Y62 Patrol

[davemc]

to many friends with disco's and I have seen what happens when they get a few years on them, when the suspension goes, seats, crap out, etc and everything starts at a grand to fix . Not really too sure on the seating room in them as well, I see them as more akin to the Pajero in terms of internal luggage space, without the Pajero extra boot space from where the 3rd row normally hides.

this is our second Disco I swore we not get another after the D3 although it was 10 years old.
If it sneezes your up for $.
Chat to me in 5 years time

Apart from the 200 we could not find something diesel that would tow and fit 4 kids.
She liked the VX I did not like the price

 

[Doc]

<snip>
Actually it's funny how people use lack of dealer support in the bush for discounting the disco but Nissan wouldn't be far behind?.. really the only two maybe three brands with every town support is 1. Toyota 2. GMH 3. Ford.

<snip>.

Have owned a couple of Nissan's now, and can't say that Ive ever lamented the lack of dealer support in what you call "the bush" (I didn't live on this quaint little island down here all my life...). Of course, I have never been in the position of requiring dealer intervention/support for ANY vehicle brand I've owned in my ~30 years of remote area travel - and perhaps I am fortunate in that regard. (edit - to clarify - yes I HAVE had mechanical and electrical failures that have required support, but nothing that a specialist in the relevant field hasn't been able to sort out - dealers aren't magicians)

Not sure how many toyota dealers there are "in the bush" though either, let alone "every town support" as you claim. A mechanic with an OBD2 diagnostic tool, a phone, and a decent set of hand tools can work on a disco just as easily as he/she can work on a prado. When its all said and done, anything much more than a minor repair is going to require parts being ordered and delivered for ANY brand or model, or even the vehicle being recovered to a more major centre - whether it is an lc200, a disco, a y62 or a skoda...or a bentley.... It is unfortunate that the kind of myth you are encouraging is still prevalent in this day and age.

 

[Doc]

<snip>

Apart from the 200 we could not find something diesel that would tow and fit 4 kids.
<snip>

That is where people who have discovered Y62's come in....they tend not to be 'diesel tragics'.

Sort of more tangentially (and not specifically directed at you @davemc - just anecdotes), this is a very familiar story - you just need to look back a (very) few years ago...when many people would never consider buying a diesel engined vehicle because they were regarded as slow, dirty, smelly, and well....so painfully slow.

Then came along more modern diesel injection technologies. All of a sudden, manufacturers were marketing vehicles that were more closely able to compete with petrol engines with regard to performance and (almost) NVH. Economy was still really good, so much so that petrol engine 'tragics' were prepared to move to the dark side

'Old school' diesel 'tragics' however would never consider these modern diesels - they were too fragile (and arguably, still are).

So here we are today - aficionados of contemporary diesel engines holding onto THEIR preconceptions - same as people have done for years previously, from their own perspectives.

The interesting part is that there isn't much basis for it these days. When you can get diesel-rivalling economy at a fraction of the purchase price, with torque delivery that is in no way shaded by diesel, but with outright power that diesel can only dream of.....along with no complex and arguably fragile emission-related technologies... Lay down misere IMO. But then of course I think that - I've made my choice and enjoy the results it has provided.

 

[Dobbie]

I'm sort of sticking to the topic!

Mine is a Y61 and I'm happy with it but it's very minimal, particularly with the onboard electronics.

In one way, minimal is fine as there's less to go wrong and also for me to try to understand but I've been playing with the idea of a rear view camera and am very reluctant to add another screen ...

Then I found an aftermarket head unit advertised to replace the existing radio, cd system ...with a rather bright screen and, supposedly, to give camera vision as well as gps and cd etc. it would certainly clean up the dashboard a bit but....

Are these any good? Anybody installed one?

(I find it too colourful but that might be the advertising gumph I saw.....)

 

[Doc]

this is our second Disco I swore we not get another after the D3 although it was 10 years old.
If it sneezes your up for $.
Chat to me in 5 years time

<snip>

Regarding the Disco - IMO, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with these beasts - I believe the common issues encountered are more a product of how we use the vehicles, rather than any serious shortcomings.

WE (particularly in Aus) tend to push these things harder, further, load them heavier, and ask them to tow more (importantly, in adverse conditions and over longer distances) than other markets.

I think that the majority of the failures are because WE have not learned how to maintain these systems yet, in a way which prevents failure by replacing components before their mean time between failure (MTBF).

Whether it be selected components in an air suspension system (e.g. in the disco), or injectors (in many late model toyota diesel motors) as a couple of readily verifiable examples - EVERY system is made up of components, EVERY component has an MTBF, and a failure of one component in a system often disables the entire system - because we don't have much (or anything?) in the way of redundancy in consumer vehicle systems.

Another really good example (of which I have a personal view) is the timing chain on some builds on the YD25 nissan diesel engine. PLENTY of them worked just fine, and I am sure that nissan thought their engineering analysis was spot-on. Turns out, there were perhaps a few more variables that needed considering, and a few too many examples out there in the real world of an engine being uneconomical to repair following timing chain failure.

Thinking about things like the seats in the Disco's - at 130kg, I will kill the seat in a lot of vehicles. My wife is a shade over 50kg. That same seat would probably last her 5 lifetimes. When a seat starts to collapse (and many do - this is not exclusive to disco's - let's not try and sugar coat it), the owner always has the option of doing some maintenance on that seat. Motor trimmers are not hard to find, and for not much money will bring a collapsed seat back from the brink. (I just use that as an example, since seats like the big flat slabs in the Y62 work with my broad arse just fine, whereas seats like the full massaging adjustable bolster jobbies in other vehicles we've had, have suffered wear that is solely caused by the breadth of my butt.)

Dunno - I suppose the point of this post is that I think some people make adverse judgements about the quality of a vehicle, when in the end it has been poor original vehicle choice or lack of maintenance all along.

 

[Doc]

I'm sort of sticking to the topic!

Mine is a Y61 and I'm happy with it but it's very minimal, particularly with the onboard electronics.

In one way, minimal is fine as there's less to go wrong and also for me to try to understand but I've been playing with the idea of a rear view camera and am very reluctant to add another screen ...

Then I found an aftermarket head unit advertised to replace the existing radio, cd system ...with a rather bright screen and, supposedly, to give camera vision as well as gps and cd etc. it would certainly clean up the dashboard a bit but....

Are these any good? Anybody installed one?

(I find it too colourful but that might be the advertising gumph I saw.....)

Sticking to topics is for quitters

Mate, I've seen some really awesome aftermarket head units that are full touchscreen, very bright display etc. Some of the Android ones are getting truly excellent feedback for example, and at the price!!!! Brand-name aftermarket becomes hard to justify.

The double-din in your Y61 makes this a really really simple installation too. No custom wiring (just buy the correct adapter for plug and play) to worry about. What would by far take the longest is running the cabling for the camera installation. When we do these things ourselves we tend to take the time to get them just right - as WE want them.

I'd say go for it! Once you have a fully integrated system, you will probably wonder how you ever went so long without it. (I only went fully to bluetooth streamed music in the car a couple of years ago. Now days....if I had to use a CD, actually plug in a phone/ipod, or (heaven forbid) listen to commercial radio....I think I would be a gibbering wreck). The convenience of many of these newer features really does pay for itself in no time flat.

 

[davemc]

hey @Doc no offence mate this is our first Diesel we had a Petrol D3 I understand the pros and cons for each , there are a few threads on the Land Rover forum where they say if your looking 10 year old D3 get the petrol.

For us it was fuel cost and also with the 22 foot van we have been known to fill on high flow pumps on truck sites
With the D3 we where already 22-24 towing the 22.68 its dropped to 16-18 and less if I drive slow. Not as good as I talked to Mux people although that was ruled out as border line GCM issues and could not fit kids in
The wife already liked the Disco so she was happy upgrading to a new model.

We did 10k trip earlier this year and I took a spare tyre carcus with us I did not use. As yes you need to wait for parts and I knew a few people who had to wait for those low profile tyres remotely. Too much electronics I have a fault checker/reseter I brought for the D3

With Discos I am hoping this better with our new one. Not sure I would touch the D5 as its a new Landy
Problems I know off sorry going slightly off topic
1) Sensors they go then report stupid things.. We had to replace a few on the D3. Hence I brought the plugin tool to diagnose before turning engine off. Of course only lost one after I brought the tool
2) D3 had a air compressor that went ours did. They updated to a better one I have heard less failures with the new one.
3) When you changed the belt on the 2.7 diesel you did the fuel pump or some did not good chance it went took the engine, there was problems with seals when you did do the pump and again they went. Not heard the same with the 3.0 we have. There are a few D3's and early D4 with Ford Territory engines in them If you want to replace the engine its a body off job so big $ I know a few who done it without at home took them a long time
4) steering rack and front control arms/brushes go. We done both with the D3
5) Auto transmission says its sealed for life and not serviceable. So some people do not and pay the price.

Had no problem with the seat in the D3 and I am 130ish to Actually not heard about seats in D3.. Not sure this is something going back to D1 or D2. Thats the thing like most cars that kept the same model going there is always a bad one

 

[davemc]

back on topic I heard some great buys with the Patrol so if you can get one at a bargain price its worth the $ compared to the fuel.
I really wanted to get the MUX was a lot cheaper then our Disco

 

[achjimmy]

Have owned a couple of Nissan's now, and can't say that Ive ever lamented the lack of dealer support in what you call "the bush" (I didn't live on this quaint little island down here all my life...). Of course, I have never been in the position of requiring dealer intervention/support for ANY vehicle brand I've owned in my ~30 years of remote area travel - and perhaps I am fortunate in that regard. (edit - to clarify - yes I HAVE had mechanical and electrical failures that have required support, but nothing that a specialist in the relevant field hasn't been able to sort out - dealers aren't magicians)

Not sure how many toyota dealers there are "in the bush" though either, let alone "every town support" as you claim. A mechanic with an OBD2 diagnostic tool, a phone, and a decent set of hand tools can work on a disco just as easily as he/she can work on a prado. When its all said and done, anything much more than a minor repair is going to require parts being ordered and delivered for ANY brand or model, or even the vehicle being recovered to a more major centre - whether it is an lc200, a disco, a y62 or a skoda...or a bentley.... It is unfortunate that the kind of myth you are encouraging is still prevalent in this day and age.

Obviously not every town ffs but if you don't think Toyota dealers out strip the other by a fair margin one must wear horse blinkers traveling through towns. Even the ADF gave up their beloved LRs for toyotas for the "northern force" because nothing could match there support through out the top end. I recently stop in a BF town in nsw that didn't even have a pub and barely any people in town but had a Toyota dealer with a great supply parts for the area. Not mention the vast array of mechanics as you mention all who have great experience on the popular brands and models? Incendently for those that have the genuine Toyota extra warranty they will authorize any licensed mechanic to effect warranty repairs on your Toyota if needed (read the fine print only last week) If you don't think it's an issue have a discussion with @straydingo to know what it's like traveling through the centre in need of support?


Doc iam happy you love your Nissan like I indicated at the start people are going to defend their decision fiercely because it's there decision. Iam lucky iam not a brand loyalist and have the opportunity to deal with many marques and buy quite a few cars in my employment so I get to see it from another angle. I buy what suits me at the time. Iam am ex engine reconditionr and I don't see the modern diesel as fragile just people's perceptions yes there is some parts that are fussy but then there are huge benefits too . Oh and the other reason I didn't consider a Y62 was I have size 11 feet, I don't like the pi55y rear compartment for a vehicle that is the size of a block of flats and I don't like that in certain places I can't get the beloved petrol even opal and when I can their are certain people that will go to great lengths to borrow said petrol like lie underneath with a chisel to puncture the tank ! Come to think of it they won't drop petrol even opal in the canning now I think!


Buy what suits you and what you like their all great as I said they all do the job even the mighty Paj ball weight BS aside (oh why do they do that)

 

[achjimmy]

There's a really good article in unsealed 4X4 ATM about why diesel is likely to be killed off, worth a read. It's heavily based on euro thinking and that the world follows the euro trend (well we tend too) how that will go in the outback where there is problems with petrol will see. Maybe a bit like the euro compliance with bull bars. Not everything that works in Brussels will work in Burke ?

 

[bigcol]

not buying into the pi$$ing competition

but some like the Y62
some hate it

some like the 200
some hate it

some have had bad feelings and service from Nissan
some have had bad feelings and service from Toyota

its ALWAYS Nissan V's Toyota
Holden V's Ford
Supra V's Skyline

after sales service from Nissan is crap
but so is Toyota
so is Ford
so is Holden

Even the ADF gave up their beloved LRs for toyotas for the "northern force" because nothing could match there support through out the top end.

and now they are moving to Mercedes - they were cheaper than the Toyota, with less costs on spare parts

40c gets you an ice creme cone at Macca's

who really cares?????

 

[Doc]

This has gone far enough off the original question that I don't have anything of further value to add.

Jim - if you think the decision for ADF to move on from LR had anything to do with 'support'...youre kidding. Seriously kidding. The LR fleet was END OF LIFE - simple as that. The fleet is being replaced with MERCEDES. Gee how will they go with 'support' then LOL (the fleet contract package with Mercedes is a 30 year one in total, and like the LR one before it - includes guarantees on parts supply and factory support - just like the LR one before it, but which had EXPIRED - hence the need for the ADF to undertake limited procurements of stop-gap vehicles). LR had no interest at all in going "above and beyond" to support the dying requirements of the ADF when the Mercedes deal was all-but-sealed (several years ago), and LR had not produced parts for the dying ADF fleet for probably the better part of 15 years (all parts were being supplied from ever-dwindling reserves). You can read all about the purchasing/tender arrangement on the Austender website if you want the facts - not the fallacy that you are pushing.

Size 11 feet? Yours must be a different size 11 than mine because funnily enough - no space issues for me LOL It has nothing to do with liking one vehicle versus anther - it has to do with NOT wearing blinkers (as you are saying others are doing), and dealing in FACTS, not fantasy or propagating myths that have no basis in fact - just internet forum rumours from "experts".

I think you might be just dreaming a little bit mate - like seemingly the majority of LC200 owners who perk up on Y62 threads like this - any attempt to try and make the LC200 sound better than a Y62 Maybe people like me just get sick of rumours and myths from people like yourself being reported as facts.

In the end, this thread was about q's on a Y62.

 

[Hubble80]

I think no matter what the vehicle, if you get a deal you are happy with, in a package that ticks YOUR boxes, got with it.

I have a LC200, it was a lot more expensive than a Y61 at the time and the Prado it replaced. Even though it had less "fruit" than the Prado (both GXL spec).

At our time of purchase fuel prices were extremely high and at the time people were reporting high fuel consumption figures from the Y62. This was a big factor in our decision as was the resale.

You need to make your decision on what works for you and your family NOW. I honestly believe the Y62 to be a great package. Nissan had to produce something good to compete against the 200. If only they had a diesel option (and there are rumours of a Cummins 5.0L V8 ... :hail I really believe Nissan would give have it over Toyota hands down. They have always produced decent drivelines and solid packages, expect maybe the hand grenade ZD30.

But getting back to the decision you have. Make it based on your research and you only have to justify it to one person ... YOURSELF!

 

[achjimmy]

This has gone far enough off the original question that I don't have anything of further value to add.

Jim - if you think the decision for ADF to move on from LR had anything to do with 'support'...youre kidding. Seriously kidding. The LR fleet was END OF LIFE - simple as that. The fleet is being replaced with MERCEDES. Gee how will they go with 'support' then LOL (the fleet contract package with Mercedes is a 30 year one in total, and like the LR one before it - includes guarantees on parts supply and factory support - just like the LR one before it, but which had EXPIRED - hence the need for the ADF to undertake limited procurements of stop-gap vehicles). LR had no interest at all in going "above and beyond" to support the dying requirements of the ADF when the Mercedes deal was all-but-sealed (several years ago), and LR had not produced parts for the dying ADF fleet for probably the better part of 15 years (all parts were being supplied from ever-dwindling reserves). You can read all about the purchasing/tender arrangement on the Austender website if you want the facts - not the fallacy that you are pushing.

Size 11 feet? Yours must be a different size 11 than mine because funnily enough - no space issues for me LOL It has nothing to do with liking one vehicle versus anther - it has to do with NOT wearing blinkers (as you are saying others are doing), and dealing in FACTS, not fantasy or propagating myths that have no basis in fact - just internet forum rumours from "experts".

I think you might be just dreaming a little bit mate - like seemingly the majority of LC200 owners who perk up on Y62 threads like this - any attempt to try and make the LC200 sound better than a Y62 Maybe people like me just get sick of rumours and myths from people like yourself being reported as facts.

In the end, this thread was about q's on a Y62.

Read my post again the army chose the toyotas for the northern force nothing to do with the recent acquisition to replace the ageing LRs with G wagons jeez talk about FACts ffs

FYI the army decided to patrol the top end with soldiers operating remotely from vehicles . and it was decided for support in the remote regions utilizing stations , towns etc etc remotely for support they chose toyotas

Your tool doc I never weighed in to this with any bias other to say why I chose one Over the other and acknowledged that others have differing reasons and may chose the other . I even agreed in my post that fuel consumption diff is a nothing. It's that don't be rude simple but you just chose to cherry pick parts out of my posts that suited your argument and carry on. All I quoted was facts yep there's less footwell space go and measure it . Yep the rear door is smaller and the rear area go and measure. Yes the Nissan is newer and should drive nicer its a 7 year newer car( with 7 yrs less issues surfaced yet maybe)

Blinkers and dreaming ????

 

[achjimmy]

I think no matter what the vehicle, if you get a deal you are happy with, in a package that ticks YOUR boxes, got with it.

I have a LC200, it was a lot more expensive than a Y61 at the time and the Prado it replaced. Even though it had less "fruit" than the Prado (both GXL spec).

At our time of purchase fuel prices were extremely high and at the time people were reporting high fuel consumption figures from the Y62. This was a big factor in our decision as was the resale.

You need to make your decision on what works for you and your family NOW. I honestly believe the Y62 to be a great package. Nissan had to produce something good to compete against the 200. If only they had a diesel option (and there are rumours of a Cummins 5.0L V8 ... :hail I really believe Nissan would give have it over Toyota hands down. They have always produced decent drivelines and solid packages, expect maybe the hand grenade ZD30.

But getting back to the decision you have. Make it based on your research and you only have to justify it to one person ... YOURSELF!

That's exactly right , what I said all along works for you.

 

[chartrock]

OK, I think it is about time to close this thread. It has more than covered the original post and has progressed way beyond what was first asked.