Overloading

Crusty181

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Feb 7, 2010
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Mentone, VIC
Theres an increasing incidence of weigh bridge road checks being utilised around Oz to measure the roadworthiness of caravans, and checking ball weights and ATMs and GVMs with some pretty horrid stories of people being forced to unhitch on the side of the road because either the car or the van exceeds its plated limits.

We headed down to Wye River on the Grand Final weekend. With the planned mods for our van all but finalised it was a good opportunity to load it up for a simulated extended trip to fine tune the packing and tow hitch heights ext, and to see how it handled. All good on that front …. and weigh it on the way back.

On the way back, we hit the public weigh bridge on the Geelong Road and thats where it all went pear shaped. Ive rounded up the figures so its easier to get the picture.

The Mighty Navara was a whopping 300kg overloaded, and the Behemoth was 100kg overloaded. We didn’t have a lot of the stuff onboard we would be planning to take away on an extended trip. The ball weight was right on the vans and cars limited, but because of the proportional reduction as the car approaches its GVM, the ball weight was now well over. I expected the ball weight with the alum box on the draw bar packed up with little thought, but the rest threw me a massive curve ball.

The car has a cargo capacity of a ton, and because we poo poo’ed the slide out lounge and added that weight back to the ATM as cargo, out van has a unique (for a Jayco) cargo capacity of 600kg.

The alum tool box on the draw bar only carries what most people would load into theirs vans by default, and the box itself is only robbing a measly 30kg for the added convenience. In our case the van is also unique because the removal of the slide out lounge removed 100kg form the front of the van and left the ball weight a dangerously low 145kg, so for a 30kg sacrifice the tool box added “required” weight and a lot of convenience. The only extra in the box that not everyone would be carrying was the 2kVA generator at 25kg and diesel fuel tank at 10kg. The rest was chairs, shade mesh sun walls, hoses, ramps etc …… plus a lot of air. We didn’t even have generator fuel, but both water tanks were full.

Ive spent a lot of time jerking around with the van with mods etc, but other than the 30kg tool box none have added weight, in fact some have reduced the weight.

The 100kg over loaded van itself has an added additional 120ah battery at 35kg, but I removed the 2 plastic concertina curtains and the glass shower screen, saving most of that at 30kg. As the Princess lamented we only had onboard clothing and food for a weekend as well …. not only could we add not one single pair of socks, we had to find at least (and preferably more) 100kg to remove from the van

The 300kg overloaded car had on fleeting glance the added weight of a kayak at 25kg, and kayak gear at 30kg (I couldn’t be bothered sorting what I need for the kayak so I took the lot), and the Engel which lives in the car anyway. We had 80ltrs of fuel onboard, along with “us” at 200kg. So all in all, removing what I was carrying including all the fuel would put us marginally under ….. but its pretty hard to enjoy the holiday when we’re not in the car …. which has no fuel anyway.

So the long and short of it is the cars carrying capacity is all well and truly gobbled up with the other bolt on stuff, canopy, bullbar, winch, alum trade tray, V1 hitch, and 300kg van ball weight. I have a long range tank but it was only half full at the time.

I did for a fleeting moment contemplate upgrading the mythical tow master da da drrrrrrr, the Landcruiser. But typical of most bloated, overrated so called legends ….. that would just put me 300+kg further in the sh!t because it can’t match the Mighty Navara’s carrying capacity. (lucky for me because I don’t have a lazy 50 gorillas lying around)

I can get around the van weight, after searching cabinet by cabinet Ive culled 130kg from the van at the expense of one of the DC batteries and half the front tank of water. But th car is a different matter; its a whopping 300kg so Ill be stripping off accessories i order get the weight down starting with the canopy and winch. I have the canopy for work, so Im not too fussed about that one. The winch was a toy, so disappointed but oh well …..

I will get the weight under, but its going to be tight and the car will basically look like its straight out of the dealership with both the car and van basically empty. And to honest if im to arrogant or to stupid and be 400kg overloaded, I should be put off the road
 
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Dobbie

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Jun 18, 2014
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Yeah. It's an interesting exercise and one that few do.

We knew we were close when we first put stuff in our van and went to the ridiculous extent of weighing everything. Surprising results. Ended up so tight with weight we changed our navara for a patrol, purely for the towing weights.

The extras we try to cull, not always successfully.

Good on you for treating it seriously. I suspect many don't.
 

davemc

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Oct 29, 2013
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Viewbank, Victoria
www.expandasdownunder.com
I want to weigh the 22 when I did the ball the other day it hovering around 290 mark so will empty the front tank when I get around to it and try again. Our ATM is 2780 which I think we close as 22 has a tare of 2305 add 320kgs of water 3 tanks/hot water and two gas bottles.
We have added a solar panel and bike rack after the factory.
Our axle rating is 2900 and I wonder how close we are getting.
Be interesting where the Disco fits I would think we should be fine GVM well hopefully.
 

Dobbie

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Jun 18, 2014
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You might have to post your diesel heater to your destination.

Or should we not mention them.

One thing we noticed when we did our laborious weight test, when setting up the van, was the surprising weight of things like plastic boxes and the plastic drawer unit we put in the wardrobe space.

And the total weight of what we considered to be a basic but well stocked pantry. Had to adjust the balance towards basic rather than well stocked.

We had to change our thinking a bit to " what do we really need" rather than " we might need that so throw it in".
Not easy when you're on the road for a few months and climatic changes are certain.

I was considering a roof basket to make carrying chairs etc easier and had forgotten to consider the weight so this post has been a timely reminder to me. No roof basket.

Have found a tow ball scale very useful....it gives us a better idea of how close we are on ball weight, obviously, but if high that usually means we're nudging up in gvm etc.
 
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Fabulous

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Feb 26, 2013
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Melbourne
yes, have often wondered how ours would go. My 4wd club is having a session in a couple of weeks, so will go and weigh the Nissan and the van - I expect t be close - hopefully not over.......
 

davemc

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Oct 29, 2013
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Crusty maybe you might know a cabinet maker who could make light doors for you ;)
The table in the 22 feels heavier the. The one in the 17 although they both that foam middle?
Yes we have a lot of empty overheads in the 22 now which I do not want to fill just for fun.

All of the camp chairs and tables and Webber would add up.
 

Dobbie

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Jun 18, 2014
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What's the weight of a loaded Waeco or Engel?

I can't lift one so would think it would be significant. I'd forgotten to add that.

Maybe someone could set up a simple spreadsheet or such so we have some real idea of what our allowance is, based on the plated rate of both van and vehicle and the approx weight of the things we add?

I'm sure the authorities use something like that.
 

Drover

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Nov 7, 2013
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I don't want to know mine as the old Truckie 6th sense knows it's not whats on the plate........To do it all properly strip the van and ute down to the basic and get a tare weight then you will know a starting point which more than likely is more than advertised, as I doubt any 2 vehicles will be the same, steel rims are heavier than alloy not to mention the size of the rubber so many variables but without having a tare to start from your will be guessing all the time.

I've upped my rims from 1ton to 1120kgs and my tyres have gone from original 900kg (which was wrong anyway) to 1125kg and my springs are bigger as well just to cover things but would hate to be hit by the scalies. Ball weight seems good though.
 
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MDS69

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Jul 6, 2014
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Timely thread thank you @Crusty181 .
I would like to ask a question because it doesn't matter how many google links I read or comments here I still get confused.
My van has
ATM 1920Kg
GTM 1759Kg

Does this mean my allowance for water, gas, clothes, food, cutlery, chairs etc is 1920 - 1759 = 161kg.
 

Tone

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Nov 27, 2014
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Timely thread thank you @Crusty181 .
I would like to ask a question because it doesn't matter how many google links I read or comments here I still get confused.
My van has
ATM 1920Kg
GTM 1759Kg

Does this mean my allowance for water, gas, clothes, food, cutlery, chairs etc is 1920 - 1759 = 161kg.
Find out what your Tare weight is the difference between that and your ATM is, is what extra you can carry. Your figure of 161kg will be your ball weight. This pic explains it well.
 

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Moto Mech

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Jul 18, 2012
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Went through this a year ago. After adding lots of stuff to our van, we were well over weight and had to heavy a ball weight.
To combat this, I ditched the second battery(havent noticed any difference running one battery), got rid of one 9kg gas bottle(have one 9 and one 4kg gas bottles), moved battery out of front boot to under van near axle.
If we fill all 3 60lt water tanks up we are still over weight but usually only fill 2 (filling 3rd if we gunna go somewhere without water) which has our weight just under. Getting the two batteries out of front boot and gas bottle off draw bar sorted ball weight.
With our 100 series, im waiting on my GVM mod plate to come back, upping it from 3.3t to 3.8t which will keep that legal......just. By the time I fill long range tank(180lts-270lts all up) along with draws, rear bar/jerry can holder, 60lt fridge, steel roof rack, bullbar, winch etc its a whale
 
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MDS69

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Jul 6, 2014
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Find out what your Tare weight is the difference between that and your ATM is, is what extra you can carry. Your figure of 161kg will be your ball weight. This pic explains it well.

Thanks @Tone. There is no Tare weight stamped on the compliance plate but I do recall a weigh bridge sticker in the owners wallet. Will have to dig that out and the calculator.
 

Crusty181

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Feb 7, 2010
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Mentone, VIC
Crusty maybe you might know a cabinet maker who could make light doors for you ;)
The table in the 22 feels heavier the. The one in the 17 although they both that foam middle?
Yes we have a lot of empty overheads in the 22 now which I do not want to fill just for fun.

All of the camp chairs and tables and Webber would add up.
The overhead cabinet doors are hollow core and theyre so light (read flimsy) screws pull out of them .... dont want them any lighter, or they float off
 

Crusty181

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2010
6,854
13,971
113
Mentone, VIC
Timely thread thank you @Crusty181 .
I would like to ask a question because it doesn't matter how many google links I read or comments here I still get confused.
My van has
ATM 1920Kg
GTM 1759Kg

Does this mean my allowance for water, gas, clothes, food, cutlery, chairs etc is 1920 - 1759 = 161kg.
The diffence of 161kg btw your ATM and GVM is your ball weight. Im surprised you dont have a tare weight listed. All Jaycos have predetermined cargo capacity and for a single axel non shower model its 300kg (total inclusive of your water and gass) so your Tare is your 1920 ATM minus 300 ... ie 1620kg. But Jayco will have a record of it to confirm. With full water and gas your limited to cargo of 210kg
 

Crusty181

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2010
6,854
13,971
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Mentone, VIC
Went through this a year ago. After adding lots of stuff to our van, we were well over weight and had to heavy a ball weight.
To combat this, I ditched the second battery(havent noticed any difference running one battery), got rid of one 9kg gas bottle(have one 9 and one 4kg gas bottles), moved battery out of front boot to under van near axle.
If we fill all 3 60lt water tanks up we are still over weight but usually only fill 2 (filling 3rd if we gunna go somewhere without water) which has our weight just under. Getting the two batteries out of front boot and gas bottle off draw bar sorted ball weight.
With our 100 series, im waiting on my GVM mod plate to come back, upping it from 3.3t to 3.8t which will keep that legal......just. By the time I fill long range tank(180lts-270lts all up) along with draws, rear bar/jerry can holder, 60lt fridge, steel roof rack, bullbar, winch etc its a whale
Im organising a GVM rebadge, who did yours. There is differing views as to whether they apply outside the state they are provided
 

MDS69

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Jul 6, 2014
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The diffence of 161kg btw your ATM and GVM is your ball weight. Im surprised you dont have a tare weight listed. All Jaycos have predetermined cargo capacity and for a single axel non shower model its 300kg (total inclusive of your water and gass) so your Tare is your 1920 ATM minus 300 ... ie 1620kg. But Jayco will have a record of it to confirm. With full water and gas your limited to cargo of 210kg

Thanks for that. So I optioned a 2nd water tank and 2nd gas bottle from new so you could estimate 82kg in water + tank and 9kg in gas + bottle to come out of that 210kg leaving me approx. 100kg for bedding, food, clothes, chairs etc. Looks like a lot of 2 minute noodles. Might turn the 2nd water tank into a beer tank.
 
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Crusty181

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Feb 7, 2010
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Mentone, VIC
Thanks for that. So I optioned a 2nd water tank and 2nd gas bottle from new so you could estimate 82kg in water + tank and 9kg in gas + bottle to come out of that 210kg leaving me approx. 100kg for bedding, food, clothes, chairs etc. Looks like a lot of 2 minute noodles. Might turn the 2nd water tank into a beer tank.
Ha. Shower models get and extra 75kg in theyre carrying capacity to account for the extra 100kg a second tank and bottle add (go figure), not sure how, if any, adjustment is made for just a second tank. I suspect there would be added capacity, but the dealer will confirm
 
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icetechaus

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Nov 21, 2012
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Surely we have a bored mechanical engineer on here that would love to sit down and work out the real figures for their van rather than the propaganda that is stamped on the plate.