Ducted heating
- Thread starter Turtle
- Start date
Hi @Turtle. Ha. Here i go again. Theres a ground swell of opinion that I have an un-natural love of my diesel heater. I have a twin duct Eberspacher diesel (sold by Dometic)
Gas v diesel. The end result, being lovely constant comfortable heat which is independant of location and mains power is equall to both heaters.
Diesel is lower in initial cost and unlike gas, you can save the installation cost by DIY. The gas unit is more expensive, plus the necessary cost of a gas fitter to install. Theres also a lower cost diesel alternative to the Eberspacher for around $1000.
The gas unit relies on the same fuel as the fridge, stove and hotwater, which is convenient but may reduce fuel available to the other appliances. Gas isnt as readily replenished as diesel, especially if you drive a diesel car. If you drive a petrol car, a further dirty oily fuel to carry might swing the vote toward gas. Gas has a flue that needs to be covered when not in use, and therefor uncovered before you can turn it on.
My diesel tank is mounted at the front of the van and within service station hose length when im filling the car, so very convenient to fill. Used reasonably constantly morning and night, a 10 litre tank should last about 7ish days. Not sure about the gas, but i suspect its similar. @achjimmy might chime in with the view from a gas heater owners perspective.
The diesel dose pump has been said by a few to be an issue with its continual "ticking". I struggle to hear it, and its attached to the chassis under our bed. When its running, outside you get and occasional whiff of light fumes dependant on wind. The diesel can be left running when the van is moving (why, im not sure. But you can)
The Eberspacher has 3 levels of controller, 2 being electronically controlled and one of those is programable like home ducted heater .... very cool
The combustion air inlet and exhaust for the diesel heater is under the van, the gas flue through the wall. The diesel exhaust is relatively quiet, but running on full the air intake is noticable
Im trying desperately to be fair ..... but its true im afraid, im obsessed with my diesel heater.
Gas v diesel. The end result, being lovely constant comfortable heat which is independant of location and mains power is equall to both heaters.
Diesel is lower in initial cost and unlike gas, you can save the installation cost by DIY. The gas unit is more expensive, plus the necessary cost of a gas fitter to install. Theres also a lower cost diesel alternative to the Eberspacher for around $1000.
The gas unit relies on the same fuel as the fridge, stove and hotwater, which is convenient but may reduce fuel available to the other appliances. Gas isnt as readily replenished as diesel, especially if you drive a diesel car. If you drive a petrol car, a further dirty oily fuel to carry might swing the vote toward gas. Gas has a flue that needs to be covered when not in use, and therefor uncovered before you can turn it on.
My diesel tank is mounted at the front of the van and within service station hose length when im filling the car, so very convenient to fill. Used reasonably constantly morning and night, a 10 litre tank should last about 7ish days. Not sure about the gas, but i suspect its similar. @achjimmy might chime in with the view from a gas heater owners perspective.
The diesel dose pump has been said by a few to be an issue with its continual "ticking". I struggle to hear it, and its attached to the chassis under our bed. When its running, outside you get and occasional whiff of light fumes dependant on wind. The diesel can be left running when the van is moving (why, im not sure. But you can)
The Eberspacher has 3 levels of controller, 2 being electronically controlled and one of those is programable like home ducted heater .... very cool
The combustion air inlet and exhaust for the diesel heater is under the van, the gas flue through the wall. The diesel exhaust is relatively quiet, but running on full the air intake is noticable
Im trying desperately to be fair ..... but its true im afraid, im obsessed with my diesel heater.
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The bit that swayed us to diesel is that you cannot by a litre of gas but you can diesel.
I went diesel because the unit is 1/3 the price and there are no install costs, plus the 20l jerry can I use for back up doubles as the heaters fuel tank. This is my second unit on my second van, first one from ebay and the other from aliexpress. the second was about $300 cheaper.
I worked out that they (gas vs diesel) cost about the same to run but it is a lot easier to get diesel and I wont run out of gas part way through the night because I cant see through the cylinder unlike a jerry can.
I worked out that they (gas vs diesel) cost about the same to run but it is a lot easier to get diesel and I wont run out of gas part way through the night because I cant see through the cylinder unlike a jerry can.
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I think you may have swayed me due to the diesel being able to be exhausted under the van
thanks for that, what brand do you run and was it the same in the old van?
@Crusty181 summed it up pretty well and fairly. Ebespacher v Truma is simalar $$ the Chinese alternatives make cost of entry very cheap and for a lot of people that's important. It's what suits you best after taking those things jnto consideration.
The gas is cleaner no doubt and quieter, and LPG doesn't go stale or get an algae if not used. If you have twin gas bottles and can see you won't run out whilst running it. You can install it Your self but you need a gas inspection, it cost me <$150. The gas has regs that make it harder to select a location.
Other considerations are van and usage dependent. For me I fill the cruiser from hi or super hi flow and so would need to move to another bowser to fill a 10l tank anyhow. With 150litre on board I don't carry a Jerry. Additionally I rarely fill any small tank without wearing the fuel and didn't want smelly deisel hanging around my box, stonestomper and vinyl front. On our SC the heater had to go inboard of the chassis rail which meant the exhaust was under the Floor behind a chassis rail. The deisel heater guy I spoke with still suggests you cover the deisel heater outlet to avoid insects wasps etc when not in use! plus we have been known to cross the odd creek. That meant on your back on the ground to remove a cover, no thanks. I just moved my gas bayonets to avoid that. I was also not overly comfortable in exhausting diesel right under where I slept. Additionally under the SCs bed the deisel would need to take up more usable space as its inlet and exhaust are 180 to each other wher the gas is side by side so Was easier to tuck into the corner. Last consideration was weight, my van loaded up is right on the legal GVM can be over if I pack a couple of extra slabs of water or ale. And on it's ball wieght it's at a point that I notice if I put to much more up front >200kg. 10-12kg of deisel isn't much but it all adds up?
needs to be thought out and considered on a case by case. I would certainly look at diesel again on another van no question and the fact you can do a heater for under $800 is very attractive. Think ours was $1450 to buy plus my time and the gas inspection $150 .
Good luck with your decision , the heaters are a god send and open up opportunities for caravaning through winter. ours already has had more use than the roof top a/c in 2 caravans.
The gas is cleaner no doubt and quieter, and LPG doesn't go stale or get an algae if not used. If you have twin gas bottles and can see you won't run out whilst running it. You can install it Your self but you need a gas inspection, it cost me <$150. The gas has regs that make it harder to select a location.
Other considerations are van and usage dependent. For me I fill the cruiser from hi or super hi flow and so would need to move to another bowser to fill a 10l tank anyhow. With 150litre on board I don't carry a Jerry. Additionally I rarely fill any small tank without wearing the fuel and didn't want smelly deisel hanging around my box, stonestomper and vinyl front. On our SC the heater had to go inboard of the chassis rail which meant the exhaust was under the Floor behind a chassis rail. The deisel heater guy I spoke with still suggests you cover the deisel heater outlet to avoid insects wasps etc when not in use! plus we have been known to cross the odd creek. That meant on your back on the ground to remove a cover, no thanks. I just moved my gas bayonets to avoid that. I was also not overly comfortable in exhausting diesel right under where I slept. Additionally under the SCs bed the deisel would need to take up more usable space as its inlet and exhaust are 180 to each other wher the gas is side by side so Was easier to tuck into the corner. Last consideration was weight, my van loaded up is right on the legal GVM can be over if I pack a couple of extra slabs of water or ale. And on it's ball wieght it's at a point that I notice if I put to much more up front >200kg. 10-12kg of deisel isn't much but it all adds up?
needs to be thought out and considered on a case by case. I would certainly look at diesel again on another van no question and the fact you can do a heater for under $800 is very attractive. Think ours was $1450 to buy plus my time and the gas inspection $150 .
Good luck with your decision , the heaters are a god send and open up opportunities for caravaning through winter. ours already has had more use than the roof top a/c in 2 caravans.
I purchased the cheaper brand off ebay and installed it myself. Very happy with my Planar Diesel Heater.
They don't actually have a brand, its just what ever the seller calls it. They were both the same unit, the ebay one was called a PLANAR and the aliexpress (which is where ebay sellers buy from) is just listed as a diesel heater, both were the grey and black coloured units. The aliexpress unit cost me $468.35 au delivered. With the crap au$ you can only save just over $100 going ali instead of ebay.
Remember with gas if you run it 10h a night you cylinder is only going to last you 5 days add you hot water, fridge and cooking to this usage.... 3-4 days from a cylinder? just make sure you don't go to far away from bunnings when its cold.
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You'd have to have the DNA of a lizard to run the heater 10 hours a day. I don't think you could, ours runs for about 30-45mins even on high before the burner goes out. We don't sleep with it on either we have blankets.
If you really want to go off the grid you have more things to worry about gas or even diesel. The only thing that has ever curtailed our stops is water. With family of 4 or 5 and showering you struggle to stay anywhere overly long without water.
Btw I don't fill up at Bunnings either. Maybe that's where some go wrong, there not real good at filling your bottles I generally use somebody who actually puts 9kg of gas in my bottle instead of 7kg.
For the last couple of nights, and tonight as well, the heater was on by 5pm and goes off at 0730. The only way it could be better would to be back home and not using it at all. Been travelling North and currently just above Dubbo.
I've had a really good look around the van for an installation location and am thinking diesel again as exhausting though the floor gives me heaps of options.
I can't actually find a location to exhaust through the wall without reclaiming cupboard space
I can't actually find a location to exhaust through the wall without reclaiming cupboard space
A bit of useful info from the World Intra'web, which may help others to decide between Diesel and Gas. Although Im learning in reverse, the more I read about diesel heaters, the more Im glad a opted for the Eberspacher. Not that theres anything wrong with the cheaper brands, just the Eberspacher is quite advance with automatic set and forget operation and its own fault diagnosis, which I leant yesterday actually works. A practical example was the issues @michelle menzel recently had with their recent heater instal. Although the problem was simple and corrected easily, yesterday my Eberspacher experienced the same problem and the heater told me what the problem was and what he fix was ... very cool.
Eberspacher diesel with 10 litre tank running flat out would last 43 hours, Truma E2400 with a 9kg bottle would last 52 hours. But that is flat out for both, in reality the fuel usage would plummet once the van was at temp. The longer the heater is left on at each run, and the less cold starts, the better the fuel economy. I know with my diesel once at temp, the heater has a very easy life maintaining the temp on low barely functioning. The gas would obviously be the same. On the Queens birthday 3 day long weekend in Echuca it was freezing at night but pleasant during the day. I left the diesel heater on for the entire 3 days, so it ran over night with the temp turned down to 16deg, and it used 3.5 ltrs over the 3 days. It turned itself off during the day, and turned itself back on in the late afternoon when the temp went down. Because it has 3 auto settings, its comes on low and quiet.
That would give me a realistic capacity of up to 9ish days on one tank with the heater continuously on, but maintaining temp, and at the very least a conservative 7 days. The gas heater uses less fuel, around 20% less, tank for tank, so the 9kg bottle should last maybe 11 or 12 days continuous. I certainly don't head into freezing free camping for 11 or 12 days, so in reality the gas v diesel usage is semantics. With the initially thought of steering away for the Truma because Id run out of gas, I manage the gas now for the other appliances and have never run out of gas yet.
A only real dilemma would be heading free camping for a few days, and the relative effort required to satisfy yourself theres enough gas to support all the vans requirements, in comparison to just putting a litre of diesel in a tank. The diesel is very visual, and easy to just top up. But good planning would alleviate that dilemma.
The diesel, on high, pushes more air than the gas so is noisier. But the trade off is the Truma is either on or off, and the diesel (Eberspacher anyway) has 3 auto setting levels. The upshot is at start up the diesel is noisy, but then calms down to almost inaudible, the Truma is quieter than the Eberspacher but only at startup, and the gas is audible whenever its cycling. @achjimmy could confirm, that the suggestion is the Eberspacher with the 3 settings more effectively maintains a constant temp because it has the capacity to adjust thru the 3 settings, whereas the Truma's one speed on or off, fluctuates the vans temp much like the aircon does.
Another consideration for the gas heater is apparently the flue can't be located too close to a door or window, not sure what that distance is but apparently that can, on some vans, make it impossible to instal with where it can be physically be mounted conflicting with where is can be legally mounted.
I had to take the Cruskett to work with me yesterday. He sat in the van watching TV and playing Xbox. It was 8 deg so I put the diesel heater on (because I have one and I could). Even with the roller door up and the van close to the front I could smell the fumes throughout the factory. Im sure on the right day, in the right caravan park, in the right weather ..... someone nearby will get really pi$$ed off with the fumes. Out in the world you only get a little whiff of fumes every now and again.
Our exhaust is on the off side pointing at the neighbours, so they can share the joys. I presume that Truma wouldn't have that problem
Eberspacher diesel with 10 litre tank running flat out would last 43 hours, Truma E2400 with a 9kg bottle would last 52 hours. But that is flat out for both, in reality the fuel usage would plummet once the van was at temp. The longer the heater is left on at each run, and the less cold starts, the better the fuel economy. I know with my diesel once at temp, the heater has a very easy life maintaining the temp on low barely functioning. The gas would obviously be the same. On the Queens birthday 3 day long weekend in Echuca it was freezing at night but pleasant during the day. I left the diesel heater on for the entire 3 days, so it ran over night with the temp turned down to 16deg, and it used 3.5 ltrs over the 3 days. It turned itself off during the day, and turned itself back on in the late afternoon when the temp went down. Because it has 3 auto settings, its comes on low and quiet.
That would give me a realistic capacity of up to 9ish days on one tank with the heater continuously on, but maintaining temp, and at the very least a conservative 7 days. The gas heater uses less fuel, around 20% less, tank for tank, so the 9kg bottle should last maybe 11 or 12 days continuous. I certainly don't head into freezing free camping for 11 or 12 days, so in reality the gas v diesel usage is semantics. With the initially thought of steering away for the Truma because Id run out of gas, I manage the gas now for the other appliances and have never run out of gas yet.
A only real dilemma would be heading free camping for a few days, and the relative effort required to satisfy yourself theres enough gas to support all the vans requirements, in comparison to just putting a litre of diesel in a tank. The diesel is very visual, and easy to just top up. But good planning would alleviate that dilemma.
The diesel, on high, pushes more air than the gas so is noisier. But the trade off is the Truma is either on or off, and the diesel (Eberspacher anyway) has 3 auto setting levels. The upshot is at start up the diesel is noisy, but then calms down to almost inaudible, the Truma is quieter than the Eberspacher but only at startup, and the gas is audible whenever its cycling. @achjimmy could confirm, that the suggestion is the Eberspacher with the 3 settings more effectively maintains a constant temp because it has the capacity to adjust thru the 3 settings, whereas the Truma's one speed on or off, fluctuates the vans temp much like the aircon does.
Another consideration for the gas heater is apparently the flue can't be located too close to a door or window, not sure what that distance is but apparently that can, on some vans, make it impossible to instal with where it can be physically be mounted conflicting with where is can be legally mounted.
I had to take the Cruskett to work with me yesterday. He sat in the van watching TV and playing Xbox. It was 8 deg so I put the diesel heater on (because I have one and I could). Even with the roller door up and the van close to the front I could smell the fumes throughout the factory. Im sure on the right day, in the right caravan park, in the right weather ..... someone nearby will get really pi$$ed off with the fumes. Out in the world you only get a little whiff of fumes every now and again.
Our exhaust is on the off side pointing at the neighbours, so they can share the joys. I presume that Truma wouldn't have that problem
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Thanks @Crusty181 for your detailed informative posts. I ordered an Eberspacher last week from Caravans plus - they appeared to be on special - however not to be - they upgraded their software/website last weekend and there was a major glitch which threw their high priced items out of kilter. Upshot being I had to pay some more money - not to worry. Your comments have reinforced my decision to go with the Eberspacher.
In our previous van I installed a Truma gas heater which did work very well - however we chewed through a bottle of gas very quickly at Hall's Gap two years ago and this influenced our decision to go for diesel this time.
Thanks again for your comments and also yours @achjimmy.
Bill
In our previous van I installed a Truma gas heater which did work very well - however we chewed through a bottle of gas very quickly at Hall's Gap two years ago and this influenced our decision to go for diesel this time.
Thanks again for your comments and also yours @achjimmy.
Bill
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Hey Bill I suspect the higher usage on the 16' was Probably due to the openness of the model with bed ends and poptop? I have a Mate who is a HvAC specialist and he had a fit when he seen how open the Expanda was said it was like trying to heat a tent !
I think you are probably correct Jim - the wind was blowing a gale as well that night in Hall's Gap - that would have made the job that much harder! Glad to see you have been using your van - unlike us. I hope to retire in 6-12 months then there will be no stopping Anne and I!
Bill
Another great balanced post @Crusty181 the basic truma controller has 4 or 5 settings. That is your thermostat setting. Once on the fan speed is constant and depending on the number the burner cycles in and out to maintain temp. You can also just run the fan alone ??? The thermostat is located in the controller so ideally you locate it where you want the temperature to be gauged from. There is an additional remote thermostat avaiable if you wish to locate the controller in one location but it doesn't suit for optimal measuring of the temperature. You can buy an optional electronic controller that turns it on and off by preset times etc etc maybe like the ebespacher one? I have looked closely at it as i didn't have a need for it.
Yes location for the inlet/exhaust is the gauging factor. Under a window is a no no unless you rivet t loses which is what @AndrewC did or you can by an interlock to disable the heater when the window is opened. Bit of a toss really as you don't go opening windows when your cold anyway. But it's right to say that compliance is the biggest issue with installing an LPG heater.
The other issue not mentioned yet is battery useage. The diesel with its glow plug design uses a lot more power depending on how many times the glow plug has to ignite as opposed to the truma only using power to run the 12v fan and pizio ignition. TBH this was banded around a lot more in the past than now. With modern vans power usage with LED and solar is a non issues.
What's interesting not so much to us but going forward with other makes is aprrantly the Truma combi HWS is also now licensed for sale in AU . I think this means that your gas HWS is also your gas ducted heater?
http://www.seabreeze-industries.com.au/products/Truma-Combi-2E-4E-Gas-heater-685.htm
http://www.seabreeze-industries.com.au/products/Truma-Combi-2E-4E-Gas-heater-685.htm
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