Expanda17.56-2 what options should we get?

[straydingo]

Section 54 of the Act is applicable when the vehicles in question are legally allowed to be on the road. If over weight, they are illegal and thus insurance can be voided. This can be argued on 2 fronts - a) the vehicles should not have been on the road, and b) that there was an omission in telling the insurer that the vehicle was over weight limit.

It would still be hard to argue that the weight of the van wasn't a contributing factor (unless a plane fell on it) - Did the excess weight result in the momentum being greater than in normal circumstances? Did the excess weight mean that brakes were less effective and thus the vehicle was unable to avoid the accident that others caused? Did the excess weight mean that the driver's action were different in any way than if loaded less.

Its a big legal mess.....

 

[Matty4]

Its a big legal mess.....

EXACTLY!!!!!.......and it's one mess thats easily avoided by having a tow vehicle that is fit for purpose.

My brothers wife runs her own insurance brokerage firm and some of the horror stories I hear about her fights with insurance companies:jaw:

Anyway,:focus:

 

[achjimmy]

Wow - What an intriguing and great discussion - lots in there that we have been thinking about - I'm going to have to go through and put in a vote of thanks for some of the entries. As a result I have gone back and asked the dealer for an estimated ATM with all the extras we want - have included extra length Aframe and simplicity suspension, external shower (but not the 16 inch wheels - could not see the point as the Prado has 17 inch so not interchangeable) - estimate that came back was ATM of 2400 to 2450 - cutting it very fine given our max tow weight of the Prado is 2500kg. This means busybusydad will have to stongly veto everything 4 girls and I want to pack and I will tell him NO GOLFSTICKS! or he will have to leave one of the kids at home. Lucky we have lightweight kids! Next vehicle will have to be a 200series cruiser I think!

Golf CLUBS like fishing gear are exempt for any ATM ;-)

 

[straydingo]

Next vehicle will have to be a 200series cruiser I think!

Just to rain on that one also but watch the load capacity on those. Although they can pull 3500kg, depending on which model they can only take around 620-740kg of passengers, luggage, fuel and towball. (80 Series and 150 Prados actually get more). However, a positive is if you buy one new, the suspension can be upgraded by ARB or EFS to allow an additional 500kg. A new compliance plate is installed advising the new GVM weight. No problem before the first registration. After a vehicle has been registered, it is theoretically possible but costs a lot more and needs engineering certificates, even if only a day later, but I'm yet to find a Melbourne engineer willing to do it (or even returning calls)

And yeah, gotta agree with Jim, golf clubs are exempt

 

[Klugerclan]

Straydingo, your arguement is based on the assumption that you know you have overloaded your vehicle and it is overweight. We are doing best endeavours to make sure we will be under the 2000kg limit for the Kluger (incidentally it is rated for 2,300kg in the US). Base weight pre-extras is 1,657 so we are confident we can keep within range.

Having said this we now have a Discovery 3 on the shopping list as this sorts out all our problems, driveway from hell etc. But we do owe it to the Kluger to give her a try and see how she goes.

 

[straydingo]

Yes that's true, but only for the actions of the driver in the 'event'. Unfortunately, in legal arguments (if it got to that point) ignorance is never an excuse.

Ignorantia legis neminem excusat (Latin for "ignorance of the law excuses no-one" or similar) has been a legal principle since Roman law.
"The maxim that ignorance of the law does not excuse any subject represents the working hypothesis on which the rule of law rests in British democracy. That maxim applies in legal theory just as much to written as to unwritten law, i.e., to statute law as much as to common law or equity. But the very justification for that basic maxim is that the whole of our law, written or unwritten, is accessible to the public - in the sense, of course, that, at any rate, its legal advisers have access to it, at any moment, as of right." Justice Michael Moore 2009
(http://www.fedcourt.gov.au/aboutct/judges_papers/speeches_moorej3.html) if it doesn't put you to sleep

In the case of vehicles on the road, the legal assumption is that the driver is aware of all aspects of said vehicles and thus takes responsibility for them.

Having said that, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I expect that when my van arrives, the towball will be over limit for my current vehicle, so I'm doing exactly what I am advocating we shouldn't. Like you I'm also looking at a Disco, (or a Land cruiser with upgraded suspension) as an answer, but in the real word, funds don't allow it at the moment. So for the next few months I have to accept the risks for my actions - hence the research on this matter. (I'm not an insurance and law junkie....really!!!)

 

[achjimmy]

Just to rain on that one also but watch the load capacity on those. Although they can pull 3500kg, depending on which model they can only take around 620-740kg of passengers, luggage, fuel and towball. (80 Series and 150 Prados actually get more). However, a positive is if you buy one new, the suspension can be upgraded by ARB or EFS to allow an additional 500kg. A new compliance plate is installed advising the new GVM weight. No problem before the first registration. After a vehicle has been registered, it is theoretically possible but costs a lot more and needs engineering certificates, even if only a day later, but I'm yet to find a Melbourne engineer willing to do it (or even returning calls)

And yeah, gotta agree with Jim, golf clubs are exempt

Are the 200 series still upgradable, read elsewhere this loop is closed in NSW now?

 

[straydingo]

Sorry Jim, don't know about NSW specifically. EFS still advertise their GVM upgrades are "recognised in all states", and Lovells talk about meeting the "National Code" rather than State's....
ARB in NSW would be a good one to confirm with as they are one of the approved installers for Old Man Emu upgrades. (Must be done at approved installers only).

 

[Klugerclan]

Stray Dingo, I do hear you, but with Australian law and retail products it can be difficult for an insurer to deny a claim unless it is a very clear cut call. As someone else has mentioned, some insurers allow for a percentage over the weight limit. In my experience if you feel aggrieved ( as you would) involve dispute resolution, fight hard ie get the ombudsman involved and the insurer will not risk the bad press.

All theoretical as we have been suggesting and as an insurer will say, every claim is different and will be judged on its own merits.

Good luck to all, and let's hope it doesn't happen.