Suspension WDH what are your thoughts?

[Axl]

Having recently brought my first van I am still learning the ropes and I would appreciate your thoughts on my set up. The story so far is I have only towed the Expanda twice once from the Gold Coast to Brisbane then form Brisbane to the Sunshine Coast, on the second journey I had a B double pan teck pass me at a great rate of knots and the van got a bit of a wobble up, it was nothing drastic but enough to make me sit up and take notice as I have never felt this before.

Searching through the posts on here I realise it could be a combination of things such as van tyre pressure or airbag pressure but having a look on Gumtree I see that I can pick up a WDH for around half the price of new so I am thinking that I will grab one if it doesn’t work out I can always sell it.

My tow vehicle set up is a V6 3.8 lt petrol 2010 Pajero with a suspension upgrade, EFS Elite shocks with standard EFS coils 40mm lift as well as high pressure Firestone airbags, the van is a 2010 14.44.3 Expanda. When hooked up it sits almost level the bum sags maybe 10mm or so and that is with 30PSI in the bags. The previous owner told me he has seen a ball weight as heavy as 200kgs plus when fully loaded.

Of course I could put AL-KO ESC on but the money is a bit tight at the moment so I am thinking try the WDH first if I am still uncomfrotable then put sell the WDH and put the ESC on.

Your thoughts on this are greatly appreciated.

 

[LUK77Y]

ESC .. Stick it on a credit card. It's worth every cent.

 

[LUK77Y]

A few good points on ESC:

1. Works without manual intervention
2. Immediately independently applies brakes to each wheel
3. Reduces snaking (not completly)
4. 1200 or so bucks
5. Maybe a discount on insurance (I got an extra 3% off premium)

 

[Soaring]

ESC will not stop your wobble... It only kicks in when you are deep in the poo
I'd check the basics first such as weight distribution, tyre pressure etc.

 

[Axl]

A few good points on ESC:

1. Works without manual intervention
2. Immediately independently applies brakes to each wheel
3. Reduces snaking (not completly)
4. 1200 or so bucks
5. Maybe a discount on insurance (I got an extra 3% off premium)

I got a quote today for ESC and it was $1600 this includes running an Anderson Plug for power. Now I am not worried about spending the money as our safety comes first however if a WDH will help out the for now this is the way I would like to go. We wont be doing any great travels at the moment just places like the Gold and Sunshine coasts and out to the dams from Brisbane.

 

[Axl]

ESC will not stop your wobble... It only kicks in when you are deep in the poo
I'd check the basics first such as weight distribution, tyre pressure etc.

I do need to check the basics as you have said @Soaring and I will but I am wondering if a WDH will help out at all? I know the previous owner used one when towing the van.

 

[Soaring]

@axl if you were local to me, I would give you a lend of my WDH to try.
I've never towed my van without it so couldn't tell you if it makes a difference, but this is one of those topics that is endlessly debated. I'm of the school of thought that a WDH does a better job of levelling your setup than airbags etc, as it actually transfers weight to your front wheels. (Where the braking and steering comes from! )

Also to clarify my point above, I'm not against ESC, it can be very effective in an emergency situation, but is definitely not a fix for an unbalanced setup.

 

[Axl]

@axl if you were local to me, I would give you a lend of my WDH to try.
I've never towed my van without it so couldn't tell you if it makes a difference, but this is one of those topics that is endlessly debated. I'm of the school of thought that a WDH does a better job of levelling your setup than airbags etc, as it actually transfers weight to your front wheels. (Where the braking and steering comes from! )

Also to clarify my point above, I'm not against ESC, it can be very effective in an emergency situation, but is definitely not a fix for an unbalanced setup.

Yep searching through the forum I see that it is a topic that has no real answer as everyone has a different set up.

 

[17triton]

Well said @Soaring I run a wdh and have done a short run without and certainly notice the difference.

 

[dagree]

@axl One thing to keep in mind is that a WDH system is NOT an anti-sway system (Bear in mind that they do create a bit of friction and may assist slightly).

We used a WDH system on our previous van (Towed with a 100 series cruiser and an NM Pajero). The ride, steering and braking do feel better with WDH but still got a wobble when being passed by heavy vehicles.

Current van will not fit a WDH system as it has a Trigg Bros offroad hitch. Ended up beefing up the suspension on the prado, including air bags and adjustable tow hitch, to get the car and van within +- 4mm level from standard.
As @Soaring said the WDH does do a better job of transferring weight.

As for the ESC...... We had it fitted aftermarket for $1,300 (Did the electrics myself). Not sure as to what level of sway, or heart wrenching situation, they will kick in but after seeing this http://www.expandasdownunder.com/threads/things-you-dont-want-to-see.6482/ I feel a lot more at ease having had the ESC fitted.

Not sure of the dollars but have you looked into the HR Sway Control Friction Systems? http://www.haymanreese.com.au/products/sway-controls

 

[Axl]

@axl One thing to keep in mind is that a WDH system is NOT an anti-sway system (Bear in mind that they do create a bit of friction and may assist slightly).

We used a WDH system on our previous van (Towed with a 100 series cruiser and an NM Pajero). The ride, steering and braking do feel better with WDH but still got a wobble when being passed by heavy vehicles.

Current van will not fit a WDH system as it has a Trigg Bros offroad hitch. Ended up beefing up the suspension on the prado, including air bags and adjustable tow hitch, to get the car and van within +- 4mm level from standard.
As @Soaring said the WDH does do a better job of transferring weight.

As for the ESC...... We had it fitted aftermarket for $1,300 (Did the electrics myself). Not sure as to what level of sway, or heart wrenching situation, they will kick in but after seeing this http://www.expandasdownunder.com/threads/things-you-dont-want-to-see.6482/ I feel a lot more at ease having had the ESC fitted.

Not sure of the dollars but have you looked into the HR Sway Control Friction Systems? http://www.haymanreese.com.au/products/sway-controls

Thanks @dagree, I’m thinking that ill grab a WDH and see what difference it makes it can only make the ride better me thinks.

Down the track I will put ESC on the van, I’m also thinking that as I am not used to towing a van I will get used to little shakes and wobbles form heavy vehicles the more I use it.

I have been towing boats up and down the highways for years but they are not affected by the big guys as much as the van is.

 

[dagree]

Yeah it took me a while to get the feel for towing the van after towing boats for a while. Just this weekend I towed the expanda from Busselton to Perth on Saturday and then back down again to pick up the boat yesterday.

To me the ESC is just like 4WD recovery gear and life jackets for the boat...... Something you buy and hope that you never need!!

 

[Axl]

Yeah it took me a while to get the feel for towing the van after towing boats for a while. Just this weekend I towed the expanda from Busselton to Perth on Saturday and then back down again to pick up the boat yesterday.

To me the ESC is just like 4WD recovery gear and life jackets for the boat...... Something you buy and hope that you never need!!

I just found and Eaz-Lift WDH on gumtree that looks near new is reaonably priced and is close to me so I’ll give them a call when I fly home from work tomorrow.

As you metioned above Eaz-Lift also make a friction sway controller that they retail for around $100 so if I fell I need it I’ll put one of them on as well.

 

[dagree]

Sounds like a good find @axl

 

[17triton]

I think you will find the 14 will tow great behind the Paj with the wdh and with a bit of measuring and adjusting the airbags to suit.

 

[Drover]

While we have similar rigs I have found only having the back tank full gives a better tow but the weight distribution is the main thing. Since I have a Trig hitch on mine I can't fit a WDH but manage to keep it sitting good, that may also be why I prefer to just have the rear tank full as well. An ESC system is the next mod when I can find some money.

 

[Axl]

While we have similar rigs I have found only having the back tank full gives a better tow but the weight distribution is the main thing. Since I have a Trig hitch on mine I can't fit a WDH but manage to keep it sitting good, that may also be why I prefer to just have the rear tank full as well. An ESC system is the next mod when I can find some money.

Thanks for the info @Drover I have decided to get a WDH. Gumtree isnt working for me out here at work and I have found a nice set of EAZ-LIFT but I cant get the phone number.

 

[Drover]

Pain isn't it. I've experimented with tyre pressure, water loads etc to find the sweet spot. A handy trick to move weight is use the tap on the draw bar to move water from one tank to the other, makes getting the balance right easier. Having an extra hose about as long as the van is handy to carry, wash sand off feet, use at dump points etc.
I have 225 70x15 tyres and I think I run 55psi most times at least thats where I start at.

 

[Axl]

Pain isn't it. I've experimented with tyre pressure, water loads etc to find the sweet spot. A handy trick to move weight is use the tap on the draw bar to move water from one tank to the other, makes getting the balance right easier. Having an extra hose about as long as the van is handy to carry, wash sand off feet, use at dump points etc.
I have 225 70x15 tyres and I think I run 55psi most times at least thats where I start at.

The one thing I didnt do is check what pressure was in the tyres prior to leaving on my last trip stupid I know:brick:, but I will now play around with the pressures in the van tyres and the air bags and hopefully find a good combination. Iwas thinking of starting at 40psi in the van tyres now I know what you are running yours at I wont be worried to go a bit higher if required.

 

[achjimmy]

Axl plenty of solid advise above. But I can't emphasis enough about getting the load right. I have ended up on our side because of a sway up and that was with WDH fitted. Get the load right.

Also I don't know if it's just me but even after towing for years, I still get nervous and tend to sense every little thing for the first 100-200kms after setting off on a trip if I haven't towed for a while.

And ofcourse what we never consider is road surface. When bringing the starcraft home on the western freeway I was all nerves at 100kph. What I have noticed lately is as the cruiser is getting due for a wheel alignment and balance that solo it reacts differently on the same section of road to anywhere else. It causes a vibration and a slight pull to the right far worse than on any other road I frequent. The surface is in perfect condition too!