Tow vehicle comparisons according to ARB (Qld)

[Drover]

Nothing wrong with payload.. Over the years never went back to dealers anyway so never looked at that aspect......never buy parts from them either.......
Besides you know you want one, nice big Cat diesel rumbling away under the bonnet hood, have 2 parking spots at Coles, best excuse to leave the city.

My favourite car parts shop, got my Jeep parts quicker, cheaper than from dealers here in Oz and a few other vehicles as well........... Colorado hasn't broke so haven't tested it yet...https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/?

 

[mfexpanda]

Nothing like stats ................................. proves what I've said all along that a 3.5t tow cap in reality is only about 2.8t max in a dual cab, I would like to see the vehicles in a standard config ie; bull bar 2 normal sized pax as @Crusty181 pointed out, vehicle town loading so tool box and full fuel, then work the weights out.

Good find @Boots in Action and one which many will fail to understand but some will take it as what their vehicle is capable of but in the end it is a desk bound calculation based on supposed mythical figures .......................... and I think the Colorado figures are way out, 57 kgs is way too much, be more likely in the minus.

What ?

 

[Drover]

Saw similar at Gunnedah, its a very light van I was told.......

 

[mfexpanda]

Saw similar at Gunnedah, its a very light van I was told.......

I think it would need to be empty

 

[Crusty181]

What ?


View attachment 63550

Youve down graded to a smaller van ???

 

[Drover]

I think it would need to be empty

They were very serious, I kept a straight face .

 

[Bluey]

It's ok Boots, I am neither excited nor worried. The base GX is a 5 seater which I have and it has a kerb weight of 2240kg and a GVM of 2990kg. For a better model with 7 seats add around 120 kg to kerb weight. My model is pegged at 2500kg tow limit however the current facelift version has a 3000kg tow limit.
I had a weigh bridge certificate done a few months back with van attached and fully loaded as we prepared to go on a trip. I can't remember all the figures but the Prado fully loaded for a trip only me as driver, fuelled up with 150litres of diesel, fridge, bar work tools etc weighed around 2660kg ??. I had a ball weigh around 145kg, van weigh in around 1565kg including 280 amps of AGM batteries and solar panels.
I still have 95kg spare in van which will be helpful as I am about to fit a 2nd water tank and so should be within a kg or two( especially when I won't have the 20 kg water can on draw bar).
I have had an GVM upgrade assessment done and can get an increase on the van to around 1780kg without any mods as the specs check out. Put 12" inch brakes on and I can go even more. I will be replacing the springs regardless as they are tired so will go to a heavier rating Alko Spring.

I'm happy with that as I love our combination of vehicle plus 12.ft 6" expanda outback with a few mods.

My 2014 GX 200 has a GVM of 3350

 

[Disco Duck]

What ?


View attachment 63550

How could anyone survive for any length of time in a van that small ??

 

[Crusty181]

Nothing wrong with payload.. Over the years never went back to dealers anyway so never looked at that aspect......never buy parts from them either.......
Besides you know you want one, nice big Cat diesel rumbling away under the bonnet hood, have 2 parking spots at Coles, best excuse to leave the city.

My favourite car parts shop, got my Jeep parts quicker, cheaper than from dealers here in Oz and a few other vehicles as well........... Colorado hasn't broke so haven't tested it yet...https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/?

Hey @Drover announcement hot off press so the get your cheque book out. You'll need a new pen because there are a $hit ton of zeros you'll be writing.

The long awaited Ram diesel incarnation is finally bound for Oz. One (of many) down sides is apparently it takes 2 years to get here from the USA, but the positive spin is they left 18mths ago ... way back in 2018. When these 2018 models arrive in 2020 in good olde Oz they be complianced as 2018 ... ha, tricked you, not likely. As they'll be travelling through the international date line on the Spanish Galleon, the Pinto, they'll become 2020 models of course. They've be frozen like Walt Disney.

I'll admit I was a little nervous opening the article, but phewwww thanks Ram, dodged a bullet there (see what I did there "Dodged", a Ram bullet) By the end of the article any tiny weenie doubt I may have had in the 4 months my mind has been wandering, any doubts I had committing to the mighty unbeatable Landcruiser 70 have completely evaporated.

You'll of course have to wait a bit longer to get your new (old 2018) Ram even after the 2 years on the tall ship ... because they need to extensively pull apart and completely rebuild the factory delivered, factory backed Ram ... ha. And your in luck it's only $110,000, and it's only 2 years old when it arrives .... modern tech has been used to ramp up the payload to a whopping 735kg, almost matching a Hyundai Elantra. Imagine all the polystyrene you'll be able to cart around with that. Because you wanted a diesel and because you love diesel so much and have waited so patiently you've been rewarded. Ram have arranged for it's diesel model to inhale much more diesel, for way less output than the petrol model. You love diesel?? ... Ram's gotcha covered, you'll be seeing lots of it. Ive got 2 whopping diesel tanks on the mighty 70, I dont think I could use it all ... yell out if when you run out

Seems to tick all the boxes ... what colour you looking at ???

 

[Drover]

Yep I read it .......if I bought a RAM 1500 it would be the 5.7lt, as I have already mentioned before, throw the tub away fit a tray also I was originally talking about the 2500 with the CAT under the bonnet...... No comparison with a mine truck.....

Once you put all your mods onto this Mine Truck you won't have much left, you do know it could be a tad bumpier and noisier than the poor mans Footscray Tractor you once had........
I'm flat out filling the tank on the 'Olden anyway, like buying a Rangie the dodge is but a dream......

Did I mention I can do Fraser Island and back in a day and still have fuel left.

But your right, crap payloads, expect a bit more.....

 

[jazzeddie1234]

I just finish watching this youtube video about people wanting to tow their taj behind whatever when the biggest 5th wheeler I have ever seen creeps by. It's so big the guy has 3 goes to get out of a fairly standard carpark. Anyway the video is fun to watch unless you own a sensitive 200..

 

[Bluey]

I agree with him im lucky my van is just under 2.5 t the GX 200 has 100kg more gvm than a Glx thats why and having barn doors why i brought it ..... its also heavier than my van all be it 200kgs or so thats why i never brought a lightweight ute weighing less than my van .....
My cars not senstive it dose its job well but im sure many are lets do a poll how many tow cars weigh more than there van ?????.? Id say not many also why i changed from prado to the 200 safe and legal
Didnt our fourfathers teach us dont tow anything unless your car is heavier than what your towing ?????
I was not happy towing with prado for all the reasons above did it for 4 years towed it well but i spose i was lucky nothing happened if it did i would have lost everything i own if it was bad enough .....
Christmas is the only time im fully loaded if i had a ute id be towing it with near nothing in the back most of the time long weekends away... another reason why i dont have one .....
I sleep much better now no longer worrieing about towing weight before trips
Hes also right car makers van companys everyone needs a bloody good shake up .... at the moment its a dogs breakfast
Looking at the set ups i see when im traveling ok thats enough

 

[Crusty181]

I agree with him im lucky my van is just under 2.5 t the GX 200 has 100kg more gvm than a Glx thats why and having barn doors why i brought it ..... its also heavier than my van all be it 200kgs or so thats why i never brought a lightweight ute weighing less than my van .....
My cars not senstive it dose its job well but im sure many are lets do a poll how many tow cars weigh more than there van ?????.? Id say not many also why i changed from prado to the 200 safe and legal
Didnt our fourfathers teach us dont tow anything unless your car is heavier than what your towing ?????
I was not happy towing with prado for all the reasons above did it for 4 years towed it well but i spose i was lucky nothing happened if it did i would have lost everything i own if it was bad enough .....
Christmas is the only time im fully loaded if i had a ute id be towing it with near nothing in the back most of the time long weekends away... another reason why i dont have one .....
I sleep much better now no longer worrieing about towing weight before trips
Hes also right car makers van companys everyone needs a bloody good shake up .... at the moment its a dogs breakfast
Looking at the set ups i see when im traveling ok thats enough

Im much like you @Bluey, Ive been skidding along the compliance line for a long long time. We agonised for more than a year to narrow down the options of a vehicle that would tick all the boxes. Although our 8 year plan had another 3 years to play out, the right opportunity presented now so we jumped in 3 years early. Ive read enough to "know" the 70 series is a peerless hauler, but to be honest Im a little nervous. The Navara was a truly faultless, powerful, confident and very stable tow vehicle loaded to its capacity and with 3t on the back. The Navara was never applauded for much (read anything) including towing, so I can only hope the so called tow king LC70 is as good as the Navara .... Ill settle for just as good.

I quite enjoy like John Cadogan mostly for his humorous presentation and spiteful commentary, but he flip flopped a little on this one.

With this video, when it suited his argument we should be all listen intently to the brilliant vehicle manufacturing engineers when they develop and got perfect the factory GVM ie don't dance with the devil with the black magic of GVM upgrades. Shortly after that gem, when Johnny guessed we all have the memories of gold fish, he suggests we should all forget the last statement and completely ignore those now brain dead idiot manufacturer engineers when they also developed the 3.5t tow capacity on the very same car that they got the GVM so awesomely right.

Now vehicle manufacturing enginners, lets not forget the ongoing engineer created issues with certain vehicle models which they cant fix and the mother ship refuses to even acknowledge exists. What about vehicle manufacturers de-tuning first series vehicle models to build in future cost free model updates in new releases of the same higher priced car. The very best example of auto industry engineers integrity is your pure and honest indian Volkswagon engineers, who jammed 4 fingers and a thumb up the collective a$re of the entire world. Hmmmmm .... yep auto company engineers John, they have my complete trust.

SSM or 3rd party GVM upgrade certifications are done by similarly qualified engineers to car maker engineers .... John Cadogan is right in that one of them has got it wrong and cant be trusted.

 

[rags]

My 2014 GX 200 has a GVM of 3350

Sorry Bluey, I meant a GX Prado , but I do secretly want a GX 200s, for many of the reasons you post below

I agree with him im lucky my van is just under 2.5 t the GX 200 has 100kg more gvm than a Glx thats why and having barn doors why i brought it ..... its also heavier than my van all be it 200kgs or so thats why i never brought a lightweight ute weighing less than my van .....
My cars not senstive it dose its job well but im sure many are lets do a poll how many tow cars weigh more than there van ?????.? Id say not many also why i changed from prado to the 200 safe and legal
Didnt our fourfathers teach us dont tow anything unless your car is heavier than what your towing ?????
I was not happy towing with prado for all the reasons above did it for 4 years towed it well but i spose i was lucky nothing happened if it did i would have lost everything i own if it was bad enough .....
Christmas is the only time im fully loaded if i had a ute id be towing it with near nothing in the back most of the time long weekends away... another reason why i dont have one .....
I sleep much better now no longer worrieing about towing weight before trips
Hes also right car makers van companys everyone needs a bloody good shake up .... at the moment its a dogs breakfast
Looking at the set ups i see when im traveling ok thats enough

 

[Drover]

Well I haven't watched the video ................................... but do people really believe what the manufacturers say, I'm astounded ................. not really so many believe politicians to be savoiurs ................

Looking forward to your new truck getting here @Crusty181 , it will truly be one of the few proper FWDs on here......................

 

[Boots in Action]

I just finish watching this youtube video about people wanting to tow their taj behind whatever when the biggest 5th wheeler I have ever seen creeps by. It's so big the guy has 3 goes to get out of a fairly standard carpark. Anyway the video is fun to watch unless you own a sensitive 200..

Great video @jazzeddie1234 !! Something ALL vanners should see and understand, especially those with "Taj Mahals". I saw plenty of those whilst on a coach tour in West Australia from Perth to Darwin earlier this month. A close call with coach occurred when a a very large van came down a dirt road to join the black top highway. Was unable to stop before entering the intersection causing the coach driver to swerve violently to avoid collision. The coach weighed in at 18.0t, so the vehicle and van would have been "swatted aside" like a fly!!

 

[crystofferj]

Recently I attended the monster Caravan/camping Show in Brisbane and just happened to enter into the ARB display where I found the attached table of current vehicles' load and towing capacities compared. I was rather shocked to read some of the stats and even called over the expert there to explain a few things to me.

The ranking for Vehicle Only is pretty straight forward to follow - Gross combined mass (total of everything together) minus gross vehicle mass (weight of your tug loaded) minus the kerb weight of your tug (empty but with all standard fittings included) leaves you with the payload that you can legally place in tug. The 79 Series wins this with an available payload of 1125 kgs just ahead of the BT-50 with 1096 kgs.

The ranking for vehicles At Max Tow Capacity is also easy to follow : Gross combined mass as per top comparison minus Tow capacity if reached ( the max weight that your tug is rated to tow) minus Gross vehicle mass remaining (reduced from comparison in top column) , minus the Kerb Mass (the same as top column same figures) leaves you with the reduced payload you can place in your tug. Once again, the 79 Series comes out on top with 1125 kgs still available whilst the Defender is a close second with 1078 kgs avaliable. The BT-50 is way behind now at only 396 kgs and the Colorado a long way last with only 57 kgs available!

The last comparison had me beat for a while until I was advised that the weight of passenger/s is calculated at 47 kgs each , but each passenger has an luggage allowance of 15 kgs (total of 62 kgs per passenger!!). I guess this makes allowances for children (or small adults?) So, to NOT use up your payload, get rid of the kids and their luggage!

In reading the comparisons in the last columns, they work on the max passengers plus the STANDARD fuel tank capacity/weight plus average ball weight of your loaded van (300 kgs seems heavy, but they do say it does not alter the rankings). The Defender tops the class with 412 kgs still available and the 79 Series a close second with still room for 403 kgs. 13 out of the 17 would be OVERLOADED by anything from 11 kgs (200 GXL) to 602 kgs (Colorado) and that is with only 5 passengers included.
So every time you add that extra bit of weight - bull bar, long ranView attachment 63511ge fuel tank, roof racks, light bars and winches, it will affect something. If you have only two persons and are not carrying passengers, you gain 186 kgs of extra capacity to cover some of your extras fitted. But when you add your OWN weight plus that of an adult passenger, most of us are going to eat up more load capacity by being over the 62 kgs EACH allowed for in the calculations.

This should make interesting reading for a lot of forum members with heavily loaded vans and tugs. But as the comparison sheet states:

DON'T KILL THE MESSENGER!!!..........Please

surely the colorado kerb wt is incorrect it should be for an ltz around 2121 not 2443 how could arb get it so wrong?

 

[Boots in Action]

surely the colorado kerb wt is incorrect it should be for an ltz around 2121 not 2443 how could arb get it so wrong?

Hello @crystofferj , I made a comment to the ARB staff member at the Show that I had a RG Colorado LXR model that was not included in the listing as not the latest model. The reply was that my vehicle was much lighter than the current model which is included at a GVM of 3150kg. I did not know what the GVM of my vehicle was until I got home and looked at Compliance plate. It is listed as 2900kg, a difference of 250kg. I have not checked out the kerb weight of my vehicle, but going on ARB's figures, I think they would be pretty correct with the different engine and greater rated towing capacity - 3500kg against my 3000kgs max. But you bring up a good point as there is an error in the last comparison line if you look. There are two vehicles rated at # 5. Maybe I will contact the guy again as I have his email address.