Special Towing Category for driving licence.

[Bank of Dad]

Because govt training courses are don't be rude coldie....I've done their motor bike course, to prepare me for one of the riskiest things you can do on our roads..... joke! Why would a course for caravanners be different, or boat towers, or any other trailer...?

 

[crackacoldie]

Because govt training courses are **** coldie....I've done their motor bike course, to prepare me for one of the riskiest things you can do on our roads..... joke! Why would a course for caravanners be different, or boat towers, or any other trailer...?

So no course is better?? Not really a sound argument. Because the government may produce a crap course, we are better of thinking that irresponsible people will put themselves through a private course..........

 

[crackacoldie]

In SA, the Ride Safe training is the only government provided training, all other driver training, for all classes, is managed by private training providers. Why should potential towing training be different to any other class?

 

[peterg]

Interesting discussion. Now can we add in the physical ability aspect. How many of you have seen someone operating a car/caravan in a caravan park without really looking when they reverse? When they get out of their car you notice they can't twist their head without their whole body following. This produces the equivalent of a person reversing whilst looking in around 0.02sq.m of mirror. Not really enough of a view to reverse safey. To top it all of this person gets out of the car and can barely walk or bend to setup their van. What chance do we have of having genuine safety on the road while people who are physically unable to drive safely are still allowed to tow trailers around????

End rant. I'll go away now.

 

[Bank of Dad]

I'm just glad govt are hopeless......caravanists seem to be the only group who want to make their lives harder. I'm ok, I'm educated and capable of educating myself so that'll do me. The rest of you go and seek govt involvement in something they know nothing about.......I'm gone......good luck Expandas goneunder!

 

[Crusty181]

Hard to argue against that @crackacoldie

*Try posting a bit more so your post isn't boring*

 

[Crusty181]

When we picked up our van as it was our we went and did a course.. They went through all the weights and how to setup the van connecting to the car. There was a few other people doing the course who where picked up with WDH setup incorrectly. We could of done the second half and got a certificate although felt we got what we needed from the practical side.
I also brought a towball scale I use before trips. Even though the Disco has 350kg I want to see if van loaded ok.

I did find that article below interesting. We have just under 700kg payload in the Disco add me and Sarah.. Well not much left .. Although seriously us plus 4 kids, car seats and pram be just under 400kg.
https://practicalmotoring.com.au/ca...rating-may-not-really-be-a-3500kg-tow-rating/

@crackacoldie interesting read.. I also worry when I see people hiring trailers and we all seen the idiots with things not tied down.

There isnt to much of the info in that article that made it into the conversation at both the van and car dealer

 

[Smergen]

This is an interesting one, and I've been watching the thread wondering when to chime in....

I'll put my hand up on this one... My towing history was really limited to trailers full of green waste and landscaping materials. I really knew very little about hooking up a 2.5t van before going out on the road. Hell, knew very little about brake controllers, GCMs, GVMs, tares.... etc. I have through my life clocked up many kilometres on the road and appreciate the dangers it involves, not to mention the dire consequences when it all goes wrong.

But I bought a caravan on a whim, bought an old tractor Pajero (bless it's soul) and started our holidays... Just hook and go.

As I've progressed the past year I've learnt more than I could ever imagine, most of which came from discussions, thoughts and ideas from people on EDU. Realised just how naïve and uneducated I was. I think my natural conservative and cautious (read boring) nature probably saved me more issues, embarrassment and worse. The biggest issue/improvement I think would be the fast tracking of upgrading the tugboat to something that is capable and safe, with a safety margin built in, as opposed to near the limits...

But my point (if you haven't glazed over my lyrical waxing)? I welcome any licencing, education, tips, tools, tricks that is made available. I think compulsory courses would be fine by me as well. It doesn't stop the idiots and those that flaunt the rules (or else we wouldn't need booze buses). So why not educate the general responsible masses that little bit further.

Someone mentioned earlier some people seem to have this innate belief that driving is a right, rather than a privilege. We all make mistakes and been the people that others smile at when you park the van and have to have a second (or third) go. Let's just remember that our mistakes could not only hurt ourselves, but as in @crackacoldie 's examples, could tragically involve others...

It's a great discussion with some great points being made here.

 

[Antman]

@crackacoldie i to believe that the education must be compulsory. How to achieve this without costing the driver an arm and a leg through the licensing system that the government has invented to basically revenue raise as it all now goes into consolidated revenue rather than roads and road improvement etc is the problem that i see. I certainly don't know how to achieve compulsory driver education outside of that system however. It could be that the driver must sit certain third party training and achieve competence based certificates that they must carry with them when they travel. Thinking about it there would be no need to go through the licensing system as the onus is always on the driver anyway with their licence to prove if pulled over. The same thing could happen with this. The issue though will always remain - when a government driven scheme is involved it will get bastardised by suppliers of what ever the product is.

 

[peterg]

Tie the training to insurance. Insurers will make it hard enough that they can jack ip their prices for a legally defendable reason.

 

[Crusty181]

Tie the training to insurance. Insurers will make it hard enough that they can jack ip their prices for a legally defendable reason.

Everyone was playing reasonably nicely .... and you had to mention the insurance companies. :doh:

 

[Tricky]

Maybe insurance companies could consider a discount for those that have complete an "accredited" training program as some now do for vans fitted with DSC.

 

[crackacoldie]

there are so many more vehicles towed than just caravans though, I don't believe the education needs to be limits to one segment of what is towed.

 

[gspy4u]

Don't see the point in making it compulsory, it only adds more money to the cost of having a license and half the people on the road with a normal license can't damn well drive in the first place.
Gives me lots of confidence in any compulsory courses NOT.
Just like how much money is being thrown at the latest motorcycle safety campaign. Go to there website and answer a few question and it makes you a safer rider. Not to mention almost every instance they show makes it out that its the bike riders fault for not knowing the car was turning, stopping or whatever. Just wasting all our money yet again.

How many P platers have you seen that have no clue on how to drive, merge, indicate, use the correct lane, park, reverse, observe any speed limit, give way, don't sit up your arse and so on. And these are people that have just gotten their license so should know how to drive !!!!

Do we really need yet ANOTHER rule for the nanny country we live in ?

 

[bigcol]

I have many many thoughts and feelings I could add to this "discussion"
none of them can be repeated in mixed company though, so I will stick with the basic's

as per @crackacoldie 's post - similar to #1
"1. A Male attends a service station and hires a car trailer, fills out the required paperwork, hands over his hard earned. The attendant helps to hook up the trailer to a 1985 ZL Fairlaine (Tow capacity max 1600kg) with a light duty towbar, runs the hirer through the operation of winch and ramps and checks trailer lights."

in my case it was 1980 and I was 17 at the time, I have towed a few 6x4's no problemo (should also say I have been driving since I was 10...... Army Brat..... Landi's and APC's in a controlled environment)
hired a car trailer to take my Fairlane to a workshop to fix the auto trans, as it had no forward gears, only reverse, tow car was a HQ wagon
got the general speall from the attendant, and away I go,and its 4.00 on a Friday (peak hour)
load the Fairlane onto trailer......hmmm, no forward gears, I will reverse it onto the trailer
cable from winch on trailer attached to the diff, 2 ropes attached either front wheel - got that bit sort of right in my mind....

the rest went pear shaped very quickly

travelling for about 1/2 hour down Wannaroo Rd, clown pulls in front of me (I'm towing, there fore I will be slow, and he is in a hurry to get home)
I slam the anchors on, no problem for the first 3 seconds, then all hell breaks loose
trailer breaks (mechanical) dont work (SHYTTE)
trailer starts to sway - only way to stop it is to accelerate, so I do -
unfortunately, the weight of the engine of the Fairlane (at the back of the trailer) overcomes the kinetic forces of me trying to accelerate while still wobbling and the front of the Fairlane is now on my right shoulder, still attached to the trailer, and the trailer is still attached to my wagon
so now I am doing a lovely waltz down the centre of the road, that has magically emptied of cars..........
3 complete 360's until I came to a complete stop.

I rang my father to come move the car, as I was quite "stressed"
I booked in for a defensive driving course on the Monday and also did the towing course at the same time

I was lucky, and learnt at a young age not to be so "blaze" with driving


if the Gov made it a compulsory test with an added class on your license, they could then stop & fine those who are towing without license.........

like a motor bike
1 class for 6x4
1 class for 8x6
1 class for car trailer
1 class for Van over 14'
1 class for Van over 16'
1 class for Van over 18'
etc

 

[peterg]

Towing license could be simplified to a single class. Towed Combination = perhaps a combined GVM of less than 8T comprised a tow vehicle plus a trailer.

 

[Crusty181]

I think we could all agree that no-one is advocating a licence endorsement that is nothing but a revenue raising waste of time. Its all a hypothetical debate, and I for one am in favour of the "hypothetical system" (whatever that may be) that makes a tow'er a better and safer tow'er. Im totally against the current actual insane system that allows anyone to tow anything, anytime, anywhere with any experience or lack there of.

The current licensing, training and endorsement requirements are inadequate, (bordering on a joke) and I think we could agree on that too. We all see the kinds of knuckleheads driving on the road that arguably shouldnt be. But that said, Im pretty confident that all those that think compulsory training and licensing is inadequate still would not have just thrown their own kids the keys to the family car late one dark rainy Friday night on their kids 18th birthday, without any of that compulsory training or lessons and said 'She'll be right, happy birthday Daryl. The 3.5t vans all hitched up son, off you go. You and your mate have a good weekend" .... don't forget to ring us from the hospital

 

[Drover]

Many good points while I have done a few training sessions and a couple of million Kms on the road and off road, taught quite a few people to drive heavies also, I found too much info was no good.
Ideally show someone just the basics at first, then later when they've got a few Km's under the belt they can do a bit more advanced training then later on go on the skid pan and do the defensive, it all takes time if you try to show someone the whole shebang in a week they just overload.
A course will show you what to do and what to look for but you won't be a better driver, a more aware driver hopefully, the better driver won't appear till many Km's are travelled and you suddenly realize that you react before you even know the beast or big Roo is coming out from the left flank at speed.

Drovers Tip #467.........As you cruise down the road play a game with the kids, call out everything within 150 yds, posts, dogs, people, car on left, car on kurb, car behind, kid in driveway left, car with reversing lights on on right etc........showing them and you exactly the things you need to be aware of as a driver, they then get an idea of what is required which isn't shown in the book. Do it often enough and it will be happening when your not even thinking about it, as it should be.
Played this game with my kids and a little girl is alive today as my son had hit the brakes in time, he was aware, he'd played the game.

Get it down pat then think of what you would do in certain situations, it works.

 

[bigcol]

A course will show you what to do and what to look for but you won't be a better driver, a more aware driver hopefully, the better driver won't appear till many Km's are travelled and you suddenly realize that you react before you even know the beast or big Roo is coming out from the left flank at speed.

quite right too @Drover,
it takes years of driving to even recognize that you have an ability to Kill.............
let alone an ability to NOT kill..........


just as a "for instance" how many here actually drive with their hands at the 10 to 2 position on the steering wheel
we ALL have to master that to get our License

but how many still drive that way....................???

and

why NOT.............?

 

[crackacoldie]

Still do in traffic and when towing @bigcol, have to admit I get a little lapse on long country runs