Electrical New 12 set up

[macpanda]

So I’ve spent the last week (or three) researching me new 12v set up for 18.57-2(2010). We are heading (wife and 2 kids) off for 7 month and will be aiming for mostly off grid camping. Looking for any thoughts or suggestions before I start spending some money! This is what I am thinking:

- separated 6b&s with ignition isolators for the dmax with separate Anderson plugs. One for the fridge (red) and the other for Dcdc charger
- convert existing 8b&s cable for the fridge tlin van (from current 12 pin to red Anderson)
- run new 6b&s in van to new 20A dcdc charger. Was thinking of bigger but have done some reading and the dmax has a 90 amp alternator which I don’t want to overload.
- add another 400w solar to the roof, with new 8b&s to new 40 amp mppt solar charger. Also remove old solar converter and redirect existing 160 w panels to new mppt.
- add a direct cable with Anderson to battery for outside 200w portable blanket panel for times when I am in the shade
- new 2 x 100ah lithium battery
- disconnect from power and add new low amp 240v charger if occasional top up needed if we have power
- 2000w inverter

Any thoughts or tips very much appreciated. As always, trying to keep the cost down to a minimum. So I will be installing myself, I want to know what is where so I can do any fixes and additions while on the road. I am thinking of renology kit, looks ok and price is decent. Only thought was to put a combined 50amp dcdc solar converter combo in, but i can’t see a way to limit the amperage draw from the alternative. 50 amps for dcdc, 15 or so for the fridge, plus losses, from a 90amp alternator doesn’t seem like much left over!?

 

[macpanda]

So I’ve spent the last week (or three) researching me new 12v set up for 18.57-2(2010). We are heading (wife and 2 kids) off for 7 month and will be aiming for mostly off grid camping. Looking for any thoughts or suggestions before I start spending some money! This is what I am thinking:

- separated 6b&s with ignition isolators for the dmax with separate Anderson plugs. One for the fridge (red) and the other for Dcdc charger
- convert existing 8b&s cable for the fridge tlin van (from current 12 pin to red Anderson)
- run new 6b&s in van to new 20A dcdc charger. Was thinking of bigger but have done some reading and the dmax has a 90 amp alternator which I don’t want to overload.
- add another 400w solar to the roof, with new 8b&s to new 40 amp mppt solar charger. Also remove old solar converter and redirect existing 160 w panels to new mppt.
- add a direct cable with Anderson to battery for outside 200w portable blanket panel for times when I am in the shade
- new 2 x 100ah lithium battery
- disconnect from power and add new low amp 240v charger if occasional top up needed if we have power
- 2000w inverter

Any thoughts or tips very much appreciated. As always, trying to keep the cost down to a minimum. So I will be installing myself, I want to know what is where so I can do any fixes and additions while on the road. I am thinking of renology kit, looks ok and price is decent. Only thought was to put a combined 50amp dcdc solar converter combo in, but i can’t see a way to limit the amperage draw from the alternative. 50 amps for dcdc, 15 or so for the fridge, plus losses, from a 90amp alternator doesn’t seem like much left over!?

Also, any thought on 1 x 200ah battery vs 2 x 100ah? A single might be cheaper and save space, but I’m thinking 2 x 100ah might be better in case I need to add another 100 later?

 

[Drover]

If setting up for off-grid, 460w on roof is good, I would go 2x100ah lithiums, if one croaks your not stranded, a good MPPT reg compatable with lithium will be all you need...... mine is 440w on roof and keeps everything happy with 120w portable if needed... remember if using a blanket panel to sling it like an awning throwing on the ground or over a vehicle is no good and will hasten its demise.

See no need for throwing money on a DC/DC charger for your tug to charge vans batteries, your solar doesn't care if van stationery or moving it will charge all the same, my rig has no power from tug at all other than for fridge, been like that for many years.... save your money... Only needed if you don't have solar.

Your lithiums will need a lithium capable 240v charger though, not all lithiums are the same either, the BMS contained in each brand operates differently so make sure you match things up...... again even though I have GEL batteries my 240 charger is rarely used, maybe once every few years and then because of multiple cloudy days and I plug genny in...........

Remember all the calls for 20amp charging or more really only applies when your batteries are knackered, in real life if they need that all the time you are putting too much demand on your storage and it needs to be increased..............

Earlier D-Max I fitted I just ran fridge cable from battery to anderson at rear, 8 B&S with a fridge switch on fridge,(easier than ginning around looking for an ignition wire) everything worked happily ...... ran POS from battery terminal and NEG from battery chassis earth, I can't recall seeing any junction box between chassis earth and battery on NEG cable which is usual for smart alternators....

 

[Boots in Action]

So I’ve spent the last week (or three) researching me new 12v set up for 18.57-2(2010). We are heading (wife and 2 kids) off for 7 month and will be aiming for mostly off grid camping. Looking for any thoughts or suggestions before I start spending some money! This is what I am thinking:

- separated 6b&s with ignition isolators for the dmax with separate Anderson plugs. One for the fridge (red) and the other for Dcdc charger
- convert existing 8b&s cable for the fridge tlin van (from current 12 pin to red Anderson)
- run new 6b&s in van to new 20A dcdc charger. Was thinking of bigger but have done some reading and the dmax has a 90 amp alternator which I don’t want to overload.
- add another 400w solar to the roof, with new 8b&s to new 40 amp mppt solar charger. Also remove old solar converter and redirect existing 160 w panels to new mppt.
- add a direct cable with Anderson to battery for outside 200w portable blanket panel for times when I am in the shade
- new 2 x 100ah lithium battery
- disconnect from power and add new low amp 240v charger if occasional top up needed if we have power
- 2000w inverter

Any thoughts or tips very much appreciated. As always, trying to keep the cost down to a minimum. So I will be installing myself, I want to know what is where so I can do any fixes and additions while on the road. I am thinking of renology kit, looks ok and price is decent. Only thought was to put a combined 50amp dcdc solar converter combo in, but i can’t see a way to limit the amperage draw from the alternative. 50 amps for dcdc, 15 or so for the fridge, plus losses, from a 90amp alternator doesn’t seem like much left over!?

A lot of things to consider @macpanda . @Drover has covered most things, but have a good read of the attached to understand how to get the best out of your Lithium battery/ies when charging by vehicle, 240 volt and especially SOLAR. At least then you will know what is happening. Good luck!!

Can I Charge A Lithium Battery With A Lead Acid Charger? | Offroad Living

Wondering if you can charge a LiFePO4 lithium battery with a lead acid charger? Here we discuss the use of lead acid, AGM, and normal chargers for lithium.

offroadliving.com.au

 

[jazzeddie1234]

I have 2 andersons on the towbar - one direct from cranking battery and one from second battery (no relays, just 50amp breakers). I find this more versatile - either can be used for tyre pump, charging either battery with the portable solar, jump starting etc. A 3 way fridge has to use separate switching (eg movement detector) though

I prefer separate mppt controllers for various panels so I can see how they are performing (and some redundancy)

I retained the old jayco pwm controller and ran a solar input anderson to the underside so I can plug in the portable panel without worrying about a controller on the panel getting wet

If you go lithiums (highly recommended) then you will need to review the aux input on the setec if you have one. This comes from the 12 pin and is unregulated so the lithiums may overload the 20 amp ish fuse. Either unplug and use your 20amp dc dc via some other path, or in my case, use a small 6 amp dc dc on the aux input to limit current.

I use the setec on the lithiums and it is fine - it is just limited in current and maybe 80% state of charge. The mppts do the top up usually

 

[Drover]

Additionally on your fridge run, terminate the cable with an anderson the one on the fridge side acts as cable size step down from your 6 or 8 B&S to the smaller fridge cable without having to trim ....

I have a run direct from battery to side of van, it has a maxi fuse inline and can be used as a feed from portables or for a compressor orother external 12v load, I only use grey andersons as then I don't have to replicate things.................. My system is made so if one bit fails it doesn't mean the show is all over like modern BMS systems today....

 

[macpanda]

Thanks all - great advice. I think i have a few more things to look into. @jazzeddie1234 - where did you get your 6 amp DCDC charger from? I can see some converters at this amperage, but not chargers? Closest i can see for this application is the renology 20amp, which has the option to downrate the charge to 10amps via external switch.

 

[Boots in Action]

Thanks all - great advice. I think i have a few more things to look into. @jazzeddie1234 - where did you get your 6 amp DCDC charger from? I can see some converters at this amperage, but not chargers? Closest i can see for this application is the renology 20amp, which has the option to downrate the charge to 10amps via external switch.

Hi @macpanda , the mini DC to DC step up/step down unit is available on Ebay as per the attached link.

LTC3780 10A DC 5V-32V to 1V-30V Auto Step Up Down Regulator Charging Module | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for LTC3780 10A DC 5V-32V to 1V-30V Auto Step Up Down Regulator Charging Module at the best online prices at eBay!

www.ebay.com.au

It is really an adjustable unit that is capable of altering the DC input voltage from anywhere between 5 and 35 volts and outputting any DC voltage between 5 and 30 volts continuously with a max amperage of around 5 to 6 amps. Within these limits, it can be very useful. You can also look up operation of LTC3780 to get more technical details too. I purchased this item but have yet to install it in the Acc input line of the Setec. Set up is a little tricky as there are 3 potentiometers to get the input voltage set to approx 15 volts, and the output to around 14.0 volts and limit the output to around 6 amps. There is also an adjustment for under-voltage cutout. Although the advertising states that 130 watts is max, at that level, additional heat-sinking will be required. 6 amps at 14.7 volts comes to just under 90 watts and is probably the best you can do. @jazzeddie1234 and I exchanged a few posts about this a while back and the whole idea was to up the input voltage from tug so that the van battery could get some usable voltage/current to be charged whilst on the move, even if it is only a small amount. If you have lithium batteries, you will have to set the output voltage to suit, while the unit limits the charging amperage to a low level. @jazzeddie1234 will probably give you more info. Good luck!!!

This link may explain things better???

LTC3780 Step Up Automatic Lifting Pressure Constant Voltage 130W | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for LTC3780 Step Up Automatic Lifting Pressure Constant Voltage 130W at the best online prices at eBay!

www.ebay.com.au

 

[Drover]

Thanks all - great advice. I think i have a few more things to look into. @jazzeddie1234 - where did you get your 6 amp DCDC charger from? I can see some converters at this amperage, but not chargers? Closest i can see for this application is the renology 20amp, which has the option to downrate the charge to 10amps via external switch.

Why ???? If setting up for off grid camping what use is a DC-DC Charger.

 

[Boots in Action]

Why ???? If setting up for off grid camping what use is a DC-DC Charger.

Only if you want to get some charge into van battery/ies whilst on the move. Which is what @jazzeddie1234 has done and is "suggesting" for @macpanda to have a "controlled" current from tug alternator to Lithium batteries in van. As you are aware, the Setec is not really suitable for charging van battery/ies owing to possible low charging voltages from tug (smart" alternators), losses in connecting line and the 0.7 volt loss caused by in line power diode. With the mini DC to DC unit, you can have any voltage from alternator 12 to 16 ( or higher) volts as input and cranked up/down to a steady 14.7 volt output at a current of around 6 amps which covers any losses in wiring and power diode so you get some juice that is high enough to actually charge van battery. Not for all persons, but certainly doable as @jazzeddie1234 has done.
In fact, as your own portable computer or I-pad needs 21 volts to charge up its batteries, this unit could do the same job just as well from 12 volt van batteries as hooking up your 240 volt inverter and a lot less juice needed. A 3 amp output at 21 volts?? is well within the limits of this little DC to DC unit.

 

[macpanda]

Why ???? If setting up for off grid camping what use is a DC-DC Charger.

Only reason i am thinking a DC charger is planning for multiple low cloud / wet weather / unavoidable shady days in a row (which we seem to have a lot of this year!). I am thinking that 200ah will give us a few days (at least) if we get only small amounts of solar recharge each day. But at least when we are on the move (e.g., every 4 or 5 days) we will get a chance to top everything up again with the combination of solar and dc charger, even if we are only driving 4 or 5 hours and have cloud cover. We wont use a lot of power day to day but i suspect if we get patches of bad weather the kids are going to want to punch out a bit of extra TV/ipad/home schooling time, so i am trying to be prepared without relying on powered sites!

 

[Drover]

Only reason i am thinking a DC charger is planning for multiple low cloud / wet weather / unavoidable shady days in a row (which we seem to have a lot of this year!). I am thinking that 200ah will give us a few days (at least) if we get only small amounts of solar recharge each day. But at least when we are on the move (e.g., every 4 or 5 days) we will get a chance to top everything up again with the combination of solar and dc charger, even if we are only driving 4 or 5 hours and have cloud cover. We wont use a lot of power day to day but i suspect if we get patches of bad weather the kids are going to want to punch out a bit of extra TV/ipad/home schooling time, so i am trying to be prepared without relying on powered sites!

Have rarely encountered the problem but then I carry a genny but can't think of a time it has been pulled out for charging, my panels with this MPPT unit usually drag enough out even when raining to get a charge each day, it has surprised me actually and I only have 100amp usable, probably less as the batteries are getting on .................... the main thing is running the engine to charge up batteries is not a great idea, they need to be at more than idle revs, about 1,000rpm this will help stop clagging up the thing and depending on the alternator provide better power, it can be a few hours of running as well, if I had a tug with a DPF fitted it would be last thing I would be doing, I would break camp if that much in need, a sooty DPF is the last thing you need off grid.

I can see your point though, we have a genny mainly for the washing machine, sometimes the pogo stick in bucket doesn't cut it and I do as I'm told...... actually saved the day once when tug battery croaked it, I could get enough charge to start so I could run to town for a new battery, paid for itself then and there i thought................ If I was going to get one I would fit it in the tug for an aux battery and charging the van would be an extra benefit ..

 

[jazzeddie1234]

I agree the use of a dc dc from the tug is only useful when the tug is running and even a 20amp dc dc will take ages to recharge 200 amp hours so adequate solar is the key.

In my case I have a non-standard setup (as you would expect) where the aux in to the setec (pin 2 on the 12 pin?) is wired to the tug second battery - not the cranking battery - so any excess from the solar panel on the tug can charge the van if I leave the 12 pin plugged in

On cloudy days (and when using the microwave or electric frypan), I plug the generator in and the setec does a fair job of pumping amps into the batteries. My next mod is to install this https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/373410983953?var=642429978347 (an industrial 230v-12v 30amp power supply) as a more grunty charger when I'm in a hurry. Only because my 2 lithiums can take up to 50amps charge each for 100amps total, the need for a top up is very rare, and this power supply is very cheap ($30) compared to normal battery chargers.

 

[Drover]

Many assume because its cloudy your solar will shut down, while cheapy PWMs shut down, good quality (not high price) MPPT regs will still be charging, well mine does and in fact once when I thought I would have to plug the LRPS in when we got back to van one rainy day it had juiced the batteries up nicely...... something I wouldn't like to rely on though.................................... I have an inkling might be testing it out a bit this coming sojourn, weather reports are a bit iffy, extra genny fuel and the long handled shovel may be needed and while I hate gennies used without some thought, I much prefer to use one than running my tug engine and when I do everything gets plugged in and charged up .... for off gridding I do find they are handy to have, not used often but invaluable in quite a few scenarios..... mine has also got a good bit of use keeping the lights on at home probably more than out bush due to floods and fires.

I have modded my Jeep so that I can plug my portable panel into it and charge the starting battery if need be, AGM battery under the seat so not a position to be stuffing around with alligator clamps, just plug into an anderson plug.

I think I would put that power supply in a fire proof box just in case @jazzeddie1234 ,

 

[Hitting the road]

In the past life with the camper trailer, i had a freezer and a fridge running 24/7 off 12v, ran a coffee machine off the inverter at least each morning, as well as charged phones, lighting, and ran the water pump etc.
Had 2 x 140amp AGMs with 400w portable solar going through an MPPT regulator. We'd normally stay 5 nights somewhere always off grid and never ever had to fire up the generator.
The same set up i have now in the Jayco basically, but as it has a puny 160w panel on the roof I wired an external anderson plug to accept external panels along with a new 40amp MPPT to pick up the slack when and if I ever run low in power...not all that likely though as the fridge will run on gas off grid, leaving just maybe the TV or radio, lights and the water pump...even with overcast days.

I do have a 30 amp DCDC Charger in the tug which charges the auxiliary battery...back when towing the camper I would connect a Y piece to charge the aux battery in the tug which ran a fridge, and also run a cord from the Y piece to the camper trailer to keep the battery charged up in that as it had the freezer on board...worked a treat
I still carry a fridge in the tug while towing the van, the aux battery being charged continually by the on board DCDC Charger.

Now I don't connect the tug to the van at all to power up the batteries on the move, (only to run the fridge), as the solar panel would be drippng charge in to the battery bank while on the trot...seems all good so far.

I have wired a basic PWM controller to the aux battery box where I can plug an external solar panel in to if I am parked up and need to keep the aux battery charged while running the fridge...

 

[poor but proud]

So I’ve spent the last week (or three) researching me new 12v set up for 18.57-2(2010). We are heading (wife and 2 kids) off for 7 month and will be aiming for mostly off grid camping. Looking for any thoughts or suggestions before I start spending some money! This is what I am thinking:

- separated 6b&s with ignition isolators for the dmax with separate Anderson plugs. One for the fridge (red) and the other for Dcdc charger
- convert existing 8b&s cable for the fridge tlin van (from current 12 pin to red Anderson)
- run new 6b&s in van to new 20A dcdc charger. Was thinking of bigger but have done some reading and the dmax has a 90 amp alternator which I don’t want to overload.
- add another 400w solar to the roof, with new 8b&s to new 40 amp mppt solar charger. Also remove old solar converter and redirect existing 160 w panels to new mppt.
- add a direct cable with Anderson to battery for outside 200w portable blanket panel for times when I am in the shade
- new 2 x 100ah lithium battery
- disconnect from power and add new low amp 240v charger if occasional top up needed if we have power
- 2000w inverter

Any thoughts or tips very much appreciated. As always, trying to keep the cost down to a minimum. So I will be installing myself, I want to know what is where so I can do any fixes and additions while on the road. I am thinking of renology kit, looks ok and price is decent. Only thought was to put a combined 50amp dcdc solar converter combo in, but i can’t see a way to limit the amperage draw from the alternative. 50 amps for dcdc, 15 or so for the fridge, plus losses, from a 90amp alternator doesn’t seem like much left over!?

where have the good old days gone? who else remembers just cooking on a fire , drinking out of a creek, no fridge and going off grid for a couple of weeks, i remember thinking we were getting modern when we got our first gas stove and gas light. now you almost have to have a degree with masters to even consider going on a caravan trip. cowboy bacon, damper makings, tea leaves, corned beef, bottle of OP rum shopping done, lets go

 

[Drover]

3 days at most to eat all the fresh, bacon, steaks etc then it was onto the rice a riso and canned stuff, still hate powdered milk, supplemented by the odd bunny or fish, kero for the lantern and always hoped for some coals in the fire by morning so you didn't have to start from scratch, by the end of the camp the tucker boxes would be near empty...... and Off Grid meant, well I dunno it was normal, maybe you missed the cattle grid or something ?????
When I went camping as a kid in the 60's lots of places didn't have power, it was tank water and chip heaters ............. the phone was at the Post Office and only be used during certain hours as the operator might be driving the school bus or doing the washing or milking ..... in fact mates in QLD have told me it was like that for them into the late 70's .............. while I can smile at the old days of camping I'm quite happy to embrace the new, to a degree in my van, its very functional for a pair of oldies...... but laugh at some of the set ups some have for off grid, not much needed to knock them out so they have to run to town.....

 

[poor but proud]

3 days at most to eat all the fresh, bacon, steaks etc then it was onto the rice a riso and canned stuff, still hate powdered milk, supplemented by the odd bunny or fish, kero for the lantern and always hoped for some coals in the fire by morning so you didn't have to start from scratch, by the end of the camp the tucker boxes would be near empty...... and Off Grid meant, well I dunno it was normal, maybe you missed the cattle grid or something ?????
When I went camping as a kid in the 60's lots of places didn't have power, it was tank water and chip heaters ............. the phone was at the Post Office and only be used during certain hours as the operator might be driving the school bus or doing the washing or milking ..... in fact mates in QLD have told me it was like that for them into the late 70's .............. while I can smile at the old days of camping I'm quite happy to embrace the new, to a degree in my van, its very functional for a pair of oldies...... but laugh at some of the set ups some have for off grid, not much needed to knock them out so they have to run to town.....

Ahhh the mention of old telephones brings back the past ! Have you ever lived on a property with a party line? Maybe 10 properties on a single line your call was put through with a set of specific rings , yours maybe would be three long rings and two short etc.but anyone who picked up could hear your conversations, that’s why you went to town to talk to your bank manager

 

[macpanda]

where have the good old days gone? who else remembers just cooking on a fire , drinking out of a creek, no fridge and going off grid for a couple of weeks, i remember thinking we were getting modern when we got our first gas stove and gas light. now you almost have to have a degree with masters to even consider going on a caravan trip. cowboy bacon, damper makings, tea leaves, corned beef, bottle of OP rum shopping done, lets go

OP Rum - that brings back some memories, and also memories of nights that i have no memory of!

 

[Boots in Action]

Ahhh the mention of old telephones brings back the past ! Have you ever lived on a property with a party line? Maybe 10 properties on a single line your call was put through with a set of specific rings , yours maybe would be three long rings and two short etc.but anyone who picked up could hear your conversations, that’s why you went to town to talk to your bank manager

Yeah, all that talk about "possums" on the party line was not a referral to the furry marsupials types, but to all the homo erectus animals listening in to your conversation when the call was not for them.