Single axle outbacks

[GUlewis]

Hi everyone,

Just needing some feedback from those who have single axle Jayco outbacks running the Jtech suspension. I'm considering a 16ft Journey, which when loaded up will be 2T plus. How do people find the handling of theirs? I'm downsizing from a 17ft Expanda tandem axle, so I'm a little concerned about the weight.

Cheers.

 

[MDS69]

I have a 14' OB with the Jtech suspension and extended draw bar. I guess any sudden lane changes at 100km/h it can get a bit tailly (spelling) but I also have the ESC so if it got too wild it gets back under control pretty quick. Towing along the Darling River in outback NSW for a few hundred kays on dirt with cattle grids etc it went beautifully. I have never towed a tandem axle so I couldn't offer a comparison.

 

[GUlewis]

Yeah I would expect a little sway under those conditions as you mentioned.

 

[WHHEMI]

I have a tandem axle Jouney so cant answer your question but you could ask it here.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/810998645581694/

 

[Dobbie]

Hi everyone,

Just needing some feedback from those who have single axle Jayco outbacks running the Jtech suspension. I'm considering a 16ft Journey, which when loaded up will be 2T plus. How do people find the handling of theirs? I'm downsizing from a 17ft Expanda tandem axle, so I'm a little concerned about the weight.

Cheers.

We had a 2014 16-49-3 with a Tare of 1817 and ATM of 2172 which gave us a payload of 375, as expected. Single axle.

Jtech suspension and ESC.....it was brilliant in terms of handling. We travelled over 20,000 kms with it over 18 months and did the usual combination of dirt roads, awful corrugations, highway etc and had no issues with sway.

The thing to be careful with is not to exceed the payload with aftermarket stuff you add on....heavy boxes, bikes, boats, pizza ovens .....but keep with the payload and balance the load.

That combination of Jtech and ESC gives great stability and handling.

Good luck with it.

 

[GUlewis]

Thanks for the comments, just needed a bit of reassuring.

 

[mikerezny]

We had a 2014 16-49-3 with a Tare of 1817 and ATM of 2172 which gave us a payload of 375, as expected. Single axle.

Jtech suspension and ESC.....it was brilliant in terms of handling. We travelled over 20,000 kms with it over 18 months and did the usual combination of dirt roads, awful corrugations, highway etc and had no issues with sway.

The thing to be careful with is not to exceed the payload with aftermarket stuff you add on....heavy boxes, bikes, boats, pizza ovens .....but keep with the payload and balance the load.

That combination of Jtech and ESC gives great stability and handling.

Good luck with it.

Hi @Dobbie,
I have been getting my head around caravan weights and came across this posting. Correct me if I am wrong but there seems to be a typo concerning the weights. Maximum Payload = ATM - Tare. So in the posting ATM of 2172kg - Tare of 1817 kg = 355 kg not 375 kg.
Or, at 2am, am I missing something?

cheers
Mike

 

[Dobbie]

Hi Mike...you're correct!

My typo. 355 payload.

I just went back to my calculation...don't have this van any more...and the bits we used are:

Tare: 1817
ATM: 2172. So payload for the van. 355

With tow ball empty 173
Max. 208

GTM 1999


We then deducted from the 355
Gas / water. 200
Weber etc. 30
Pantry items. 40
Personal gear. 30
Poles ropes 10
Cooking gear. 10. 320

Which gave us a margin within the payload allowance for the van

For interest: the details we used for the car: Nissan Patrol

Tare. 2478
GVM. 3060. Payload 582 allowed

Include:
Passengers. 180
Gear carried in car. 50
Bull tow bars. 50
Racks. 20
Battery 2. 38
Fuel (10pc) 15
Tow ball wt. 190 Actual payload 543

And also gave a margin within the payload allowance for the car.

Gross Combined Mass. GTM (van). Plus GVM (car).
1999. 3060. 5059
Actual from w/ bridge. 4985

Our Nissan has a sliding penalty for actual tow ball weights ...ours fell within the minimum range so that's not included.

I can't recall why the measured weight was a bit inaccurate but the main things to be careful with are

• the details on the vehicle (not just the max tow ball wt and towing potential)
• the items to be included from add ons ...bull bar, racks etc
• Passengers and gear

Yes, it's a minefield and takes a bit of persistence to get the details.

Good luck with getting your head around it....and apologies for my typo.

 

[mikerezny]

Hi Mike...you're correct!

My typo. 355 payload.

I just went back to my calculation...don't have this van any more...and the bits we used are:

Tare: 1817
ATM: 2172. So payload for the van. 355

With tow ball empty 173
Max. 208

GTM 1999


We then deducted from the 355
Gas / water. 200
Weber etc. 30
Pantry items. 40
Personal gear. 30
Poles ropes 10
Cooking gear. 10. 320

Which gave us a margin within the payload allowance for the van

For interest: the details we used for the car: Nissan Patrol

Tare. 2478
GVM. 3060. Payload 582 allowed

Include:
Passengers. 180
Gear carried in car. 50
Bull tow bars. 50
Racks. 20
Battery 2. 38
Fuel (10pc) 15
Tow ball wt. 190 Actual payload 543

And also gave a margin within the payload allowance for the car.

Gross Combined Mass. GTM (van). Plus GVM (car).
1999. 3060. 5059
Actual from w/ bridge. 4985

Our Nissan has a sliding penalty for actual tow ball weights ...ours fell within the minimum range so that's not included.

I can't recall why the measured weight was a bit inaccurate but the main things to be careful with are

• the details on the vehicle (not just the max tow ball wt and towing potential)
• the items to be included from add ons ...bull bar, racks etc
• Passengers and gear

Yes, it's a minefield and takes a bit of persistence to get the details.

Good luck with getting your head around it....and apologies for my typo.

Hi @Dobbie,
thanks for checking. It is so confusing even AL-KO can't get it right! This is why I was also getting confused.

From what I can work out:

Tare is the total empty weight of the van as it left the factory.
ATM = Tare + max Payload
and ATM = Weight on the Axles (GTM) + Towball Mass (TBM)

which seems simple enough to understand.

BUT, have a look at the "Without a Hitch" newsletter put out by AL-KO:
http://www.withoutahitch.com.au/caravan/understanding-caravan-tow/ng-capacity/

=========
ATM (aggregate trailer mass)

This is the tare mass of your caravan plus its maximum payload. It’s the maximum your caravan is allowed to weigh in transit. This is a rating set by the manufacturer and cannot be exceeded.

ATM = tare mass (caravan) + max payload
==========

This agrees with other sites I looked at, including those that are quoting from the regulations.

BUT, further down the page:

==============
Maximum payload (caravan)

The maximum weight that can be loaded into the caravan for towing. This does not include the weight of people inhabiting the caravan while stationery, but does need to take into account water, gas and accessories you’ve added to the caravan since purchasing it.This rating is set by the manufacturer and cannot be exceeded.

Maximum payload= ATM – tare mass (caravan) – tow ball mass
================

Which seems to contradict the first part.
What makes it worse is that in two other forums, the second incorrect definition is being used. So the error propagates.

Or, have I got it wrong?

cheers
Mike

 

[Dobbie]

I think you're right but would have to look at that other forum and I don't have the intestinal fortitude to attempt that earliesh in the morning.

There's definitely a process.....

The specs of the vehicle first....for payload, axle specs etc...then work out what you normally would load in to the vehicle....then the approx tow ball weight of the van....to see if it's feasible.

and then the choice of van....with its published (guessed) weights including axle specs, what hardware you'll add to that, what you expect to add for personal use.

If that checks out, your GCM should be ok ....and safe.

 

[mikerezny]

Hi @Dobbie,
here is the quote from the Jayco Forum that I believe is incorrect:

I would be interested in your and other people's opinions on this.

My understanding is that you subtract the Tare from the ATM to find the maximum payload.
In this case, 3106kg (ATM) - 2506kg (Tare) = 600kg maximum payload.
This comes from the compliance plate of a non-outback 21.65-3.

Another question is how come this van has a 600kg maximum payload? The sales brochure online shows a maximum of only 475kg.

==========
If you start with the ATM 3106kgs and take TBW 224kgs you get GTM 2882Kgs. Take the Tare 2506kgs from the 2882kgs and you get a load capacity of 376kgs (of stuff you can put in the caravan. Check my maths). Not sure why the assumption is 600kgs, but if you take the Tare off the ATM it is 600kgs.
==========

cheers
Mike

 

[Drover]

Not getting into this ATM,GCM stuff it's been well covered......................What you have to take note of is any single axle that is going to be over 2t you start to get into limited tyres with the LR you need, at 2t they would really need to be a LR 115 at least to give you some lee way.
As always take the promulgated loadings on brochure and tally plates with a grain of salt.

 

[Dobbie]

I think you'll find the payload allowance for a tandem is higher than for a single axle. I'd be surprised if it's higher than 375 and then, only with upgraded suspension.

There's so much argument and debate about this and I seem to be saying the same thing ...often...so I'll keep out of further discussion.

I've done my calculations for my situation and I'm happy with that.....others can now come at it from another angle if they wish but I applaud your interest Mike.