just my luck it was both way more than i need and not what I need
The altronics or jaycar ones will be perfect. Thanks for the tips on what to make sure it does.
Morning All,
Batt B now on test. Had a little false start as the globe had some grime stuck to it, and it started smoking and carrying on, so had to get ti cleaned off. All good now.
Interesting, Batt B was at 13.49 volts at bedtime last night, after about an hour off charge. First thing this morning it was down to 13.06 volts.
Then when I attached the load it dropped to 12.55 immediately, but continued to drop. I could sit and watch it almost like a countdown. I stopped watching at 12.48 volts.
Went back after 10 minutes and it was down to 12.24 volts.
Took load off, volts bounced back to 12.71.
8.45 am Re-attached clean globe, dropped to 12.38 volts.
Picture for the sake of it. Guess that interview room won't see many clients today LOL.
View media item 293
Batt B now on test. Had a little false start as the globe had some grime stuck to it, and it started smoking and carrying on, so had to get ti cleaned off. All good now.
Interesting, Batt B was at 13.49 volts at bedtime last night, after about an hour off charge. First thing this morning it was down to 13.06 volts.
Then when I attached the load it dropped to 12.55 immediately, but continued to drop. I could sit and watch it almost like a countdown. I stopped watching at 12.48 volts.
Went back after 10 minutes and it was down to 12.24 volts.
Took load off, volts bounced back to 12.71.
8.45 am Re-attached clean globe, dropped to 12.38 volts.
Picture for the sake of it. Guess that interview room won't see many clients today LOL.
View media item 293
Hi @aspiremr,
that is the effect of surface charge. It takes a while to go away. Whilst it is there it gives a false optimistic reading of SOC.
You can hasten its removal by putting your load on the battery for a minute or so.
Good luck with the testing.
cheers
Mike
Today's compelling reading, or welcome distraction from that which must be done.
Battery B
Battery connected to charger, charger saying
battery is fully charged 13.71 volts
Immediately on disconnection from charger (7.00 pm) 13.69 volts
After one hour off charger, unloaded ( 8.00 pm) 13.49 volts
7am following morning, prior to heading into
work to commence load test over course of day 13.07 volts
8 am arrival at work, no load 13.06 volts
Load connected 8 am
First reading after only a few minutes on load,
Not steady, constantly moving, constantly
going down single digit drops 12.55 volts to 12.48
after appr 10 minutes under load 12.24 volts.
Dirt on globe, smoking, so had to abandon
test until I could clean globe.
After globe had been turned off and battery
had sat off charge for 15 minutes 12.71 volts
New globe, re-attached 8.45 12.38 volts
9 am reading, taken under load 12.36 volts
10 am reading, taken under load 12.31 volts
11 am reading, taken under load 12.24 volts
Midday reading, taken under load 12.17 volts
1 pm reading, taken under load 12.11 volts
2 pm reading, taken under load 12.04 volts
3 pm reading, taken under load 11.97 volts
4.15 pm reading, taken under load 11.87 volts
5 pm reading, taken under load 11.83 volts
Disconnected from load 5 pm.
Reconnected to load 7 pm.
Voltage prior to reconnecting load. 12.08 volts.
7 pm reading, Taken several minutes after load reconnected 11.89 volts
8 pm reading, taken under load. 11.74 volts
9 pm reading, taken under load. 11.64 volts
10 pm reading, taken under load. 11.54 volts
Reading appr 5 minutes after load removed. 11.77 volts
Disconnected, time for bed. Appears battery b in better condition than battery a. Probably means i need to test it again this weekend, but put the load on prior to bed friday night, so i can then monitor saturday morning after it has already had some 10 hours of draw before is start monitoring.
Any thoughts or suggestions anyone?
Thanks
Battery B
Battery connected to charger, charger saying
battery is fully charged 13.71 volts
Immediately on disconnection from charger (7.00 pm) 13.69 volts
After one hour off charger, unloaded ( 8.00 pm) 13.49 volts
7am following morning, prior to heading into
work to commence load test over course of day 13.07 volts
8 am arrival at work, no load 13.06 volts
Load connected 8 am
First reading after only a few minutes on load,
Not steady, constantly moving, constantly
going down single digit drops 12.55 volts to 12.48
after appr 10 minutes under load 12.24 volts.
Dirt on globe, smoking, so had to abandon
test until I could clean globe.
After globe had been turned off and battery
had sat off charge for 15 minutes 12.71 volts
New globe, re-attached 8.45 12.38 volts
9 am reading, taken under load 12.36 volts
10 am reading, taken under load 12.31 volts
11 am reading, taken under load 12.24 volts
Midday reading, taken under load 12.17 volts
1 pm reading, taken under load 12.11 volts
2 pm reading, taken under load 12.04 volts
3 pm reading, taken under load 11.97 volts
4.15 pm reading, taken under load 11.87 volts
5 pm reading, taken under load 11.83 volts
Disconnected from load 5 pm.
Reconnected to load 7 pm.
Voltage prior to reconnecting load. 12.08 volts.
7 pm reading, Taken several minutes after load reconnected 11.89 volts
8 pm reading, taken under load. 11.74 volts
9 pm reading, taken under load. 11.64 volts
10 pm reading, taken under load. 11.54 volts
Reading appr 5 minutes after load removed. 11.77 volts
Disconnected, time for bed. Appears battery b in better condition than battery a. Probably means i need to test it again this weekend, but put the load on prior to bed friday night, so i can then monitor saturday morning after it has already had some 10 hours of draw before is start monitoring.
Any thoughts or suggestions anyone?
Thanks
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Hi @aspiremr , you d not have too much to worry about ....yet. Firstly when battery is on charge, the voltage WILL always be up in the high 13 volt range and even in the low 14 volt range. When taken off charge, the charging voltage is no longer there and the high surface charge slowly drops away, and continues to drop away until a resting voltage for a 12 volt battery stops at approx 12.8 or 12.6 volts and remains there for a long time in a fully charged battery. When you put any sort of load on a battery, there is an automatic drop of voltage potential depending on how heavy the load and how good the battery is at carrying that load. In your case, it is not how the voltage drops, BUT HOW LONG IT TAKES TO DROP!!
It is how long it takes to drop from resting to unusable voltage say 11.8 volts for your type of battery that will give us the info on whether the battery is any good or not. A battery showing 12.34 volts under load is still quite okay
Also it is normal for battery to recover voltage a little when load is removed. If you had to carry a load of 20% of your body weight, your knees would bend a bit at first and slowly bend more as time wore on. It someone removed your load, you would be able to stand up a bit straighter until next load applied. Best scenario I can give to relate to what is happening.
Thanks @Boots in Action , perfectly logical and a good example.
It is interesting to take these tests to conclusion and realise that the battery capacity can be much reduced even though battery is fully charging up according to voltage readings. To have evidence that battery a has capacity of approx 40 amps, despite it being a 96Ah battery, is really enlightening. I am learning a lot about batteries through this process.
Yet to fix anything, but by the time I get to that I will feel more confident about what I am doing I am sure.
Thanks
MR
Hi @aspiremr , the theory of battery charging is very important to know. Just because the charging battery voltage is in the range of a fully charged battery does NOT mean it is fully charged. There is a process called BULK, ABSORPTION and FLOAT. The battery is charged at max amps that the charger can put in until a set voltage is reached. This does not indicate that the battery is fully charged!!!
The next stage is absorption and is where the "guts" of the battery capacity is stored. When this has been achieved and charger senses that plates have been SATURATED with charge and hold the maximum possible charge, the charger moves on to float. ONLY THEN CAN A BATTERY BE SAID TO BE FULLY CHARGED!!!
The attached will give you a better understanding I hope.
Attachments
Hi @G Daddy , great charts for info, but that is for an AGM battery not a GEL. Charging and floar voltages are different for optimum use for a Gel. I think that the draw down in a Gel is slightly better than AGM, but at least it will be a guide.
Hi @G Daddy,
same here. I also couldn't find one either.
But I did find a datasheet for my battery, a Ritar RA12-100. I was sure it was a Gel battery, now I don't know. Looks like a Ritar RA12-100 is an AGM but there is another variant that is a GEL. Now I am confused. Have to go pop the top of the Penguin and have a good look.
cheers
Mike
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Good morning @aspiremr,
that is good news! Battery B is over 60% and might still have an hour or two left in it.
Good idea to give it another charge / discharge test this weekend.
It would also be worth cycling battery A a couple of times during the week to see if you can recondition it
cheers
Mike
Yep, better than I expected. I will cycle Battery and A and Battery B one full cycle before reinstalling in van, and then the focus will be to rewire the batteries as discussed, and run some tests on the solar. Will report back as this progresses based on what i find and look for advice on what actions next.
Once the Drifter and batteries are wired correctly and I can have some confidence in the measurements of what is being drawn I can be a little more certain about just how much power I am using. I still half expect to get to the end of all this and conclude I have a basic capacity problem, then it will just be how to deal with that best. One of the problems is that the drifter does not keep a log of what is drawn, it only gives instantaneous readouts.
I wonder, if I install one of the little blue boxes @mikerezny linked to previously, in the main load line form the batteries going out, would that give me a log or record of total draw over 24 hours for all loads? That may be a way to completely understand the load being drawn each weekend? Trying to install one of those in the cabling for each device is just too hard as getting to the wiring behind panels and inside walls etc.
Thanks
MR
hi @aspiremr , not sure if this has been mentioned, May be worth checking the date code (usually stamped on the top of battery) to check when the batteries were manufactured.
Hi @aspiremr , looking promising!! The more you charge and discharge under controlled conditions, the better the outcome is likely to be. I have taken the opportunity to feed you some more information on battery chargers themselves and why the Setec is not necessarily the best way to get FULL CHARGE CAPACITY into your batteries and why if you have a "smart" charger (ie one with better "smarts" than in the Setec charger) , you will do better. The attached will explain in more detail. More info to add to your knowledge and help you make your own educated decisions. Hope this is useful information for you when successful testing/connections completed.
Attachments
Hi @Boots in Action,
@aspiremr has a Ctek Multi XS 15000 charger to charge the batteries for the testing this week.
cheers
Mike
Hi @mikerezny , with a very "smart" charger like that, he should get the best results possible. Hopefully he has it set for "GEL" type battery charging algorithm.
Morning Gents, as best I can tell from teh manual the best mode to use for Gel batteries is the "normal" mode, and that is what I have it set to. Fingers crossed.
THanks
MR
Hi @aspiremr , If you are still looking for a descent multi meter I just ordered this, seem to have good reviews
