Electrical Setec battery management query

GrahamHolland

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Oct 29, 2020
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Hi Expanda's. I'm new to this forum and have had some great conversations in my introduction post. I have a query regarding the Setec ST20 fitted to my Jayco as standard. I have been investigating the charging/management of a new AGM battery that I have installed, and today I discovered that some of my lights would still operate even with the fuses removed from the Setec unit. I had to remove the main battery fuse in the Setec to disconnect the circuit. I found that 2 of the fuse holders have a short circuit when the fuse wedge is removed (pictured).
Has anyone seen this before? I suspect there may be a solder bridge on the circuit board, or a wiring fault, maybe from new. Boots, this is probably right up your alley given our recent conversations, a bit tricky.
Cheers, Graham

Shorted fuse.jpg
 

rags

Well-Known Member
Can’t help you much on the Setec. I can say that with my 12.37 I ditched the Jayco charging system, put in an Enerdrive charging system ( along with 2x 140 amp AGM batteries and 360 watt of solar and have never looked back. For all the different light and power circuits I set up a fuse panel. Cost a few dollars but im happy with the outcom.
Has kept a compressor fridge running faultlessly along with all the other power needs for around 2 years.
 

GrahamHolland

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Oct 29, 2020
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Hi rags, what was the Jayco charging system that you removed? I'm keen to get my Setec to work properly, there must be a bunch of them in service and working OK. They seem to get a bad wrap and there's plenty of ideas to improve and upgrade to alternatives (as you have done). As far as I can tell, the Setec ST20 that I have was probably OK in the day, but not up to modern standards. Any advice welcomed.
Cheers, Graham
 

mikerezny

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Sep 11, 2016
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Hi,
it is possible, but unlikely to be a solder bridge on the circuit board.

I would suggest the possibility that something could be wrong in the external wiring side.

Take careful note of the wires going to the Setec terminals. Note the number of the fuseholder that is measuring S/C and remove the wire from the Setec. So, for example, if fuse holder 3 is measuring S/C, remove the wire from L3+ and measure again.

Here is the manual for the Setec Series II.

take care
Mike
 

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Drover

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I found my lights were wired so the light was on the POS side of the switch which made for fun and games when I extended the circuit......... so more than likely wobbly wiring, originally there should only be one wire from each battery terminal if not then the other could be feeding back to the Setek from whatever its doing.
 
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Crusty181

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Hi rags, what was the Jayco charging system that you removed? I'm keen to get my Setec to work properly, there must be a bunch of them in service and working OK. They seem to get a bad wrap and there's plenty of ideas to improve and upgrade to alternatives (as you have done). As far as I can tell, the Setec ST20 that I have was probably OK in the day, but not up to modern standards. Any advice welcomed.
Cheers, Graham
Don't be too quick to poo poo the Setec. I have an 11-year-old 120ah AGM battery that has only ever been connected to Setecs, 5 years on a Setec II and 6 years on a Setec III. That battery has seen 100,000km, 800+ days on the road, and recently load tested at 90% of its original 120ah capacity. If you can find a better outcome from any other system with any other type of battery at any cost Id be very interested.

The only criticism I have is the low 12v input current from the car whilst in transit, but in my case I have a large solar array so that isnt so much an issue for me.
 

GrahamHolland

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Oct 29, 2020
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Thanks for the ideas everyone. I removed all of the circuit wiring from the Setec and there is a definite short circuit across 2 of the fuse holders. I have swung the corresponding circuits to adjacent fuses and will leave the faulty ones in place. With less than 1 amp per circuit I could pretty much just run everything off 1 of the 7.5 amp fuses.
Thanks mikerezny for the manual, I have one for my S20, but the S20-II manual is more comprehensive. Doe anyone know if the graph for "Battery charging voltage over time" on page 10 is the same for the earlier ST20? I haven't seen this detail of info' on the S20 but it's supposed to be a smart charger so hopefully it will serve us well.
Cheers, Graham
 

Boots in Action

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Mar 13, 2017
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Hi Expanda's. I'm new to this forum and have had some great conversations in my introduction post. I have a query regarding the Setec ST20 fitted to my Jayco as standard. I have been investigating the charging/management of a new AGM battery that I have installed, and today I discovered that some of my lights would still operate even with the fuses removed from the Setec unit. I had to remove the main battery fuse in the Setec to disconnect the circuit. I found that 2 of the fuse holders have a short circuit when the fuse wedge is removed (pictured).
Has anyone seen this before? I suspect there may be a solder bridge on the circuit board, or a wiring fault, maybe from new. Boots, this is probably right up your alley given our recent conversations, a bit tricky.
Cheers, Graham

View attachment 65981

Hi @GrahamHolland, you are right into it already. Firstly a summary of responses so far. From @rags - a great upgrade and well proven to meet his existing requirements. Whether he needed to change the Setec is problematic, but the Enerdrive system is later technology and the upgrade had a cost.
From @Crusty181 , generally very accurate and truthful. The change from an ST20 series II to the Series III is small - extra fused outlets (8 instead of 6), an extra isolating battery switch but not much else as I remember. The Setec ST20 or ST35 Series II or III are fairy sophisticated battery management system for its time, with a very slow charge rate if very flat (to protect battery) but can reach 10 or 15A when connected to grid as well as providing power to other van equipment. It has a very poor (too low) low voltage disconnect of 10.0 volts and a slow staged low voltage re-connect as battery voltage increases. Battery would well and truly be "cactus" and probably beyond full recovery if allowed to get that low. Not user changeable. The matter of too lower voltage for an AGM has been mentioned but @Crusty181 has been able to get good life out of his AGMs. However, his modern MPPT controller would be keeping the voltage higher when off grid than the Setec would when connected to grid. Limited charging ability when connected to car as a power diode is inline with the car input and knocks 0.8 volt off vehicle charging voltage. Car alternators do not charge auxiliary batteries very well (see attached) but @rags Enerdrive overcomes this problem with BC to DC charging.
@mikerezny is on the right track as far as I am concerned. On the other side to the fuses are the numbered circuits Pos and Neg for each numbered circuit. These must be matched and the fuse is just an inline protection between the battery and the load. If you remove the NEG from the back of the Setec (corresponding to the fuse circuit), that will prevent the return to the common neg earth for the Setec and van. There will always be voltage across the fuse terminals, and if if there is a circuit through a load and back to the Neg on the Setec, there will be current. Check with ammeter. It there was a short circuit, the fuse would be blown as it is only rated at 10A (or should be!) and all 6 circuits have a max load protection of 20A. If you are getting a current reading across the fuse terminals , there is a load somewhere on that circuit - outside light, radio (whether on or off), or a switch on that you do not know about. The best way would be to remove ALL fuses 10A ones but leave the 20A one in. Then after making sure circuit numbers for Pos and Neg wires are matched at back of Setec, replace that fuze, see what works and mark fuse and lines accordingly. Do this for each circuit making sure other fuses are removed as they are proven so that you are only working on one circuit at a time. When you locate what circuit/s are a problem, time to start tracing that circuit and wiring, and see what you find. Get back on this forum for possible answers.
 

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Drover

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The thing is before one goes blowing $$ on bits and bobs;

First question: Am I going away and staying at Caravan Parks or Off Grid ?

Answer: If Caravan Parks then the Setek will do a great job trickle charging your battery while 240 does the hard yards..........

............. If off Grid again the Setek will do a great job as its only a distribution box for the battery power which is getting charged up from a large array of solar panels which don't have anything to do with the Setek but connected to a decent regulator keep things up to speed.
Big Mal doesn't get any charge from the Jeeperific at all, just a direct run of juice for the fridge, in fact solar does the charging the batteries there is no other option for charging from tug and it has a 240v charger as back up or a Genny, rarely used for charging though............

The most important thing is to check all connectors on many vans not just Jayco I have found some shocking terminal crimps which ended up being the main cause of problems. I have also found the fuzed circuits didn't match the name tags which did make some sparks at first.....

When parked up at home keep van plugged in to 240 charging the battery and they will last longer than you keep the van, doesn't need a 15amp socket either as its only a charger being used...........need the 15amp when you start running the HWS, kettle and toaster at the same time.........

One mod I would do if it hasn't got it, is fit a switch/circuit breaker to shut battery off from Setek or other circuits, damn sight easier when you want to do maintenance.
 

GrahamHolland

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Oct 29, 2020
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Wodonga Vic
Cheers everyone for the reply's. Our intention is to do mostly off grid camping. Long weekends etc, and maybe a very occasional caravan park holiday. With only a couple of LED lights to run from the 105ah Century battery, I think we can do long weekends fairly comfortably. The gas fridge works a treat too, so off grid should be a walk in the park. If it turns out we are running short of power, I think the option of an external Anderson plug or similar, to plug in a portable solar panel would be a great addition. Still not sure about the Setec ST20 charging specs. It may not be as smart as the ST 20-II, but there is no information that I can see to work out if it does the 14.05v boost (15min every 24hrs) like the ST-II which would be nice. I'm considering buying an appropriate charger to plug in when we get home from a camping, but it may not be necessary.
It seems charging of caravan battery's from a tow vehicle is problematic while travelling, at least without spending $$. But as far as providing a 12v supply from the tow vehicle to run the fridge when travelling, is this worth considering? I have heard that caravan fridges barely hold their own on 12v, but we haven't had any experience ourselves. I have an electrical background, mostly in High Voltage so am enjoying learning about the world of deep cycle battery's and charging systems from you guys.
I have replaced the 240v external power sockets, as they had the weather flaps broken off when we picked the van up, and noticed the quality of wiring installation was pretty ordinary. All fixed now though.
Cheers, Graham
 

Drover

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In that case the Setek is not an issue...I would have solar to charge it while off grid as keeping the battery topped up will keep it happy, just running down over a weekend then charging it at home shortens their life by many years...
The 3 way fridge only runs on 12v when driving down the road, 240 or gas when camping, on 12v it would kill the battery in an hour..
Fire up fridge 48hrs before departure, load fridge 24 hrs before then you will have the fridge fully prepped for camping, turning it on the night before and loading it just before departure isnt getting the cabinet fully chilled.
 
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GrahamHolland

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Great, that gives me the excuse to look for some solar gear. I kind of like the idea of a portable panel rather than a roof mounted one. The first thing we look for when choosing a camp spot is shade, so portable seems the likely choice.
Pre-cooling the 3 way fridge sounds like the go, and it would no doubt stay cool for an hour or 2 until we find a good spot for a few days. Looking forward to this summer:becky:
AC/DC is great listening too.
Cheers, Graham
 

Boots in Action

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Cheers everyone for the reply's. Our intention is to do mostly off grid camping. Long weekends etc, and maybe a very occasional caravan park holiday. With only a couple of LED lights to run from the 105ah Century battery, I think we can do long weekends fairly comfortably. The gas fridge works a treat too, so off grid should be a walk in the park. If it turns out we are running short of power, I think the option of an external Anderson plug or similar, to plug in a portable solar panel would be a great addition. Still not sure about the Setec ST20 charging specs. It may not be as smart as the ST 20-II, but there is no information that I can see to work out if it does the 14.05v boost (15min every 24hrs) like the ST-II which would be nice. I'm considering buying an appropriate charger to plug in when we get home from a camping, but it may not be necessary.
It seems charging of caravan battery's from a tow vehicle is problematic while travelling, at least without spending $$. But as far as providing a 12v supply from the tow vehicle to run the fridge when travelling, is this worth considering? I have heard that caravan fridges barely hold their own on 12v, but we haven't had any experience ourselves. I have an electrical background, mostly in High Voltage so am enjoying learning about the world of deep cycle battery's and charging systems from you guys.
I have replaced the 240v external power sockets, as they had the weather flaps broken off when we picked the van up, and noticed the quality of wiring installation was pretty ordinary. All fixed now though.
Cheers, Graham
Again @GrahamHolland , your statements are generally correct., as are @Drover's. In my opinion and from my own experiences, the Setec is satisfactory for keeping an AGM reasonably charged whilst on grid and maybe okay for some at home. But if I have been away at a caravan park and using the Setec for a few days, I find that when I connect my "smart" charger at home, (battery is 120ah AGM now more than 7 years' old) it immediately starts charging (even if not used since disconnection from grid , and continues until fully charged at 14.7 volts and then switches to Float voltage. I always leave it on for 36 to 48 hours to ensure full saturation and SOC is always 13.0 volts after charging is disconnected for a few hours and remains at 13.0 volts even a week later. The Setec will only give me 12.6 volts under the same conditions. See attached.
I am unable to offer any technical info on your your Setec as it is an earlier model, but perhaps you can contact the makers for data.

If you really want to have full voltage to van fridge when travelling, you have to go the way of @rags and @Crusty181 who have BC to DC charging. The only way to go if you wish to spend the money. However, depending on the output of your vehicle's alternator, you can still get acceptable cooling for your 3 way fridge, if you can reduce the voltage drop in the wiring between the vehicle alternator and fridge connection. 6AWG cabling and a separate electrical line connection from alternator direct to the fridge with the use of Anderson plugs is the best way to do it. It does not then go through the Setec and the power diode. There is still a separate wire in the van loom which goes through the Setec and to the van battery for some sort of charging for the van battery albeit not high enough really, whilst travelling. @mikerezny has a good system and has good cooling to his fridge from his late model Falcon and I can keep things cold and the freezer at minus 18C with my tug. However, you must have some way of disconnecting the fridge line when you stop the engine and one that is fail-proof and does not rely on your memory unless you are good at it!! I have a VSR (voltage sensitive relay) on my tug and it automatically cuts the fridge circuit when voltage drops below 12.6 volts when the engine is not going. It completes the circuit again automatically when voltage exceeds 13.4 volts after start up. More to spend your money on!

However, as @Drover has mentioned, the 3 way fridge running on 12 volts plus?? from the tug is never enough to pull down the warm contents and should never be used for that purpose or be expected. But if you prepare your fridge well beforehand and fill it with cold/frozen foods, I believe it is well worth having it connected to my tug. Definitely better than using fridge as just a large Esky!! Not a lot to spend, just cabling, Anderson plugs and your time to fit. VSRs and other devices can be added later...usually after you have forgotten to disconnect the fridge and both your van and tug batteries are flat!!! Keep on keeping on!!
 

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Drover

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Throwing a few hundred watts of solar on the roof saves a lot of dollars and stuffing around setting your tug up to charge your batteries, save heaps of dollars by setting your van up to charge your batteries off grid makes more sense than spending the dollars twice.

Depending how your fridge has been installed it will work as an esky for a few hours but some haven't so a few hours means they can be a food warmer..... runig 12v from tug direct to fridge is quite easy once you take away the waffle, forget about the 7 or 12 pin plug and just run a 8 B&S cable from battery to and anderson on tow hitch and the same from fridge to an anderson on draw bar, plug in when hooked up, just remember to unplug when stopped and you don't need to stuff around with fridge switches etc................. Just use the 7/12 pin for tail lights etc they are just troublesome for everything else.
 
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GrahamHolland

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Once again, great ideas from you guys. The things I am convinced on, based on good evidence from you all:
*Solar enhancement for off grid camping.
*Nice charger for when we get home from a camp.
*Hot wire to the fridge from the tow vehicle, & pre cooling.
I reckon we can achieve these improvements without breaking the bank and for our first caravan, this will be a rippa' weekender once we have these bits sorted.
Cheers, Graham
 

Drover

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I think some on roof and a nice 120w or so portable would keep it all happy and give a bit of future proofing....................... But it does all depend on the build of the van as to if its easy enough to do without a lot of stuffing around, it does require some good handyman skills to fit panel to roof run cables etc as well as allowing mounting of the reg in a decent position, of course battery location in a spot that will allow at a later date another one to be fitted, as thinking and allowing for the possibility is always wise................ The rule of thumb is 200w of panel for every 100ah of storage and its actually pretty well correct, more so than the stated output of panels which I have found is usually more like 30% less than stated, my view is set things up so that once set up it does its own thing and you don't have to worry about it, if you always have to fiddle or check then why go away in the first place...............
Sounds like your certainly on the right track to enoyable times away................
 

Boots in Action

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Once again, great ideas from you guys. The things I am convinced on, based on good evidence from you all:
*Solar enhancement for off grid camping.
*Nice charger for when we get home from a camp.
*Hot wire to the fridge from the tow vehicle, & pre cooling.
I reckon we can achieve these improvements without breaking the bank and for our first caravan, this will be a rippa' weekender once we have these bits sorted.
Cheers, Graham
Hello again @GrahamHolland , I did some research on the early Setec ST20 (Series I???) and attached is the story. It is really worse than I thought if that is what you have. Firstly, max charge current is limited to only 5A and low voltage disconnect is as low as 9.0 volts. Recharging for a battery which is that low is 1.2 A until it rises to greater than 9 volts and then charging can reach the marvelous level of 5A! Far, far too low to recover properly. Later models have improved somewhat , so don't rely on your early type Setec too much. A good "smart" charger is certainly a better option for when you get home from what I have read about the Series I ???type. It also does not have the regular Boost voltage for 15 minutes every 24 hours if not used. I could not see reference to it in the manual.
The other thing about AGMs is that they work better with lots of smaller discharges to say 80% SOC and then charged up (fully) rather than longer and deep discharges say to 60% SOC. This for more info for you to digest.

 

GrahamHolland

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Oct 29, 2020
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Wodonga Vic
Thanks Boots. Yep, this is the manual that came with our van, and I had suspected that it might not be as smart as required. On the up side we now have a smart charger for post camping recharge, so we should be right now that I have my head around the whole deep cycle maintenance requirements. Time will tell if solar panels are required, and I can keep a close eye on things as we use the van some more. I believe a couple of hours of LED lights in the evening will hardly put a dent in the 105Ah Century.
Cheers, Graham