tare weight

[pomtony]

hey there, I thought I knew the answer to this but after searching and reading Im not so sure.
need a weight ticket on 17.56-2HL for rego purposes
do I disconnect from tow vehicle therefore weighing the whole mass of van (what I thought was tare) or
leave van connected to tow vehicle, therefore weighing mass of van minus ball weight.
should I also take everything off, out, that can easily come off ie. gas bottles, water tank empty, toilet tank empty, annex poles left out?
is there any benefit from having the tare as low as possible?
I tend to think not, as the atm is 2373 on our van, so however the weights add up, 2373 is the limit
cheers
tony

 

[Pace]

Tony, your tare is the van on its own, with gas and tanks full usually from the factory, best to my memory. Personally, I would have it wieghed with gas and tanks full (include the toilet flush tank too), this will give you a greater payload limit ley weigh (pardon the pun).
BUT, should you vehicle towing limit be of lower value (such as the Prado is 2500kgs), then be weary that its too high so you dont do yourself out of payload limit weight (dual axle with shower/toilet is 475kgs, off the top of my head, anybody out the to correct please do ).
Some thought and decision to make on your part, as this will have a bearing on insurance claim in the event of road accident.

Please anyone out there with a different varient on above, enlighten me and Tony, no offence taken. Pace.

 

[17triton]

I thought tare was the van empty of all liquids inc gas but including the gas bottle and fixed items like battery so if you get 2 batteries from the factory it doesn`t eat into your payload weight, But afterwards it does.

 

[pomtony]

Hi Pace, I see what you mean, but isnt the atm (in my case is 2373) the maximum weight allowable for our particular van, therefore being (have to take socks off for this one) erm um hmmm 127 kg inside the prado limit?
I was thinking that the 1 main ruling weight was the atm, therefore it doesnt matter what is in the van weight wise, as long as it all doesnt go over 2373 (in my case)
cheers
tony

 

[DroversDog]

I agree with 17triton and you are right, pomtony. I think this is consistent with this guide http://www.towingguide.com.au/content/definitions.html.

The important limits to stay within are the ATM and the ball weight (which, in the case of a Prado, are 2500kg and 250kg respectively).

 

[Sunny]

Hey there,
I assume you have a jayco compliance plate on the van which is where you've found the ATM? I would be curious to see how close you go to your stamped TARE on the plate?
My queries regarding TARE weight have me agreeing with 17triton and his explanation.
You can always contact the head office in Melbourne, state your chassis number and they can inform you of what was included with the van at the factory / time of compliancing and all weighbridge weights if that helps?

Where the weights get frustrating in my mind is irrespective of your TARE weight according to Jayco and an Industry Engineer I spoke to each model van is equipped with a particular chassis and therefore permitted to carry a specific maximum weight. So any attempt to have your ATM decreased by lowering your TARE is futile!
That being said, there are cases where Engineers have increased a vans ATM for customers but I am not aware of the process or what is involved. Also, Jayco have yet to answer me why I have seen 4 different ATM weights on identical model vans to ours...

 

[Antman]

Yes i agree with 17triton. ATM is the maximum allowable weight of your van. When you Minus your payload from the ATM you get your Tare weight. Dual axle shower toilet im pretty sure as pace said, is 475kgs.
Your Tare weight does not include your water or gas etc.
Sunny, I would think that every van would have slightly varied ATMs / Tare weights as they would be individually weighed at factory once the van has been completed. It would be interesting to know how much different from your van these others were if they were exactly the same. IE if batteries were purchased with the van or fitted afterwards etc. Best to have as much factory fitted as this then gets added to your Tare rather then eating into your payload if fitted after market.

At the end of the day if you were to be pulled over and weighed, most times they would weigh your complete combination or car and trailer. So your combination Mass is what matters most in this respect. Also remember when looking at towball weights that these are calculated before adding any form of weight distribution hitch setup.

As always safety first and don't overload. Be aware of van payload, towball weights as this will change depending on how you load the van and your car payload.

Tony im assuming you have a prado - to work out the prado payload, get the cars total weight and minus the kerb weight then you have the cars payload. Also, i heard a rumour that when the new prado is released that the tow weight will be upgraded to 3Tonne but same as Pajero if over 2.5t towball max downgraded from 250kgs to 180kgs. Although i think most tandam axels probably won't get to that.

Cheers
Ants

 

[pomtony]

hi people many thanks for replies, ok went to Brisvegas wed evening to get van, left just on dark, van travelled like a dream, prado handled it well, not a worry.
spent day and half cleaning van inside and out (neglectfull owners yuk).
van is now smick as.
went to refuse station (tip in old money) and got her weighed, water tanks empty, everything reasonable out of van, toilet flush empty, hot water full, gas bottles as they came (no idea how full) annex and poles left at home.
original tare was 1898, new tare is 1940, so thats 22 for hot water, potentially 18+ for gas-bottles, and say 1 for water in lines, so thats not far off.
although 2 full tanks and clothes and bedding and food etc etc will soon be approaching my atm of 2373.
I am toying with the idea of trying to get the atm raised a little
now have to fit the breaksafe remote monitor before the inspection
cheers
tony

 

[Sunny]

The Greatest variation I saw was a friends 18.57.6, he didn't have the battery but had washing machine, innerspring mattress, external speakers/tv point, drifter panel and shelving installed in his rear closet extra to ours. His ATM was 2479 compared with mine at 2563...
The way they explained it carrying capacity was bound by a vans tow hitch, chassis, springs, rims, tyres, brakes etc.
So, that's why I find it confusing that ATM's vary so much across each individual model without any changes being made to the sub frame/ suspension??
Also, I could be wrong but ATM minus ball weight will give you your GTM then subtract TARE weight from it to see what allowance you have for payload.

Enough to give anyone a headache I rekon?!

 

[pomtony]

what ill try to work on is atm, we have relos who race cars and have scales, im hoping they have sufficient capacity to put van on and get a ball scale, then i can load van and monitor items untill atm is achieved
cheers
tony

 

[relgate]

I must say I've always been perplexed by the ATM. Surely the van is engineered to carry a certain weight and that should be the ATM, not the TARE plus 475kg. It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[acmackie]

@relgate if they did that then there is less incentive to pay too much for Jayco to install options on the line just so they are included in tare.

 

[pomtony]

I agree relgate, the compliance plate states axle capacity of 2700, so makes more sence to have an atm of say 2450 across the board for that model, not varying like they do

 

[CJ1177]

How is it possible that my ATM is higher than my axle capacity, I would have thought the axle capacity would be equal to or higher than the ATM
ATM =1910
Axle capacity= 1850

 

[relgate]

How is it possible that my ATM is higher than my axle capacity, I would have thought the axle capacity would be equal to or higher than the ATM
ATM =1910
Axle capacity= 1850

Opened a can of worms...

 

[pomtony]

oh my

 

[Rockape]

How is it possible that my ATM is higher than my axle capacity, I would have thought the axle capacity would be equal to or higher than the ATM
ATM =1910
Axle capacity= 1850

Hi,
ATM = tow ball mass + gross tare mass ( weight on the tyres/ axle and payload ). If you look up www.towingguide.com.au you will find a good explanation on all the weight calculations.
Most importantly you have to make sure the tow all weight and the weight on the tyres (gross tare mass are not exceeded.
Hope that helps