Need tow vehicle advice for van! ATM Questions

[thetwosweets]

Howdy, first post here! I have just bought a 2008 18ft Jayco Expanda outback. Pretty excited to take my young family away. We need to buy a 4x4 to tow it with. Thought it would be best to buy van first, then a 4x4 to suit.
Needs for 4x4 are lots of general suburban family driving, decent fuel economy, easy to drive, occasional beach driving, wagon not ute, we are thinking of going in the van for 6-8 months, nothing too extreme but around Aus. Occasional off road but limited.
The caravan weights are ATM 2542, TARE 2067 and ball weight 220kg.
Our budget is $17-$25k for an Auto, diesel wagon.
Had hearts set on Prado (approx 2010 model) as have had and earlier one years ago without issues but as the van ATM is 40kg higher than prados 2500kg limlit, does that mean you cannot tow? I would think that as long as you van total weight is under the max tow weight of car you would be fine? Other options are pajero (approx 2012), issue is once you go above 2500kg the ball weight drops to 180kg...
The wife is less keen to drive landcruisers and patrols etc.
Land rover discovery 4 can work but are they reliable?? Yes, wife loves them, of course...Izusu MUX look like they can tow, seem to be holding value high considering how cheap they are new.
My main question is relating to towing weights when a fraction above limit but not loaded to the ATM limit?
Second question is advice to what 4X4 would work best for our needs and limited budget?
Thanks in advance, Wayne

 

[Drover]

Welcome to the site, you will find heaps of information on here especially on your question...................

First off have a read of this it may explain the mystery of weights http://www.withoutahitch.com.au/caravan/understanding-caravan-towing-capacity/

A vehicle that has a towing capacity about 500kg higher than your vans ATM should mean you won't be overloading or working the guts out of it.........If the vehicle states it can tow for example 3.5t this figure is usually based on an empty car, once you strat to put bums on seats, bags, fuel the amount you can tow reduces...
thusly a Prado with a tow cap of 2500kg in reality once its loaded is more like 2000kgs, same for most others....

The info on the compliance plate ignore the tare its a fairy tale, the ATM and GVM are the figures that must be taken notice of, the ball weight is a guess but at 220kg I wouldn't want to be higher in real life anyway, my 23ft rig is that much..... type pressure start there and work out an ideal pressure.

Disco is good same as Mux just depends on how they were looked after, always serviced at a dealer is not really a great thing either....

Have a look on here you will find heaps and heaps of threads with information but just ask away, no stupid questions here and we are a friendly mob.

 

[thetwosweets]

Welcome to the site, you will find heaps of information on here especially on your question...................

First off have a read of this it may explain the mystery of weights http://www.withoutahitch.com.au/caravan/understanding-caravan-towing-capacity/

A vehicle that has a towing capacity about 500kg higher than your vans ATM should mean you won't be overloading or working the guts out of it.........If the vehicle states it can tow for example 3.5t this figure is usually based on an empty car, once you strat to put bums on seats, bags, fuel the amount you can tow reduces...
thusly a Prado with a tow cap of 2500kg in reality once its loaded is more like 2000kgs, same for most others....

The info on the compliance plate ignore the tare its a fairy tale, the ATM and GVM are the figures that must be taken notice of, the ball weight is a guess but at 220kg I wouldn't want to be higher in real life anyway, my 23ft rig is that much..... type pressure start there and work out an ideal pressure.

Disco is good same as Mux just depends on how they were looked after, always serviced at a dealer is not really a great thing either....

Have a look on here you will find heaps and heaps of threads with information but just ask away, no stupid questions here and we are a friendly mob.

Thanks!

 

[Crusty181]

Welcome and congrats @thetwosweets, exciting times for you guys. Your going to love it.

As @Drover mentioned weights are the big one, and will be your single biggest issue. With the plated weights that 2067kg tare is off the production line, now you need to add water in the hws and pipes, gas and everything that was not factory fitted before weighing, towel rails, cutlery dividers, tv brackets .... everything. On your best day with second hand vans in particular the original tare is generally an very inaccurate artefact. Your tare will be up over 2130kg minimum, without even looking at it. The significance of that is 500kg of payload will be a bare minimum on top of your real world rare, and if you can stay under 500kg with kids, youll be in the minority. Long term travel set up, more so. The weight will quickly add up from there and before you realise youll easily be up around at least 2700kg without trying, so now your looking at a tow veh with 3t tow capacity.

Its a great idea to have a margin in both the car and the van, so you can move stuff about if needed. Good idea to get the van weighed early in, before you add anything of your, so at least youll know your weights and limits on the van and there'll be no surprises down the track.

Sorry, but your Prado hopes have evaporated

 

[Bluey]

I agree with crusty i have a 2014 1756-2 outback ive towed it with my prado with no issues for 4 years but insurance hang over my head the hole time only lucky nothing eva happened cause if it did id get nothing and a hefty bill to pay all damages if any jail time you name it if it goes pear shaped could loose house car van life in general its full on but its the truth dont weigh me i know im miles over for the prado but it tows it very well ......i now have a cruiser youll find the wont find one to bad to drive there very good my wife thought a prado was way to big but now carnt get her out of it she drives cruiser too no dramas you need room and power i get 17 to 20 towing same as my prado but prado working its guts out cruiser doing just that cruiseing down the road easily of corse towing days differ bad wind more fule lime every tow car once you put near 3 tonne behind a car they all cop it plus car thats over 5 tonne nearly so you want to move you need fule and a lot of it i rarely drop under 110 ks up hills evan over take most trucks any van not being towed by a cruiser they love it its what there made for cruiser 5 stars
Oh the plate in my van i got brand new dosnt come close to its real weight

 

[DRW]

Hi and welcome @thetwosweets imagine if Toyota had extracted their digit from their backside and up speced the Prado to tow 3 ton they would have sold 10 times as many but the 200 series sales would have suffered dramatically. 25K is nothing to be sneezed at (especially in these uncertain times) but it limits whats available, I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee as does @Drover mine has 165K on the clock and goes well and they are rated at 3.5 Ton towing capacity , once they have over 80K on them they are virtually worthless but new they don't cost as much as others either, just something to consider.

 

[Drover]

And Im on my 3rd Grand Cherokee so they arent rubbish like some would suggest.

 

[rags]

Hi and welcome @thetwosweets imagine if Toyota had extracted their digit from their backside and up speced the Prado to tow 3 ton they would have sold 10 times as many but the 200 series sales would have suffered dramatically. 25K is nothing to be sneezed at (especially in these uncertain times) but it limits whats available, I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee as does @Drover mine has 165K on the clock and goes well and they are rated at 3.5 Ton towing capacity , once they have over 80K on them they are virtually worthless but new they don't cost as much as others either, just something to consider.

Toyota up rated the Prado to 3 tonne around 2017

 

[thetwosweets]

Toyota up rated the Prado to 3 tonne around 2017

Thanks, above our budget ...

 

[thetwosweets]

Hi and welcome @thetwosweets imagine if Toyota had extracted their digit from their backside and up speced the Prado to tow 3 ton they would have sold 10 times as many but the 200 series sales would have suffered dramatically. 25K is nothing to be sneezed at (especially in these uncertain times) but it limits whats available, I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee as does @Drover mine has 165K on the clock and goes well and they are rated at 3.5 Ton towing capacity , once they have over 80K on them they are virtually worthless but new they don't cost as much as others either, just something to consider.

Something to consider, never been a huge fan but an option...

 

[coys 53]

Howdy, first post here! I have just bought a 2008 18ft Jayco Expanda outback. Pretty excited to take my young family away. We need to buy a 4x4 to tow it with. Thought it would be best to buy van first, then a 4x4 to suit.
Needs for 4x4 are lots of general suburban family driving, decent fuel economy, easy to drive, occasional beach driving, wagon not ute, we are thinking of going in the van for 6-8 months, nothing too extreme but around Aus. Occasional off road but limited.
The caravan weights are ATM 2542, TARE 2067 and ball weight 220kg.
Our budget is $17-$25k for an Auto, diesel wagon.
Had hearts set on Prado (approx 2010 model) as have had and earlier one years ago without issues but as the van ATM is 40kg higher than prados 2500kg limlit, does that mean you cannot tow? I would think that as long as you van total weight is under the max tow weight of car you would be fine? Other options are pajero (approx 2012), issue is once you go above 2500kg the ball weight drops to 180kg...
The wife is less keen to drive landcruisers and patrols etc.
Land rover discovery 4 can work but are they reliable?? Yes, wife loves them, of course...Izusu MUX look like they can tow, seem to be holding value high considering how cheap they are new.
My main question is relating to towing weights when a fraction above limit but not loaded to the ATM limit?
Second question is advice to what 4X4 would work best for our needs and limited budget?
Thanks in advance, Wayne

Welcome Wayne
I have a Landrover Discovery 3 which required major money spending on it when I bought it (lack of research) transmission and timing belt change taking up most of the spend since then just the cost of services and touch wood it's been trouble free. We have a 16ft expanda and the disco tows it with ease. As for the disco 4,as with most things improvements are made with each model built the 4 has a totally different engine/tranny not 100%sure on tranny I would have no problems buying the disco 4 the fuel economy is excellent happy buying

 

[davemc]

depends on which D4. we have the last 3.0 Twin Turbo 8 speed. Seems most kinks out of the way
There been a few updates
Original was basically a new body almost same drive line 2.7 and 6 speed. Same engine as Ford Territory had. People done swaps
3.0 came out as well 6 speed.
think 2013 they went 8 speed rotary gear selector.

Although honestly service costs etc I look at the Mux..

 

[coys 53]

Hi Dave Alan from coys53 we have ours serviced at a British car machanic workshop in Wangara Perth and he charges $300+ for a standard service which is approximately$200+ less than the dealer

 

[BJM]

Simple facts,the WK 2 is the best bang for your buck around.owned and worked on My various Jeeps for over 28 years.Now own a 2012 WK 2 and one of the last built WH s,both diesels.Drive a WK2 ,and then a Prado,chalk and cheese ! Towing capability is outstanding .Great 3 litre turbo engine,comfortable,good braking,go off road if you want to plus good fuel consumption figures when towing.As Drover has said most parts ex Rock Auto in US in 10 days.There have been problems with the Jeep brand,mostly parts supply,plus asshole dealers.However these problems not just a Jeep problem.Toyo still having major problems with DPFs,etc.Any good mechanic who bags current Jeeps is a one to run a mile from.!! As for Toyota LC and Prados retaining their values ,seen ten year old LCs ,over 250000ks, towed probably over 3.5 tons around Aust a few times,owners still want $50000.00 ! A joke.
Just in case one thinks I am a bit too biased,I took Chrysler Aust to court 5 years re a problem with the WH GC.won the case plus got recompense.

 

[davemc]

Hi Dave Alan from coys53 we have ours serviced at a British car machanic workshop in Wangara Perth and he charges $300+ for a standard service which is approximately$200+ less than the dealer

Thanks.. our old D3 we took to a Landy place. The new one been under lease so Land Rover so far. Working on if we re-lease or buy now..
Although parts not cheap..
For the older models you should change the auto oil which means a new pan.

 

[Drover]

Ditto on the above from me........................ I just bought a smicko Grand Cherokee since we had to sell our fully kitted up for off grid Colorado due to medical with Mrs D, found a 2015 Grand, 40,000km, with tow bar but no brake controller, hadn't towed, spent the last 10K as the managers car at the car yard, came with steps, bull bar and other trinkets all for $33 grand, so we jumped on it very quickly and being my 3rd I knew what to look for, even though it had just had its 40K service I changed all the filters and oils so I knew we were starting off clean, now racked up just over 10 since Oct and it purrs, in fact better than the earlier models in a lot of ways....................... it will never darken a dealers workshop though, that would apply no matter what the brand......... You don't want to gop for anything under 3t tow cap and make sure the load doesn't cut the tow ball weight too much then.

 

[benrosenick]

Hi, FWIW Active 4x4 look like they are still doing GCM upgrades for 2.5t GX & GXL Prado 150's giving 3T tow capacity - https://www.active4x4.net/150-prado-tow-upgrade. Not sure where you are; they are in Beresfield new Newcastle NSW.
I upgraded my 2013 Prado 5 years ago, suspension is Ironman and has been good, but the Prado was never happy towing a 3000kg ATM van up hills. Cost was around $3k from memory, including a 2" lift.

 

[thetwosweets]

Something to consider, never been a huge fan but an option...

@
Wow the grand Cherokee are cheap. This one looks good and high spec.
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/de...-overland-auto-4x4-my11/OAG-AD-18583744/?Cr=0
I am concerned with breaking down in the middle of no where? Parts etc. Read a few bad reviews etc....

 

[thetwosweets]

And Im on my 3rd Grand Cherokee so they arent rubbish like some would suggest.

Whats it like getting parts and repairs out of major towns?

 

[coys 53]

Thanks.. our old D3 we took to a Landy place. The new one been under lease so Land Rover so far. Working on if we re-lease or buy now..
Although parts not cheap..
For the older models you should change the auto oil which means a new pan.

$7500 for the new tranny so pan mod done found out later could have bought a recon unit for $3500 fitted oh well it pays to do your research
Alan