Should caravan owners undergo compulsory towing education?

[mikerezny]

Hi,
just saw this news item on the ABC website:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-...s-undergo-compulsory-towing-education/9031486

This was probably motivated by the two accidents involving caravans on the Bruce highway in the past few days.

cheers
Mike

 

[bigcol]

 

[bigcol]

the is a major outcry that as caravans are towed - people should be licenced same as truck drivers......
however
there is as many "newbies" involved in accidents one the Bruce Hwy as HC/ MC licenced drivers....................
classic was about 1 month ago
retired long distance truck driver
2 driver towing training courses in 10 years
towing a van for 10 years
(was on Claytons faceache page)

NOW

where has the majority of the caravan accidents happened...........

majority of the accidents so far this year, seem to be within 10kms of each other - on the Bruce Hwy.............
(from Claytons Faceache page as well)

are the accidents from driver error
are the accidents from road condition
are the accidents from poor loading of caravan............

my thinking (and I may be wrong - it happens occasionally) is that there are 2 main reasons.......

MORE caravans on the road = more chance of an accident involving a caravan

Easier access to Social Media = more people knowing about said accidents, and the same accident gets reported more times in different areas, so we think there is more, but there is not
there was an accident on Bruce Hwy recently - drugged lady in 4wd rear ended another car and both rolled
I have seen the same bit of footage on several faceache pages, as well as several news sites......same video - different slant on the story

next problem
who is at Fault
is it the Van manufacturer for making heavy unstable vans
is it the car manufacturer selling a vehicle that may or may not be able to tow that amount safely
is it the driver of a 4wd that is advertised to tow 3.5 tonne, towing a van weighing in at 3.5 tonne and it rolls
is it the driver for not knowing how to pack his car and van safely


mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Drover]

The legalities and logistics of mandatory Van licencing would be more than any state could cope with, it would be a national requirement, the agreement of all states would be required so there's just a couple of reasons why it will take a few lifetimes, of course in QLD the Plank would set up a committee to report and arrange to have NGO's do the testing for a fee, of course we would then see multiple groups offering and the rorts would be numerous, a big balls up of course.
And of course the accidents would continue.........

 

[bigcol]

The legalities and logistics of mandatory Van licencing would be more than any state could cope with, it would be a national requirement, the agreement of all states would be required so there's just a couple of reasons why it will take a few lifetimes, of course in QLD the Plank would set up a committee to report and arrange to have NGO's do the testing for a fee, of course we would then see multiple groups offering and the rorts would be numerous, a big balls up of course.
And of course the accidents would continue.........

that there is a major reason why I dont agree...........

I have done a few courses at some sites - with the Trainer learning (and getting certified) at the same time as teaching?
I do not have those "qualifications" on my resume - as I dont believe they are justified to be there............
rather call that inhouse / onsite training not recognised anywhere else

 

[Papa Whiskey]

It seems to me that most people getting involved ( suggesting training, etc) are people that do not tow, or have never towed! How did WE WISE OWLS manage to get our towing standards to appropriate levels? That’s right, practice, maturity and common sense.

There are many accidents EVERY DAY between motorists not towing anything.... does that earn that they should be relicenced after any bingle?

I do admit that there is a tendency for younger drivers to “ operate a machine” rather than be a “ motorist”, but not many of those are likely to be caravanners yet.

I do think that manufacturers should be providing more accurate information ( in plain English!) re actual weight of unladen caravan ( rather than advertised weight, which is never accurate) . Maybe each van should come with a certificate of actual tare weight and tow all download for that individual van. Also car manufacturers should, perhaps, suggest a “ recommended “ tow limit along with the maximum.

Nevertheless, it is up to us to make sure that tug and van are a good match, loaded properly and driven with care.

 

[bigcol]

There are many accidents EVERY DAY between motorists not towing anything.... does that earn that they should be relicenced after any bingle?

I like the old French system
1st accident - 3 months loss of licence (get caught driving without a licence WAS3 months goal)
2nd accident - 6 months loss of licence
3rd accident - 12 months loss of licence
4th accident - 2 years loss of licence
5th accident banned for life............

they changed the Law in 1990 I am lead to believe, and not sure what they are now.....


did you we have the highest per capita amount of accidents on the road - and the hardest licencing

 

[Mick]

this is my two cents worth just done a 4 day trip to Canberra via east coast testing out the new Journey and found every time we were over taken by people in those little cars no bigger than a roller skate and with little power as they mostly over take on a hill and as the turbo winds up on the tug and you get powered up they just cut back in front of us and as the tug has teck pak fitted it goes nuts ans warns of collision, and now the new van also has ESC all is good but I think people who don't tow should have training on how to over take large trucks and caravans as those who tow caravans know that you can not just pull up on a dime when some idiot pulls in front of you with no stopping distance.
just my two cents

 

[davemc]

we did a course soon after getting the van.
Did it help yes. Do I think people should do one.. maybe up to them.

Every day cars crash people had to get license somewhere

Although I get worried the amount of badly loaded cars.
People who think they can tow 3.5 tonne as the car ad said so.
The tugs with big vans that cannot legally tow.
People with heavily loaded cars and vans.
They are accidents waiting to happen no matter if they did a course or not.
We got overtook going down the Hume by people doing a lot more then 110 with vans attached.

you just cannot police stupid.

 

[crackacoldie]

opcorn:op2:

 

[davemc]

opcorn:op2:

should i go over to the other forum after i make some and get a cold drink

 

[Mick]

As quoted by davemc Although I get worried the amount of badly loaded cars.
People who think they can tow 3.5 tonne as the car ad said so.
The tugs with big vans that cannot legally tow.
People with heavily loaded cars and vans.
They are accidents waiting to happen no matter if they did a course or not.
We got overtook going down the Hume by people doing a lot more then 110 with vans attached.

you just cannot police stupid.
you will always will get some one drink driving or on drugs
and others to busy texting or on the phone or driving long distance without taking a rest
or just some one just got to get in front of that dam caravan

 

[Tone]

My 2 cents worth, I kind of think that basic skills towing anything over a certain weight should be done through training with maybe an endorsement. Having a HC license shouldn’t cover it either as trucks are a total kettle of fish and built to handle loads properly and driving dynamics are totally different to towing with a car. Should you be able to tow this on a standard car license with noo experience?

 

[davemc]

We did the tow course we just had to do the exam part to get accredited

People here seen how good I can reverse he he Ok we are a lot better now it took time not a 6 hour course

 

[Rockape]

Interesting reading people's thoughts. I have been towing caravans and trailers for nearly 15 years. I own a Jayco Journey and tow with a Ford Ranger. Whilst they say the Ranger will Tow 3.5 tonne, I would never tow that much with it. I agree that there are people towing out there that are complacent about weights and safety. There are also many cars that must overtake anyone towing anything and just cut in front of you. On a recent trip from Sydney to Shoulhaven heads I couldn believe the amount of drivers that overtook us and cut in front of us even though we were doing the posted speed limit. Even has some oxygen thief pull out in front of us from a rest stop and I had to break hard to avoid running into him. I even saw large caravans go past swaying on the road in the wind. At the caravan park there was a Prado towing a large off road caravan. I spoke with him and even though he new he was over weight, he thought he was still fine!
I think ther needs to be as much emphasis on teaching drivers about how their actions effect vehicles towing as there needs to be on correct weight distribution in caravans.
Will a caravan towing type of license reduce the amount of accidents! Maybe. But all the crap drivers on the road all had to sis a driving test and their still crap drivers!

 

[davemc]

Will a caravan towing type of license reduce the amount of accidents! Maybe. But all the crap drivers on the road all had to sis a driving test and their still crap drivers!

Yes like all those comments rego for bike riders. Not going to make them ride any better. As having license plates does not stop car drivers now being idiots. Anyone watch dash cam Australia

 

[millers]

Requiring a license to tow will only reduce the problem by a small amount (if at all). People will do what is required to pass the test, which will be mostly theory with a practical component that will not be too difficult to pass.
Like all driving the real learning comes from actually doing it and experiencing and resolving the issues.
The other part like other road rules is that you will be fined for not having one but not encouraged to learn once you have one.

Finally and unfortunately there will still be the people who:
a. tow to instructions (rules) and will not be able to handle anything not covered by the rules (covers the 1st km but not the next 7,000);
b. Just do not care, or worse want to be aggressive about it;
c. those that are not towing (do not need the license) but still cut you off, try to pass you on the left while you turn left, pull in front of you because they do not want to be behind you.

Example:
10km outside of Yunta passed by another caravan on a narrow stretch only to have them pull up at Yunta and have afternoon tea. Speed difference less then 5km (I had slowed for another caravan knowing I would refuel at Yunta). Then to watch them pass the caravan in front with less than ideal road shoulders. Time difference 1/2 minute, They where getting out of the 4x4 as we pulled into Yunta.

 

[Mick]

I am like Rockape have the same set up and also been towing various sized trailers and caravans for more than 15 years.
do I think a towing course is good yes if you have never towed a van before and turning up to the dealer and asking for that all new latest van and oh I want every thing on it and the dealer saying what's your tug oh you will have no worries towing with that but forgetting to mention about your load limits. on the other hand if there was such a licence what sort of cost would be applied to it then some states would have different rulings just to make it even more complicated but as I have seen and by the looks of others also have had the same experience with road muppets .

 

[Lap Dog]

I must say I am a little confused here. Are we concluding that education is a bad thing? Are we saying a doctor with theory training is better than one with none. Do we think we should scrap all education and just do all practical? If you want to be an electrician, you need to stay at home with mum and dad until you do an apprenticeship at 12 years of age and start from there... no TAFE, no standards, no theory, no tests....

Practice is better than education plus practice... If am confused!

 

[bigcol]

Practice is better than education plus practice... If am confused!

the main argument against training is..........
they cannot get the road rules standardized across Australia yet.......
WA - 100Km max when towing ANYTHING
rest of Aust - open slather (dont know as I dont travel there yet.......)

dont forget, at a federal level we have a Gov. that cannot make its mind up about same sex marriage
or
an opposition that could not organise getting insulation into houses
and
they BOTH screwed the NBN
the NBN envisioned by Labor was so that there is 1 portal to the WWW, and they can police what goes in and out on it, as well as finding out who is buying what where, then on selling in Aust so they can tax.......(think Big Brother)
Liberal didnt like the idea of 1 portal, and have made it so there will end up being several now

anyway
with a proven track record of inadequately implementing standardized training and assessment Australia wide
there will never be an end to this debate

in the last 3 months, the longest between head on crashes on Indian Ocean Drive is 4 days
the state gov. is asking why.........

because people are stupid and even though they have had training and assessment to get a drivers licence,they still think its fine to overtake on hills and on corners

1/3 of me says let nature take its course - except I may be on the other end of one of these Darwin Award winners

in 1989 when I went to get my C class licence (semi..... MC now) I was offered an F250 with a 40' trailer to learn in - from a Major Training company in Perth......
I ended up doing it with a B series Mack Econodine - (a real truck - as such.....) .. with lessons from people driving doubles up and down Northwest Coastal Hwy in the Pilbara
then I sat the test.........

now
I am not saying the F250 was wrong
but
it would give the wrong type of training to be driving something that big.......
thankfully they dont do that nowdays



now, back to your comments @Lap Dog
no - nothing wrong with training and assessment,

but how do you police the trainers......... to make sure they are Passing those who can, or FAILING those that do, and not just take the money and pass everyone who pays