Towing and Crashing - an opinion.

[davemc]

Add another thing fatigue. Sarah tows when we went on our big trip doing long days she be lucky to see another female driving.
If the old timer is sick normally the wife cannot tow at all. So they stay or he has to drive.

We also swap every 300k or so when we fill up have a range of 450k if we need.
Not sure how you police that? My wives friend they do Melb to GC non stop in a car for holidays, hubby drives 85% of the time. They stop every 600k for fuel. Said 4 stops only unless kids need to pee.

And we all sat there doing close to speed limit then get overtaken by someone in a car or a caravan and you think idiot.
Those who have to overtake just to cut you off then slow down
We will sit behind a slow truck or van for a while to we find somewhere safe.
We also let trucks who going faster then us over take I look in my rear mirrors/camera, although we normally sit close to speed limit so do not get many.

Our setup cruises fine on speed limit I could do 110 in states you can although we happy to sit around 100.
How many wobbly caravans around 80-85 do you see.

Yes be good for people to have to weigh vans. Someone has to pay for people to weigh vans.
as @bigcol said not sure there are more van accidents for the increasing numbers of vans on the road.

 

[bigcol]

I know what your saying @warren cook
I think that I read somewhere that
out of every 10 cars 2.8 will have an accident of some sort
out of every 10 trucks (5t-50t) 1.6 will have an accident
out of every 10 Vans (camper/poptop/full sized Van) 0.2 will have an accident

I think banning Cars without Vans is the way to go

 

[bigcol]

yes Fatigue is a major part of the problem @davemc

I have been teaching SWMBO to tow the Van,
first time - never went over 60 in an 80 zone - was only going close
2nd time - long drive, lots of traffic, she sat about 80-95 most of the time, and anytime she could, she would move over for others behind (still got the "turkeys" who would over take on corners, on the rise of a hill, double white lines etc)
3rd time - again long drive, sat on her 90-95, moved over for trucks, got don't be rude off with another caravan slowing to 70, then as you go to overtake they then speed up to 100 - several times (even a Road Train was going to run him off the road - but we were there)

now, the point is
she is driving "on the seat of her pants"
conscious of everything around her
continually watching mirrors etc
overly cautious with her driving

should we ALL not be already doing this.........???

I know when I drive, I do the same (to a small degree) as an instinctive reflex, without conscious thought about what I am doing
am I too "blasé" with my driving because I have done it for so long, with XYZ amount of experience

I remember reading a report by the RACWA way back in the mid 70's that said
"Every Driver on the roads is an accident waiting to happen"

as a newly licenced 17yo, I thought, "yeah, whatever Grandad"
now - I think they may just have a point you know.........................

 

[Drover]

I have found that the newer driver who is fully alert, always looking and feeling every movement is still in the absorbtion stage, if something happens they are so tense the reaction is overreaction, with proper guiding, the over alert mode is changed to the unconsciously alert mode, where the eye's are scanning gauges, mirrors, bum is feeling all the bumps and dips but the body isn't tensed up, the driver can chat away and be relaxed but fully aware of whats happening on the road and reacts without conscious thought, in fact does things then see's what caused the action, this is how you don't kill yourself, if you need time to think you die sometimes..........Then it the time to do the skid in the dirt, slide in the grass in the paddock, drive down Milton Rd, Brisbane in peak hour on a wet day to gain handling experience etc..................Always tried to teach drivers to say out loud what was in front, in the rear view, footpath then just let your mind do the talking, in no time at all the eye's and mind are watching it all on auto, the kid runs out, the brakes go on before you even know it..........I know of 2 people that are alive today because of it, possibly many more.

Don't get me started on idiots who drive Syd to Bne etc in one go after 6 mths of just driving to work, some have tried to kill me while I was at work.

 

[mikerezny]

I have found that the newer driver who is fully alert, always looking and feeling every movement is still in the absorbtion stage, if something happens they are so tense the reaction is overreaction, with proper guiding, the over alert mode is changed to the unconsciously alert mode, where the eye's are scanning gauges, mirrors, bum is feeling all the bumps and dips but the body isn't tensed up, the driver can chat away and be relaxed but fully aware of whats happening on the road and reacts without conscious thought, in fact does things then see's what caused the action, this is how you don't kill yourself, if you need time to think you die sometimes..........Then it the time to do the skid in the dirt, slide in the grass in the paddock, drive down Milton Rd, Brisbane in peak hour on a wet day to gain handling experience etc..................Always tried to teach drivers to say out loud what was in front, in the rear view, footpath then just let your mind do the talking, in no time at all the eye's and mind are watching it all on auto, the kid runs out, the brakes go on before you even know it..........I know of 2 people that are alive today because of it, possibly many more.

Don't get me started on idiots who drive Syd to Bne etc in one go after 6 mths of just driving to work, some have tried to kill me while I was at work.

Hi @Drover,
a somewhat related incident on the way to Queensland a couple of weeks ago.

I was driving around mid-afternoon and my partner said that she might have seen a kangaroo back there. This started a discussion about how a passenger can best help a driver avoid accidents.
We agreed that when possible both driver and passenger should be scanning the road for kangaroos and if she event suspected there was a kangaroo, she was to shout "Roo" and let me do the rest.

As it happened, not 20 minutes later, I heard the loud shout "Roo". I was travelling about 90-95kmh. Straight away, both hands firmly on the wheel, foot straight to the brake and a firm slowdown. Already knew there was no one behind, but time to do a quick check. Slowed down now in full, scanning for where the roo was. Found it in the grass to my right, Barbara was now pointing. Down to about 60kmh,
roo clearly in view 20-30 m ahead but standing still. I was just about to lift foot from the brake as I suspected it would stay there and we would pass. Down to about 50km. Then like a shot it jumped out in front. Foot back full on the brake.

It jumped right across the front of the car and I reckon I just missed its tail with the passenger side of the car.

The Adrenalin hit was huge and it took 20-30 minutes to recover. First time a roo ever jumped in front of me.

So, post analysis: Had the roo jumped and we were at 90-95 in a Falcon, probably end of holiday, some chance of injury.
So, we like our "Roo" procedure. I shouldn't have up on the brake, thinking it will not jump. This was a silly thing to do. Next time, full on until we have stopped or we have gone past.

After talking to others, they can apparently jump when you least expect. Do they have a death wish or is there a kangaroo form of 'playing chicken'
Considering the number of dead roos on the road if it a death wish it is certainly effective for them. If they are playing chicken they aren't very good at it!

So now we both scan ahead.

cheers
Mike

 

[Drover]

Could start a whole new thread about Roo's I reckon.........couple of pointers for you @mikerezny
.....Always pass a Roo around the front of him if possible as they will (98% of time) turn and run. If not able to pass, take him out as he will surely clock you.
....When you see one jump across in front of you don't watch him look where he came from and slow down as 2 others will surely come behind at full tilt.
....When there are a few alongside the road, if possible run along the centre line, gives dodge room.

.....If you slow down too much it will make them move, usually into you ..you may as well park up as you will never get anywhere..

......Best rule is hit the road 2 hr after sunrise and park up 2 hrs before the sun, if you must drive at dawn and dusk or during the dark tag behind a truck, he'l clear the way. oh don't straddle dead un's.

There you go just a couple of hints gleaned from regular Roo culling runs to Isa and back over the years.

 

[mikerezny]

Could start a whole new thread about Roo's I reckon.........couple of pointers for you @mikerezny
.....Always pass a Roo around the front of him if possible as they will (98% of time) turn and run. If not able to pass, take him out as he will surely clock you.
....When you see one jump across in front of you don't watch him look where he came from and slow down as 2 others will surely come behind at full tilt.
....When there are a few alongside the road, if possible run along the centre line, gives dodge room.

.....If you slow down too much it will make them move, usually into you ..you may as well park up as you will never get anywhere..

......Best rule is hit the road 2 hr after sunrise and park up 2 hrs before the sun, if you must drive at dawn and dusk or during the dark tag behind a truck, he'l clear the way. oh don't straddle dead un's.

There you go just a couple of hints gleaned from regular Roo culling runs to Isa and back over the years.

Hi @Drover,
this is really useful information. Thanks for taking the time to post the reply. It gives me more things to consider.

We usually do drive to avoid the worst times. It wasn't possible this time due to Winter and the need to do about 500km per day to get home.

It is amazing how time slows down when the Adrenalin hits. I can still remember it all like a movie in slow motion.

Without a van, I am used to following a truck and let it do the roo sweeping. Don't feel confident enough to drive at the speeds of trucks with the van on. With the van on I also feel much more comfortable with nothing in front of or behind me. Not at all confident I can pull the correct moves in an emergency with the van connected. At the moment I could go any of three ways: Instantly react the same as I would do without the van (bad move), do nothing since I won't have enough experience to react automatically, or if there is time to think, do something vaguely sensible. So, at the moment, I keep as much distance between me and anything else.

cheers
Mike
These posts

 

[davemc]

I cannot sleep in the car so when Sarah drives I look ahead, check petrol stations, watch for cars, Emu's Roos etc.
When I drive she sleeps
I think it does help having another set of eyes somewhat on the road

Went up to Nowra and back from Melb a few months back with a mate to get a second hand engine.
I went with him as the idiot was going to do it by himself.
We did 3-4 hour shifts driving.. again he slept while I was driving.
Left at 2am got home midnight. He drove the last 6 hours with a stop in the middle as he was refreshed from all the sleeps.
I was buggered about 6 hours from home if I was by myself I could not of driven anymore
We stopped about 4 hours from home and after that I was fine, although so was he after all his sleeps so he continued home

 

[mikerezny]

I cannot sleep in the car so when Sarah drives I look ahead, check petrol stations, watch for cars, Emu's Roos etc.
When I drive she sleeps
I think it does help having another set of eyes somewhat on the road

Went up to Nowra and back from Melb a few months back with a mate to get a second hand engine.
I went with him as the idiot was going to do it by himself.
We did 3-4 hour shifts driving.. again he slept while I was driving.
Left at 2am got home midnight. He drove the last 6 hours with a stop in the middle as he was refreshed from all the sleeps.
I was buggered about 6 hours from home if I was by myself I could not of driven anymore
We stopped about 4 hours from home and after that I was fine, although so was he after all his sleeps so he continued home

Hi @davemc,
I am like you, I cannot sleep when someone else is driving. Well, with one exception, an ex brother in law was a superb driver with a Renault 12. When he was driving that car I would sleep like a baby.

cheers
Mike

 

[davemc]

not I worry about drivers, I just need a bed. I cannot sleep in a chair, or couch etc
Did not help when I did nightshift and the rest of the team slept

 

[bigcol]

yes @mikerezny Roos are dumb
always a good idea if the passenger is awake, to be scanning the road (and getting drinks ready, keeping the stereo on music controlling the monsters in the back seat etc)
2 pair of eyes is way betterer than 1

After talking to others, they can apparently jump when you least expect. Do they have a death wish or is there a kangaroo form of 'playing chicken'
Considering the number of dead roos on the road if it a death wish it is certainly effective for them. If they are playing chicken they aren't very good at it!

reminds me on when I used to travel between Carnarvon and Karratha years ago
the big buggers would definitely be playing chicken

you could see them on the hills to the right as you were driving along, then
bang
one would set off across the road to the other hill on the other side
count to 10
and the next one would head off

oh
in some areas, the time of the day is no guaranty they wont be out playing near the roads

I hit a Big Red just outside of Karratha doing about 110k/p/h at lunch time
my mate got another in the same spot an hour later (but wrote off his Torana)

 

[Drover]

Thinking of some handy hints:

................Look at your bullbar and pick the best spot to hit with, usually a vertical post, then when all is safe as you drive down the road line the post up with a cats eye on the road and imagaine crossing the eye with the bar at that point, do it a few times then when you have to take one out, bingo a flick of the wheel and whacko, should where you want it.

If going at full noise Never Ever Dodge, Do Not Dodge Ever, stand on the picks certainly but don't throw the vehicle around even if it's a beast, if it is,do my proven move, stand on picks, hang onto wheel for grim death, duck and close eyes, close poopy valve very tightly for the world is about to explode. You close eyes for when the w/screen blows out around you.
Gentle changes of direction only, brake, unbrake turn wheel, brake again..............when I hit the road I always wore good undies.....

You try not to dodge as the table drain will flip your vehicle before you even know it unless you hit it straight and launch into the paddock....

...........Another tip, don't try to straddle a dead Wombat in a Mini, it does not work.


...........Not forgetting they can come at you from the side, straight into the side of your vehicle, you know nothing until wham, bang 3 slam into the side of you, once again good undies needed...

Wow bringing back some memories now.

 

[bigcol]

....When you see one jump across in front of you don't watch him look where he came from and slow down as 2 others will surely come behind at full tilt.

thats happened to me, coming home from Gerro one night - about 11pm
"whats that in the corner of my eye"
phew, just missed him
BANG
thump
flappity flap

what the...........

I missed Daddy (or mummy) but the smaller one went straight in the front side of my Camper, and took the drivers side wheel out

shittingmongalbastardspasticarseholewanker

try changing a tyre
at night
with flat torch
and 3 screaming kids, cause I killed "Splodge" (from Blinky Bill)

 

[bigcol]

I had a mate, while up in Karratha in the late 80's, he spent countless hours and an immense sum of money to rebuild an A9X
this thing was the ducks nuts
took off between Karratha and Wickham one afternoon
(my XC Fairmont Ghia had a 490 that was "slightly" worked), at 100k/p/h he took off like I was standing still.............
we get to Wickham, no sign of him, drive around the town (wasn't very big in them days 6 streets & Pub & shops)
hhhmmmmmmm
back track towards Roebourne, there he is sitting on the side of the road
WTF
he hit a roo at an enormous speed (well and truly over the old ton)- went sailing into the scrub, we went passed and didnt even see him, lucky he wasn't injured or we would never have found him

only salvaged the rear tail lights - only things not damaged

 

[bigcol]

...........Another tip, don't try to straddle a dead Wombat in a Mini, it does not work.

I want to know just HOW you know this........................

 

[Drover]

Oh boy! I love this.............................................Driving the McCaffertys Coach out west, half full , every time a Roo comes in view this lady screams her head off, after a few screeches I moved her up the back and threatened to put her off with the Roo's, as every time I went to dodge one she'd let out this blood curdling scream................................and bang I'd hit the bugga, move or else lady.

....................Take out first Roo for night near Roma, someone's upset I didn't stop, didn't believe 20 ton, 100kph, BIG bullbar equates to not much hope................by Morven and tally of hits 20, missed 200 no more panic.....sometimes no lights left by Tambo, it's cool sun is up.

...............Stop in Blackall, dawn, local asks if they can have mascot, of course I say, so he cuts the Roo hanging off bottom of bull bar and chucks in Ute for his dogs, passengers gag, I smile, saves me doing it out of town.....always carried a nice skinning knife in tool box.

....................Bang on side, glass sprays all over me, turn on light and find a Roo has come in thru the little window at bottom of coach door, not happy needed to do surgery to get it out, again passengers throwing up............

.......Triple road train going past, dusk, Roos flys out of scrub, passegers scream, gag as it goes into the tri on the back trailer and sprays goop all over side of coach, Coach Captain gets into trouble for laughing...........

Enough nearly tea time.

 

[Drover]

Oh @bigcol , Mini was legendary Cooper S in BRG (real one 1965, not toy one ) I'm passenger as mate flys along the road near Moss Vale, lump in road, damn too late, spin out into paddock..............luckily didn't rip sump out and got to Robertson Pub, spent next weekend in shed....Like hitting a brick on a skate board.

 

[Crusty181]

Oh @bigcol , Mini was legendary Cooper S in BRG (real one 1965, not toy one ) I'm passenger as mate flys along the road near Moss Vale, lump in road, damn too late, spin out into paddock..............luckily didn't rip sump out and got to Robertson Pub, spent next weekend in shed....Like hitting a brick on a skate board.

A freind of mine has for 30 years plus owned a Mini Radford DeVille Cooper S .... in BRG

 

[Sammy D]

In regards to Roos I think investing in even a basic steel bar is a wise decision even more so if you plan on towing a van around the countryside. Drovers comments on dodging are spot on and you are a lot less likely to be tempted with a bit of protection up front and with a van on it is even more critical not to start dodging like a lunatic!

The way I look at it is it is cheap insurance, not so much against dints and damage but more so insurance against being stranded. Even a little roo is enough to take out your radiator if you don't have a bar.

 

[MDS69]

I've commented on this before. I had a 2000 rodeo that had a 1800kg capacity. My bil had a 2014 dmax that had a 3000kg capacity . The chassis where not considerably bigger ! Next year all the dmax competitors had 3500 kg capacity so dmax was magically re engineered with no difference and had 3500 kg for the next year!!

I don't get how the same chassis, same brakes and "special suspension" with a little blue plate called a GVM upgrade can allow you to tow more. Someone who has more knowledge on this please explain as I am genuinely interested in the science behind it.