Lithium batteries warning

BJM

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Sep 29, 2018
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Yamba
Was chatting to my mate at Grafton City Batteries yesterday re these batteries.He said check your lithium batteries often if getting hot be warned that they can explode at any time as happened recently in a van fire in Nthn rivers.He will no longer fit L in vans etc untill an Aust standard re fitment etc is mandated.He also has seen premature failure in solar power house set ups which he fits. .There is a Aust std for these which includes a fire proof enclosure!Finally these batteries are not easily to recycle if at all in Aust.Therefore he would have to store them himself which is not an option.
 

jazzeddie1234

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May 19, 2016
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I assume it depends on the lithium chemistry and BMS. Also the heat is often from the BMS circuitry rather than the battery cells. I wonder how many vans are fitted with lithium these days vs the number of fires & failures?
 

BJM

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Sep 29, 2018
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The problem is there are no Aust stds yet for lithium batterys setups in RVs.Even with a good bms it will not stop an internal short.They go up very quickly and are very hotfires.Even my 17.55 Outback AGM lead acid battery under the bed wasnt vented to the outside .
 

wynkoop

New Member
Apr 17, 2021
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I had a two way radio with lithium battery go from charging to flaming in about 10 minutes when I stepped out to the garden. Walked back in and smoke billowing from my ham shack. Had to drop the radio in the kitchen sink.

I would not want a large lithium anyplace that I could not jettison it safely & quickly. I know some folks in the USA have gone to lithium on their boats. It is not something I am ready to do. The high energy density compared to lead acid, or NiMh or NiCad translate to more volatility.

I would not want one going up while I am underway or sleeping. I can imagine them as house batteries in a trailer being charged from the tow auto while traveling down the road. The whole camper might be destroyed before you noticed the problem from the tow auto.

If I were going to put in lithium batteries they would go in steel battery boxes that were air tight, furnace rope could be used for the gasket around the door/top to the box. I would also plumb in a fire suppression system. I expect I might even go as far as to put the battery box on the rear bumper of the trailer or on the tongue if I did not have propane there.
 

Brente1982

Active Member
Oct 7, 2019
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@wynkoop sounds like your understanding of lithium batteries is severely lacking. Lithium ion Phosphate batteries are infact very very safe for use in a wide range of fields.
Where they can go wrong, and like a lot of batteries is when they're overcharged. That's why good quality batteries come with a good quality BMS.
Safety isn't even something I've considered when designing my victron system to go under the bed in my van.
 

wynkoop

New Member
Apr 17, 2021
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Brooklyn, NY, USA
@Brente1982 and if the BMS fails as did the one in my radio then you have big trouble, which is why I am not yet ready to start using large sized Lithium, even LiPo batteries in areas where I can not take immediate action to mitigate a violent reaction.
 

Brente1982

Active Member
Oct 7, 2019
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So you're painting a whole plethora of batteries with the same brush. ‍♂️
Talk about over paranoia.
The same exact things can happen with AGM batteries just as easily.
 

Drover

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Nov 7, 2013
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Lithium is used in many small battery situations and the incidence of self combustion is relatively small but it does happen, I think the chances of happening in a van is probably more of a chance due to variations in set up and equipment, it will be interesting to see how these EV vehicles combust, I would if I could afford some I would use them, by the time I can afford them the tech will have improved anyway......... At least if a GEL or AGM fail they don't combust or explode, they just get very hot and swell till they spring a leak and ooze acid everywhere,
 

poor but proud

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Aug 25, 2018
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All of the things we use in caravans are dangerous if not used properly and installed in a correct position by properly qualified person.gas cylinders, electric leads and wiring, fuel storage,use of internal heaters, mucking around with faulty appliances,are all dangerous if not done properly ,by the way airliners have been brought down with faulty lithium batteries and that is from a super regulated industary , you can buy and self install lots of things ,how safely depends on you
 

Crusty181

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Feb 7, 2010
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Every industry will sell whatever they get away with for whatever profits they can maximise, whilst concealing by omission potential failures. We roll the dice every day often without knowing so i suppose if lithium does have built in flaws you can just add lithium to that prestigious list and theyll be in very good company.

Google the Dzhanibekov effect for a great example of not knowing what you dont know, now thats a fun read
 
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BJM

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2018
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Lithium is used in many small battery situations and the incidence of self combustion is relatively small but it does happen, I think the chances of happening in a van is probably more of a chance due to variations in set up and equipment, it will be interesting to see how these EV vehicles combust, I would if I could afford some I would use them, by the time I can afford them the tech will have improved anyway......... At least if a GEL or AGM fail they don't combust or explode, they just get very hot and swell till they spring a leak and ooze acid everywhere,
Crashed Tesla the other day burnt for four hours.!
 

BJM

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2018
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Yamba
All of the things we use in caravans are dangerous if not used properly and installed in a correct position by properly qualified person.gas cylinders, electric leads and wiring, fuel storage,use of internal heaters, mucking around with faulty appliances,are all dangerous if not done properly ,by the way airliners have been brought down with faulty lithium batteries and that is from a super regulated industary , you can buy and self install lots of things ,how safely depends on you
Agree ,however a lithium battery fire can burn at well over 1000c .In seconds.
 

Crusty181

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Feb 7, 2010
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Crashed Tesla the other day burnt for four hours.!
Neither of the charred corpses were anywhere near the drivers seat, and despite the two unfortunates telling witnesses they were going playing on auto pilot, the Official responce by Electric Jesus was the car wasnt on auto pilot, in fact didnt even have auto pilot.

The Troopy doesnt have auto pilot either, but it wouldnt even get out of the garage if i was sitting in the back seat never mind finding a high speed tree miles from home.

I did use to have auto pilot in a car i had when i was 18. It turned on around 4am on a Sarurday morning ... but the auto park could be a little fickle