Your Lithium Battery Set Up

ShaneT

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Jul 24, 2014
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I worded that poorly @yabbietol, I meant 12v pack, not cells. Interested why @ShaneT didn't buy the fully integrated lithium 12v packs, as opposed to building up the pack himself from individual 3.2v cells.
Price, I think I paid about $150 a cell.
EV Works is only a hour away and I never had any plans of using a BMS.
This worked fine with my first solar reg in the camper trailer that topped out at 14.2v but then I brought a lithium solar reg which charged to 15.1v and one cell got away from me (4.22v. 4.2v is max) I then changed the reg to its lead acid setting (14.4v) balanced the cells and all was good, but after that cock up I brought a BMS anyway and EV power was the best I could find.
 

The Wadamses

Active Member
Jan 13, 2014
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I'll share my experience, I have a custom 400AH lifepo4 system in my van. We provide medical services in outback communities and remote areas and need reliable 12v power. the 200AH AGM (100AH useable, even then high loads at 100% SOC caused dreadful voltage drop) we had was only useful (mainly to get the tare weight) in full sun for a few hours. for the same weight and size we now have 400AH usable than can take large power draw. I had a a custom BMS unit made which utilises my 25AMP CETEK 240V charger, the 2 x CTEK 250S Dual chargers matched to a CETEK smartpass (stock SETEK unit charger) has an inbuilt cooling fan that activates at 50c all modified to be able to take 240v, alternator & solar concurrently up to 80amps (max rating of the smartpass) all contained in a custom box with custom electronics. The Lithium setup is much more efficient when charging, in similar circumstances we can get to 100% (4 x the AGM amount) in less than a third of the time it took with the AGM when on Solar - 495w roof, 120w portable. With lithium the voltage never drops below 12v, even at 5% SOC it is at 12.2v, the custom BMS box monitors each cell bank, will disconnect charging automatically when 99% SOC (this is a safety setting as you really don't need 100% SOC when you have 400AH) and disconnect all non critical 12v load at 20% and all load at 5% (all programmable) it can't over or undercharge, however we have not been able to use more that 53% currently, this is utilising inverters, satellite video comms & internet services, slide out external compressor fridge, foxtel, vast tv, coffee machine, thermomix, microwave and our air conditioner for a few hours if its too hot. we use a Victron 700 to monitor the bank and 2 x cell monitors, one close to the banks under the bed, one easily viewable in the van, this shows each individual cell voltage and will sound an alarm for over or under charge or if they drift out of balance. We have never had to balance the cells, they are constantly within 7mv of each other, this is testament to a well designed system.

The difference is like analogue to digital. I highly recommend but consider it as a system not a battery as it is much more sophisticated than lead acid. they are much more robust, you don't need a maintenance charge while stored or any other special treatment between uses, just use them and let the BMS charge when it thinks it needs it. Most of the packaged, sealed lithium units I found when I was researching last year were expensive per AH and didn't have cell balancing or very sophisticated BMS which means if 1 cell fails you have to throw the whole unit away, if you build up a cell based system with BMS, monitoring and cell balancing, should a cell fail you can inexpensively replace just that cell.

I couldn't be happier. Happy to recommend the guy that did my work, pm me for details.

Cheers
Rob
That sounds seriously impressive, Rob.
:minion_big:I'm all for idiot-proof, self-regulating and automatic, so based on what you've said, I'll have what you're having!

Like ShaneT, I'm learning from smart people that know about this stuff, bc I know nothing about this stuff. Have really enjoyed trying to get my head around it all, so thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences and expertise.

Thanks for the contact offer; will definitely PM you for details :)
 
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ShaneT

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Jul 24, 2014
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No worries Its not as scary as people make it out to be.
My BMS disconnects the battery pack If the pack falls below 12v or above 15v, the cell top modules that just plug into the BMS also disconnects the pack if a cell falls below 2.6v or over 4.1v so your battery is totally safe. You can 99% charge you pack with 13.8v. I am currently charging mine to 14.4 which is only a few more amps in the battery so gets there pretty quick. What 14.4v does is kick in the cell top modules (3.6v) and balances the battery to 0.0something of a volt. This is not needed every time but doesn't hurt either.
I now have a dingo solar controller that after a lot of reading I plan to bulk charge to 13.8v, then using the bmv700 disconnect the solar at 99% full and reconnect and start charging again at 90%. this is not needed but is better for lithium than holding them in the float stage.
Then program in a equalising charge every month to charge to 14.4v to kick in the cell modules and bring ever thing back to 0.01v difference between cells, again not needed but hey.
They also say its better for lithium if you drain them down to 12.8v when not using the van for over a month.
In saying all this for just over 2 years I have been holding mine in float and have never stored them at a reduced voltage until now and I can still pull 200amps out of them, so all of the above (besides the BMS system) is about getting a longer life out of your battery than do it or they will die on you with in the year type thing
 
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ShaneT

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If your really really keen go onto the caravan forum and read all the threads on lithium. If you cant stand that forum just search "T1 Terry" and read his posts. You will be well on the way to choosing the bits for your own system in no time.
 
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The Wadamses

Active Member
Jan 13, 2014
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If your really really keen go onto the caravan forum and read all the threads on lithium. If you cant stand that forum just search "T1 Terry" and read his posts. You will be well on the way to choosing the bits for your own system in no time.
Thanks Shane!
Am really keen to have an optimal battery system, for sure, and I want a basic working knowledge, but I'm not keen on learning all the ins and outs, and have about had enough of trawling for now, so really appreciate your shortcut to T1.
Have emailed Rob @Redbarn's guy and looking forward to reading T1Terry's posts. Once I have all that on the same page, figure we'll be good to go.
Really appreciate the heads-up :)
 

ShaneT

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You should be onto a winner then. When I last emailed him he was off to set up a lithium off grid house, so a small van setup should be child's play.
 
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The Wadamses

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:minion_evil_run:AND now Terry's just caned the ibis3 in terms of weight & output compared to a split system...
Given his recommendation along with @StoneStomper's experience, our next job is to convince the manufacturer who just spent a long time convincing me otherwise that the aircon along with lithium system, the two things on our list about which he was most reticent, are back to being non-negotiables.
:minion_happy:And then wait til I tell him I really do want to go a digital inverter fridge like Terry suggests!
 
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ShaneT

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Split system is light years ahead of the ibis. You would be better of just deleting the ibis and have the split fitted by someone else. The old man is doing it that way. I think the ibis is 1300watts and a split the same size is 500watts. Also the splits make no noise unlike the roof toppers.
 
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The Wadamses

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Thanks Shane... Good to know!
T1 has suggested having the compressor fitted in a locker recessed above the axles rather than on the Aframe to avoid the weight issue; main reason manufacturer said he was pro the ibis3.
Like the idea of that in terms of protecting the compressor as well, and is a mod that @StoneStomper says he would've made to help his split system unit in hindsight.
Aftermarket is a great idea I hadn't actually thought of - thanks! Certainly an option if the manufacturer won't play, though my pref is definitely to get as much factory fitted as we can.
 

ShaneT

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That would be a huge locker and would take a lot of interior space, but would be better for vibration while traveling. I would be more incline to adjust the interior lay out to make it a bit more rear heavy and mount it in a nice custom tool box on the draw bar. Just another idea.
 
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The Wadamses

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All ideas welcome, thanks!
Certainly don't want to lose any internal space; 3 kids will take care of that without any hardware help.:agnes_happy:
Are planning on a full rear boot that's 200kgs plus spare tyre to be under slung, so weight in the back end shouldn't be an issue at all. The factory is opening to playing with axle position to adjust ball weight too, so we actually have a fair bit of flexibility there. Total tare weight is our biggest challenge, so I figure lithium system is in our favour there. Need to just get really clear about exactly what the weights are with split system compared to ibis so can go back to manufacturer with all the facts.. I didn't know any details for our last conversation other than 'I want one!'.