Electrical I have power to inverter but not to the battery on off switch in jayco expanda18.57-6

Chaser

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I have power to inverter but not to the battery on off switch in 2013 Jayco expanda18.57-6. So the battery which is new has power, and due to covid has been sitting for a while and the other half has been using as an office!

I have power to the inverter which is the standard one Jayco installed, all the fuses are ok but I have no power to the battery on off switch, or at the terminal where the leads come from on the inverter.

Is there anything else I can try or do you all think it time for a new inverter?

Cheers

Chaser
 

Boots in Action

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I have power to inverter but not to the battery on off switch in 2013 Jayco expanda18.57-6. So the battery which is new has power, and due to covid has been sitting for a while and the other half has been using as an office!

I have power to the inverter which is the standard one Jayco installed, all the fuses are ok but I have no power to the battery on off switch, or at the terminal where the leads come from on the inverter.

Is there anything else I can try or do you all think it time for a new inverter?

Cheers

Chaser
Hi @Chaser and welcome to the forum. You will get plenty of responses to your problem. But my first thought is that there is insufficient power (guts) in your battery. If the fuse between the battery and the on/off switch is okay, then it is unlikely to be a problem with the inverter. Inverters require a lot of power (amperes) and while the battery may be new, the fact that there has been a long period of low current draw has probably slowly discharged the battery. It may still work on low power requirements - lights, instruments and water pump maybe, but when asked to really provide current, the battery is unable to meet the current demand. To give you some rough idea of the current needed, have a look at the 240 volt rating for the appliance you want to use in watts. Then delete the last zero and you get the approx draw in amperes at 12 volts. eg. appliance rated at 1200 watts at 240 volts would require approx 120 amperes at 12 volts to operate.
Suggest you FULLY charge your battery for at least 48 hours with a smart charger rather than the Setec as that will be much faster and do a better job. Hope this helps, but their could be other problems too.
 

Drover

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First off the invertor should be a direct connection to the battery no deviation other than a dedicated circuit breaker, the van 12v circuit should run from battery to some sort of magic box with fuses...

To assist and since its a 2013 rig, what power distribution system is fitted ? some pics of your battery connections with description would help also.

My initial thought is you have a fancy Power Distribution Sytem and what you are seeing is a flat battery, battery drops below a certain voltage and the system will isolate it till you charge battery up... You will have to remove battery or connect it to a charger, once it is charged your vans system will start working again......... once the van system shuts off due to low voltage it won't work, no charging, no nothing........... With no life at the invertor output battery is sounding like the culprit.

When your van is parked up you should always plug it in to power, it will keep your battery trickle charged and happy or if its outside your solar will do the same, running an invertor when not able to charge battery daily is not wise, they should be used for short periods, if 240 needed for long periods use mains or get a genny... most items are 12v capable nowadays anyway with chargers, computers/TV's actually runnning under 20v DC anyway.
 
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Johnanbev

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I have power to inverter but not to the battery on off switch in 2013 Jayco expanda18.57-6. So the battery which is new has power, and due to covid has been sitting for a while and the other half has been using as an office!

I have power to the inverter which is the standard one Jayco installed, all the fuses are ok but I have no power to the battery on off switch, or at the terminal where the leads come from on the inverter.

Is there anything else I can try or do you all think it time for a new inverter?

Cheers

Chaser
Hi @Chaser, just to be sure about what is happening, I don't believe Jayco installed an inverter in vans in 2013, maybe you are confusing the converter with an inverter.
The Setec is a converter, converting AC tto DC. an inverter converts DC to AC.
If you can be more descriptive I am sure the brains trust will give advice to fix the problem.
 

Chaser

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Hi @Chaser, just to be sure about what is happening, I don't believe Jayco installed an inverter in vans in 2013, maybe you are confusing the converter with an inverter.
The Setec is a converter, converting AC tto DC. an inverter converts DC to AC.
If you can be more descriptive I am sure the brains trust will give advice to fix the problem.
Hi johnanbev,

Sorry you're quite right wrong use of termanology! its the Setec ST35-III which is the power box or convertor as I do not need to run anything at 240v from my battery and never intend to. So the box is not converting the battery power back through the power box to run the 12v stuff in the van which is basiclly everything. I think i'm looking at a new convertor as they do not seem to make the setec anymore, but if anyone know anything different would love to know if I have missed something.

Cheers
Chaser
 

mikerezny

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Hi,
first off: do you have the Setec series III manual? if not, it is easily found online and has been attached on numerous posts in this forum.

Second: what is the battery voltage, measured at the terminals?
If you read the manual, you will find that the Setec has a low voltage cutout that will disconnect the battery if the voltage is to low. All, explained in the manual. This is activated if the battery voltage falls below 10V.

Third: Again, in the manual, the battery switch is a set of contacts that go into the Setec series III to control connecting the battery to the load and to enable the battery to be charged. It does not directly switch the battery in and out of circuit.

With the battery switch in the OFF position and the Setec connected to 240V, the Setec will normally happily suppl 13.8CV to power your van lights, stove ignition, etc.

The Series III has three indicator lights on the front panel. The green LED is lit when there is 240V input to the Setec. The yellow is lit when a battery with sufficient voltage is connected and the battery switch is in the ON position, The third LED is red and, if lit, indicates a fault condition.
One of the fuses in the panel behind the front cover is a battery fuse. All other fuses distribute 12V to various loads in the van.

This is all explained in the Setec manual.

I hope this gives you sufficient information to begin the process of diagnosing the problem you are having.

take care
Mike
 
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Boots in Action

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Hi johnanbev,

Sorry you're quite right wrong use of termanology! its the Setec ST35-III which is the power box or convertor as I do not need to run anything at 240v from my battery and never intend to. So the box is not converting the battery power back through the power box to run the 12v stuff in the van which is basiclly everything. I think i'm looking at a new convertor as they do not seem to make the setec anymore, but if anyone know anything different would love to know if I have missed something.

Cheers
Chaser
Yes @Chaser , the Setec is a battery management system (BMS) and also a power distribution system able to distribute power of up to 35 amps at 12 volts to several circuits from a fully charged battery. When connected to 240 volt AC power, it will not only transform the alternating current to DC power at the correct voltage to not only keep battery (if fitted) fully charged, but can provide continuous 13.65 volts to power all your 12 volt accessories. Subject of course to fuse limitations and battery voltages. All set out in the Setec manual as @mikerezny stated. If in doubt, just ask on the forum, as many before you have , if not confident.
 

Drover

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I said that...lol,lol,lol........................ Just a thought @Chaser have a look at the connections on your battery switch, my old 14.44 went for ages with the cables just pushed firmly in the switch, they missed the wires when they tightened the screws.
 

Chaser

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Hi,
first off: do you have the Setec series III manual? if not, it is easily found online and has been attached on numerous posts in this forum.

Second: what is the battery voltage, measured at the terminals?
If you read the manual, you will find that the Setec has a low voltage cutout that will disconnect the battery if the voltage is to low. All, explained in the manual. This is activated if the battery voltage falls below 10V.

Third: Again, in the manual, the battery switch is a set of contacts that go into the Setec series III to control connecting the battery to the load and to enable the battery to be charged. It does not directly switch the battery in and out of circuit.

With the battery switch in the OFF position and the Setec connected to 240V, the Setec will normally happily suppl 13.8CV to power your van lights, stove ignition, etc.

The Series III has three indicator lights on the front panel. The green LED is lit when there is 240V input to the Setec. The yellow is lit when a battery with sufficient voltage is connected and the battery switch is in the ON position, The third LED is red and, if lit, indicates a fault condition.
One of the fuses in the panel behind the front cover is a battery fuse. All other fuses distribute 12V to various loads in the van.

This is all explained in the Setec manual.

I hope this gives you sufficient information to begin the process of diagnosing the problem you are having.

take care
Mike
Hi Mike,
Thanks for that yes i have the manual but was little help, the battery is currently at 12.7V so ok, and as for the warning lights none of them are on battery switch on or off! Only the 240v supply light comes on when connected.
Went for a pink slip the other day and asked them to have a look but they could not find the problem or get it to work, so new one of some sort is needed. Do any of you have any suggestions?
@Drover yes took the cable out all looked good and screwed them back in. @Boots in Action I will have another look at the manual and the unit, in fact I never checked if the unit was charging the battery or not! I only have a couple of weeks to get this sorted before Christmas break as we are allowed out again now!!
Cheers
Chaser
 

Chaser

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Ok so the mains are not charging the battery, but are able to run the 12v appliances in the van like lights etc.
 

Drover

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Had a read of the OP again, From what your saying battery has power but no battery power at battery terminal on Setek, check the spade terminal is a good connection , remove the battery lead from battery and Setek and check continuity, if none with switch made or on either side of switch chuck the cable in question and don't forget the earth as well... spade terminals may look good but the wire has been chopped even thought he pplastic looks okay...been there...

On some here is an inline fuse on the battery cable as well.. Everything is pointing to the battery connection.
 

Chaser

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Had a read of the OP again, From what your saying battery has power but no battery power at battery terminal on Setek, check the spade terminal is a good connection , remove the battery lead from battery and Setek and check continuity, if none with switch made or on either side of switch chuck the cable in question and don't forget the earth as well... spade terminals may look good but the wire has been chopped even thought he pplastic looks okay...been there...

On some here is an inline fuse on the battery cable as well.. Everything is pointing to the battery connection.
Hi @Drover

yes same power at the battery terminal on the Setek 12.72V and inline fuse good, so not the cable.

Looking at a new power unit which these days is a projecta PM 100J know anything about these?

Cheers

Chaser
 

Drover

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I'm getting a bit lost here, the Setek with mains disconnected............
1. Battery showing 12.7
2. Battery terminals on Setek showing 12.7 so I assume cable and switch are functioning...............
3. lights all work ??

Plug mains in, the battery line voltage should increase to 13 up to 13.6v something, this will indicate that the Setek is providing charge to the battery, the Setek output to lights etc should rise above 12.7 as well, if this doesn't happen then good chance the Setek is cactus... keep covers on Setek and check voltage remotely.

As for a replacement it would depend on what sort of camping you are into...

Off grid camping with a good controller then solar does it all and a simple multi stage charger is all thats needed, you have charger connected to battery and the 12v lines for lights and stuff from old Setek go to the load on the solar with the solar reg connected to battery, don't even need to be able to charge from tug . (welll I don't)

For park camping I suppose it depends how handy you are and how full the wallet is, some of the units a full of gimmicks you just need to wade through them, something KiSS where you just plug in the wires and its sorted so when you get to camp plug in the mains and thats it, a green light for good a red for bad is really all thats needed, the more gimmicks the bigger the price of course and if charging from the tug often a Dc-DC charger in tug to provide the van juice is the best idea................
Some one will pipe up with the bestest Projecta, Red Arc, BM Pro units .................. all I know is I'm not fond of the all in one jobs.
 
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Boots in Action

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Ok so the mains are not charging the battery, but are able to run the 12v appliances in the van like lights etc.
Hi @Chaser again, you are certainly having a tough time, but you are not done yet! You confirmed that you have 12 volt power to run your lights etc. However, that proves nothing as it could be just your battery providing all the power. Battery voltage will show a drop if this is so. To check if your Setec is providing ANY 12 volt power on its own, the battery must NOT be in the circuit, so disconnect battery and then try the 240 volt power and see if you have 12 volt power for lights. The Setec will provide 13.65 volts direct to your lights and other 12 volt devices even without a battery. Noted that you said that Setec is NOT charging battery. Have you checked for any sort of voltage increase in battery when connected to 240 volt power??? There should be a gradual increase from your 12.75 volts (what you have checked) to around 14.0 volts if the battery has been discharged for a short time - say an hour with one or two internal lights on. You must have 240 volt power to Setec as the Mains (green light) is illuminated. Page 2 of the Setec manual is the important one to understand fully.

If you can confirm that you have 12 volt power available from your battery and also direct from the Setec with battery disconnected and NOT in circuit, then it would appear that the 12 volt output from the Setec is non op, but okay to run lights without a battery?? These are on the same output line!! The only thing left is that the Setec still thinks that the battery is below voltage cutout (LVD around 10.00 volts) and has not initiated a higher charging rate and is still charging around only 0. 8 amps. But even that low rate will show an increase in voltage but may take several hours to bring it up to (what it thinks!) is above 11.5 - 11.70 volts and register that voltage, so higher charging can start. I think that @Drover is correct in saying that there seems to be a problem with a lead or so and not the Setec as it seems to be operating as it should except that the battery light (orange on Setec) is not illuminating. We are all here to help and may save you a lot of unnecessary expense. Nothing worse that putting in a new unit only to find that the same problem still haunts you!!!!
 

Chaser

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Ok, @Drover @Boots in Action I have 12.72v at the battery terminals, I have 12.72v at the terminal from the battery input on the Setec, I have no increase in voltage to the battery when 240v is on but the lights work when the 240v is on but not when it is off so seems not to be working on the battery.

The only light on the front panel is the green 240v main connection light, the battery orange and the fault red do not come on.

The van was connected to mains since NSW locked down as the home boss was using it as her office away from the kids home schooling. About 3-4 plus weeks ago (before I started this chat) all the power went off in the van, but no trip switches had gone off (this she informed me just now was while we had a big thunderstorm). I unplugged it checked the fuses etc and plugged back in and it worked again but since this the battery has not run anything in the van.

So when the kids went back to school and she moved her office back into the house I started looking into it as I could not pull up the seats etc while the home boss was in there.

Sorry if I have been confusing, so basically the battery is not being charged while on 240V and it is not feeding back into the 12v system when not on 240V and we free camp quite a bit so need it to work. I do not need anything that requires 240v power when off grid (I have a 30year old Honda 650v genset inherited from my father in-law) so do not need an inverter just a converter Jayco advised me over the phone to get the Projecta PM100J or PM235J as a replacement so minimum of $430 to replace although RV parts express has it for less just if I can avoid a $400 outlay as you say @Boots in Action to find the same problem haunts me!

Hope that is clearer?

Chaser
 

Boots in Action

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Ok, @Drover @Boots in Action I have 12.72v at the battery terminals, I have 12.72v at the terminal from the battery input on the Setec, I have no increase in voltage to the battery when 240v is on but the lights work when the 240v is on but not when it is off so seems not to be working on the battery.

The only light on the front panel is the green 240v main connection light, the battery orange and the fault red do not come on.

The van was connected to mains since NSW locked down as the home boss was using it as her office away from the kids home schooling. About 3-4 plus weeks ago (before I started this chat) all the power went off in the van, but no trip switches had gone off (this she informed me just now was while we had a big thunderstorm). I unplugged it checked the fuses etc and plugged back in and it worked again but since this the battery has not run anything in the van.

So when the kids went back to school and she moved her office back into the house I started looking into it as I could not pull up the seats etc while the home boss was in there.

Sorry if I have been confusing, so basically the battery is not being charged while on 240V and it is not feeding back into the 12v system when not on 240V and we free camp quite a bit so need it to work. I do not need anything that requires 240v power when off grid (I have a 30year old Honda 650v genset inherited from my father in-law) so do not need an inverter just a converter Jayco advised me over the phone to get the Projecta PM100J or PM235J as a replacement so minimum of $430 to replace although RV parts express has it for less just if I can avoid a $400 outlay as you say @Boots in Action to find the same problem haunts me!

Hope that is clearer?

Chaser
Well at last @Chaser, we are getting somewhere. From what you have just advised, I do believe that the battery is stuffed and the LVD (low voltage dis-connect) has operated. Therefore, you will not get ANY charge into the really flat battery. The voltage you are showing at the battery terminals is provided by the Setec producing some sort of voltage to the lights, (and trying to get some charge into the cactus battery) but not as much as it should. Probably because there is so much resistance (or load) caused by a very low or a short in the battery. Just because it is "new" does not mean it will not fail prematurely , especially under the conditions you have put it under. Your symptoms seem to confirm that battery voltage is NOT available as the Battery light (orange one) is not illuminated indicating 12 volt battery power is not available. Do you have and know how to use a multimeter to check voltage (DC type)??
Here is a possible and probable solution:
1.Ensure ALL switches are OFF (all 12 volt and 240 volt type)
2. Disconnect ALL 240 volt power from van and disconnect power cable to van.
3. Disconnect van battery (undo clamps at battery terminals) and remove suspect battery. You can test it later under load.
4. Insert another 12 volt battery in good condition (car battery from anywhere - yours or a friends??? Does not need to be a proper van battery as this is testing only!!!)
5. Re-connect to replacement battery terminals with clamps in van on correct terminals.
6. Make sure battery switch is ON. Battery light (orange should come on.)
7. Turn on van light/s. and advise result please.
8. If all going well, connect 240 volt power to van and Setec and 240 volt (green light) should come on indicating 240 volt power available.
9. Battery voltage should start to increase as Setec starts charging.

If this is successful, get yourself a good AGM battery 120ah or better. You can still use the test battery if necessary in the interim, but be aware that charging a battery causes gassing and those non sealed or batteries with screwable caps or tops are not recommended for use in confined spaces owing the risk of possible explosion. Good luck!.....Cheers

PS. It this fails and @Drover or @mikerezny don't come up with any other alternatives, then you may get your wish for a new BMS without knowing what fault occurred or still exists!!
 

Drover

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I have 12.72v at the battery terminals, I have 12.72v at the terminal from the battery input on the Setec, I have no increase in voltage to the battery when 240v is on

If the battery is showing 12.72v when connected to Setek with mains power disconnected/off and no 12v for lights working then the battery isn't knackered as 12.7 isn't going to activate the LVD .................................. Actually sounds to me that the Setek is stuffed ............. I would check the battery out but does sound like at 12.7 it was charged up when things went west and has slowly run down but I would test out another battery to see, strange things can happen as at times batteries show good voltage but its all show.... I would throw it on a bench charger anyway.

Holy cow, I just had a look at the price of various units, they are up there and so many gadgets....... I have set up my rig with a stand alone 240v charger, thats all it does is charge the battery but is used rarely, it can be set to run 12v to van but my batteries are charged by solar all the time via my solar controller and even when I do use parks if we plug in to power its for the Fridge, AC, kettle toaster sort of thing I will fire up the battery charger after a few days of really mucky weather....... everything is individually fused and connects to a buss bar , which in turn runs thru a fuse box to run van, solar runs all the time and if I want the charger to do anything I flick a switch, the Epever solar jobby has a screen and a remote, blutooth and wireless displays always seem to cause grief and folk spend so much time fiddling with them, I want to know I just glance at panel , 2 seconds.

Anyway I reckon the Setek has deaded the charging bit.....
 

Boots in Action

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If the battery is showing 12.72v when connected to Setek with mains power disconnected/off and no 12v for lights working then the battery isn't knackered as 12.7 isn't going to activate the LVD .................................. Actually sounds to me that the Setek is stuffed ............. I would check the battery out but does sound like at 12.7 it was charged up when things went west and has slowly run down but I would test out another battery to see, strange things can happen as at times batteries show good voltage but its all show.... I would throw it on a bench charger anyway.

Holy cow, I just had a look at the price of various units, they are up there and so many gadgets....... I have set up my rig with a stand alone 240v charger, thats all it does is charge the battery but is used rarely, it can be set to run 12v to van but my batteries are charged by solar all the time via my solar controller and even when I do use parks if we plug in to power its for the Fridge, AC, kettle toaster sort of thing I will fire up the battery charger after a few days of really mucky weather....... everything is individually fused and connects to a buss bar , which in turn runs thru a fuse box to run van, solar runs all the time and if I want the charger to do anything I flick a switch, the Epever solar jobby has a screen and a remote, blutooth and wireless displays always seem to cause grief and folk spend so much time fiddling with them, I want to know I just glance at panel , 2 seconds.

Anyway I reckon the Setek has deaded the charging bit.....
Hey @Drover, @Chaser reports that there are NO lights or power unless the Setec is connected to 240 volt power. Nothing until 240 volt [power is in the system. Hence, I really think it is a stuffed battery, as there would be zilch voltage without the Setec. 12.7 volts is definitely ABOVE the LVD, but only achieves that with the Setec on and providing power to run lights (and trying to get some power into battery). After all the confusing info, the first paragraph of @Chaser's last post made me put my money on a stuffed battery and not the Setec. We will see if I am right when a different battery is used and the results are in. Your first line indicates that you believe that the 12.7 volts is available on its own and NOT CONNECTED to Setec and 240 volt power, which is NOT what @Chaser reports.
 
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Chaser

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Ok @Boots in Action @Drover I will have a go at pulling out he battery and putting in another one probably from the boat. The battery is new and has not been tested out as lockdown happened so would be annoying but still under guarantee. I will let you all know a bit later hopefully if this rain ever stops to get the battery out of the boat!
 
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Drover

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I have 12.72v at the battery terminals, I have 12.72v at the terminal from the battery input on the Setec, I have no increase in voltage to the battery when 240v is on


Well @Boots in Action Could be, could be I just read that first paragraph to say the battery was supplying 12.7v at battery and at Setek, with mains off and when mains turned on no change to voltage............ so to me the Setek doesn't see or allow the battery to supply power, as a Setek will work happily on mains power supplying 12v without a battery connected and the current battery at 12.7v is way above LVD cut off hence my diagnosis, Setek is cactus or something inside has fell off ..............

Doesn't bother me, not after brownie points, so long as the problem is sorted, online diagnosis is only as good as the info provided and often its a jig saw to sort out.
 
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