Should caravan owners undergo compulsory towing education?

[Drover]

With Fatigue Management, WHS, Certificates in Logistics and all the other bits of paper to be a better Long Distance Transport Operator as well as doing a bit of HV instruction, I actually would like to see at least a MR licence for those towing vans, the how to implement such a scheme would be horrifying and I doubt any state or federal government would be able to manage it without having a morotorium on those towing longer than 2 yrs, all the rest would have to do a test to upgrade their licence................I course like DEcca run in Vic would be ideal but impractical.

I should also mention that a rigid truck can tow a trailer and be it a PIG or Dog no lessons/testiing is needed, you learn on the job.......and the semi licence is a turn around the block, smooth gear shifts and turning, and a simple reverse, it takes a lot of miles before your any good.

 

[millers]

Not the intention to say that education or training is not beneficial, but I cannot see bringing in a license that will require you to attend a training facility for up to three years and have a supervisor every time you drive for that period.

My issue is more with licensing in general being considered training as opposed to registration. I am old enough to say that getting the early licenses did not constitute training to a level that I would consider acceptable. My parents provided driver training which I think gave me a good grounding and future courses (advanced driver training) by employer hopefully means that I am a good driver. That said I still believe that I can learn more and improve.

None of that training was required to get a license, and having a child that has just completed getting a license I would suggest that the ground work is better but not to a level that makes you a good driver once you have your license.

The same will happen with the licensing for caravans (or towing). The skill level required to get the license will be just above idiot driver, with no follow on to check competency because you have not towed for 5 years after getting your license.

So enough of the it will not work, what can be done to make it better.

Well from the aircraft industry I would propose that every caravan, camping & 4x4 show should have a simulator (full image and seat motion) that would provide the accident waiting to happen scenarios where people could get in and experience the warning signs and even the difference in weights and distribution of that weight. I would suggest that you could even dial up your own vehicle dynamics. Then having one in each state would be even better. The reason that these are better is that you can take people through scenarios that will result in a crash, which you cannot with a real car and caravan.

Maybe all of that speeding fine money could pay for the simulators.

 

[Drover]

I tell you what @millers if they had folks go thru a sim every few years it would sure get some traffic off the roads...........possibly need Ambo's standing by as those sims can be scary....lol....................

 

[davemc]

to complete a towing course it was one day. Not saying not worth it for a beginner.
Although a lot of these crashes seems people who towed for years.
If they really want to get on top of the caravan crashes they need to investigate what is causing them.

The van and tug are probably overloaded in a lot of them. If vans got pulled into the weigh stations I bet a lot of people get there vans sorted out.
I might harp on about this although there should be something standard about weights you can tow.
Some cars can tow 3.5 tonne some can only tow 3.5 tonne if you remove payload.
It be so much simple to say you can only tow X at full GVM.
Although then the Pajero Sport could not be class leader even though you cannot tow the 3.1 tonne at full GVM vs the MUX 3 tonne at full GVM

 

[bigcol]

some basic fundamentals need to be addressed before anything can be done about Caravan accidents - or car accidents as well

inherent design fault of caravans - over weight, over size, too heavy,
inherent design faults of tow vehicle - ability V's desire V's reality
inherent design faults of towing combination - distance between rear wheels on tow vehicle and wheels on Van, cantilever action at connection
inherent design fault of loading caravan - perception V's reality, what can I carry - where can I carry it, do I need to carry this........

then bundle this with 3rd world roads - bitumen falling apart on major Hwys, inconsistent road width, single lane Hwys (for cost not safety)
USA and parts of Europe have concrete roads.... think about it........

and on top of ALL that, there is
Drivers who cannot
Driver training which isn't
Police who wont, or cannot due to loop holes
vested interests from a multitude of "lobbyists"
Local Gov. inability to control infrastructure to an adequate level
State Legislation with is archaic
Federal Legislation which is a shambles


yep, there is an easy fix in there somewhere........................................

 

[Mick]

hay wait, what are we all worried about soon we will all have driver less cars so we wont have to worry about needing a special licence.
we can just set the GPS and go to sleep in the van and wake up in a new spot.
HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE now this is a can of worms :der::der::der::der::hurt-41:

 

[1DayIll]

After reading all this I need a holiday! Where is my van?

 

[Bank of Dad]

Sure......why not, my next career maybe?

 

[Bushman]

This issue raised it ugly head again on ACA the other night, My question is why is it just pointed at vans, probably because they have the most incidents however there's plenty of people out there towing boats, horse floats,car trailers etc, so this licencing has to be pointed at all who tow "ANYTHING"

 

[Crusty181]

This issue raised it ugly head again on ACA the other night, My question is why is it just pointed at vans, probably because they have the most incidents however there's plenty of people out there towing boats, horse floats,car trailers etc, so this licencing has to be pointed at all who tow "ANYTHING"

ACA is entertainment, much like the circus and Home & Away. Its difficult to entertain without a specific focal point, because people find it hard to concentrate if they cant work out who (other than themselves) to blame, or pity. If ACA spoke without a focal point, they'd be a political party. One thing politicians are awesome at is pretending they were the first with an idea. The more tow licensing appears in the entertainment press, the less likely it will ever happen.

 

[Crusty181]

we can just set the GPS and go to sleep in the car and wake up in a new spot.

That is precisely what the Princess does. She wont be told the QLD is further than just the other side of Melb, and the drive from Melb to QLD is any more than 3 hours.

Anyway, I distinctly remember my mum telling me Id have a flying car. Where's my damn flying car mum !!!!

 

[Drover]

Where's my damn flying car mum !!!!

Stolen by some Piggies.....??

 

[bigcol]

The more tow licensing appears in the entertainment press, the less likely it will ever happen.

I hope you are right

however, in a perverse and morbid way,
I think the more that some "special" people bleat on about it, the sooner some up and coming tosser of a Politician will then make it their platform

some people are not the brightest light globes in the packet
for the 5th time this year, I have been reading the comments (on Faceache) of some who still insist that you need rated shackles for towing safely

they breathe
they breed
the future is screwed..........................

 

[Crusty181]

I hope you are right

however, in a perverse and morbid way,
I think the more that some "special" people bleat on about it, the sooner some up and coming tosser of a Politician will then make it their platform

some people are not the brightest light globes in the packet
for the 5th time this year, I have been reading the comments (on Faceache) of some who still insist that you need rated shackles for towing safely

they breathe
they breed
the future is screwed..........................

I have to confess Im a pro tow endorsement proponent ( dont shoot).

(I'm under the bed with the Crusketts iPad typing this .... pi$$ of Rin Tin Tin, theyll find me )

 

[bigcol]

hey,
to a degree, I can understand the requirement and sort of agree with it

you need different licenses to drive different sized motor bikes, and maybe there should be some for towing trailers & boats & work trailers & Vans

but the argument that it will stop accidents is a ludicrous as saying we have an honest Parliamentarian system or an honest Judicial system

we have car licenses -
and still have accidents
we have truck licenses -
and still have accidents
we have motor bike licenses -
and still have accidents
we have commonsense -
and still have accidents

we have rules & OHS on Mine Sites -
and still have accidents

we have Gun licenses
and criminals still have guns..............

 

[davemc]

interesting read here.. poor kid. Although not sure how true the below quote is.. I would of thought it was a lot harder to get a heavy vehicle license.
The part is where I worry a caravan license will just be something a industry will make money off. As said I did a course where if I did the written part I get a certificate.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/i...ctim-calls-for-crackdown-20171109-gzikls.html

Mr Anderson has also called for tighter training and licensing requirements for heavy vehicle drivers in Victoria, where truck driver licences are granted on the basis of five hours' on-site training and the ability to reverse a vehicle 50 metres in a straight line.

There are no on-road driving hours required for a truck driving licence, compared to 120 hours required for a car licence.

"You do not even have to be able to read English," Mr Anderson said.

 

[mikerezny]

hey @bigcol,
to a degree, I can understand the requirement and sort of agree with it

you need different licenses to drive different sized motor bikes, and maybe there should be some for towing trailers & boats & work trailers & Vans

but the argument that it will stop accidents is a ludicrous as saying we have an honest Parliamentarian system or an honest Judicial system

we have car licenses -
and still have accidents
we have truck licenses -
and still have accidents
we have motor bike licenses -
and still have accidents
we have commonsense -
and still have accidents

we have rules & OHS on Mine Sites -
and still have accidents

we have Gun licenses
and criminals still have guns..............

Hey,
with your help, I just worked it all out.

Licenses cause accidents!

So, how many vans have rolled over that were driven by someone without a license compared to those who had a license?

Three types of lies: Lies, Untruths, and statistics.

cheers
Mike

 

[bigcol]

Hey,
with your help, I just worked it all out.

Licenses cause accidents!

no, but lack of adequate training is equal to No license

I'm more horrified by the link Dave put up............ I am gob smacked and speechless (and thats saying something)
although, after reading that article - you may be quite right in your assumption for Victoria

especially when you guys flob on about yearly vehicle checks - something is not happening correctly


I thought we over here in the "wild west" had a problem

we have stupid road rules like

NOT allowed over 100km/p/h when towing - anything at all - ever
and
ALL trucks speed limited to 100k/p/h

 

[bigcol]

most of the people I have seen / read / heard fobing on about the need for licenses are Victorian (and some Qlders) Truck Drivers

seems like their own industry is so crooked, maybe the idea if for these people to create a new niche industry

driver training for towing.........


God (or Krishna) help us...............

 

[mikerezny]

most of the people I have seen / read / heard fobing on about the need for licenses are Victorian (and some Qlders) Truck Drivers

seems like their own industry is so crooked, maybe the idea if for these people to create a new niche industry

driver training for towing.........


God (or Krishna) help us...............

I might be cynical but, it seems like:

"Hey we have identified a problem.

"Oh good, how can we tax it and create a new industry so our mates can make another squillion!, Otherwise it isn't a problem we are interested in"

One great thing about getting old is I know I have less years to put up with this c&%&%p then a lot of much younger folk! It is them I feel sorry for.

cheers
Mike