generators

[andrewandjodie]

ive got a cummins p2600 generator and i dont no if its ok to run our expanda its got some protecton circuit thing on it but its not pure sinewave like the honda. will it damage anything in the van or the transformer next to the battery box?thanks if anyone can help im thinking the way to do it is make up a cord with 2 male ends to power it ,or do u use it just to plug into a aircon etc .got a amfmcd radio,aircon,fridge lcd tv microwave and the other standard stuff.

 

[chartrock]

Whatever you do, don't have two male ends on a cord. With one end into the generator the other end will have 240V on the bare pins.

I can't advise on the performance of the generator but we do have enough experts to on the forum to give you good advice.

 

[Turtle]

Mate, Chartrock is correct in saying that a lead with two mate ends would result in bare pins and infact I'd go on to say it would be a killer!!! If your electrical capability is limited to the point that it appears, please have an aurthorised person facilitate the generator connection leads.
On the other point of the Generator itself, you should only consider a pure sinewave as the equipment in that you are wanting to power is sensitive. As far as brands are concerned, I was advised by my Jayco Dealer that using anything other that a Kiphor or Honda would void the Jayco warranty.
I hope this helps.

 

[Bank of Dad]

I was advised by my Jayco Dealer that using anything other that a Kiphor or Honda would void the Jayco warranty.
I hope this helps.

Certainly helps Jayco dealers as they only sell Kipor and Honda!

Please specifically note that no individual (including any
dealer, agent or representative of Jayco) is authorised to make
any representation or warranty concerning Jayco or its
products, except to refer the purchaser to this twelve month
warranty.

I can't see anything in the Jayco Owners Handbook that supports that statement, in fact the quote above says they can't make such statements.

 

[andrewandjodie]

im an idiot

not sure what i was thinking when i said 2 male ends on the leads as it just needs a normal male/female 15amp cord.i have a large stick in the shed which i will give myself a good bashing with shortly and that sort of question can be blamed on cheap red wine. is there any product that you can put between the gennie to give a safe clean voltage or is the only option pure sine wave i would have thought the aircon and lights would b ok but not sure about the transformer that converts the power to 12volts. How does that trans work as explained to me it converts power to 12v or does this apply only to the 12v outlets and the 240v outlets bypass the transformer box? thanks for your replies now off to the shed this will take awhile

 

[chartrock]

Don't be too hard on yourself, mate, Sometimes I feel I just open my mouth to change feet. :tape:

 

[Turtle]

I've had a look around and can't find anything to substatiate my dealers advice on generators either although I did come across a presentation on the Setec site that contains a technical spec on suitable generators.
View attachment Setecpresentation-1.pdf

 

[ElectricGuru]

andrewandjodie

Good that you have decided against the suicide lead as we call it in the industry. Don’t beat yourself too hard with the stick, it wastes too much energy. To answer the first question, you will probably have enough capacity with the generator to run the microwave and aircon but not at once. It is not the running load that is the issue but when appliances start they drag in huge amounts of current, sometimes stalling the generator. As long as your are keeping the load down, it should be ok. If you are needing the generator, have the fridge on gas.

I found a data sheet for the generator that you have and you might have some other issues than power. The unit is heavy at 46 kgs and anyone that camps near you is going to not be too happy at 68 dB(A) at 7 metres. That is very loud and remote camping might be out due to some not allowing noisy generators. Also, this generator has limited output voltage control that may damage sensitive devices by pushing up the voltage too high. P2600_Specs_with_GCGen_address.pdf These units are mainly for trades and remote work where the electric appliances can take a bit of thrashing. The circuit protection thing is a simple circuit breaker, no special protection there.

The main advantages of a Honda/Yamaha/Kipor inverter type is not only the clean power but also the weight and noise reduction. (Down around the 20 kgs and 53 dB mark respectively for a 2 kW unit). Also inverter type generators have speed control for required power whereas other types must go flat out at either 1500/3000rpm (depending on no of generator poles) constantly so you are using more fuel than required.

Secondly other questions about clean power and power converters. Yes there are devices that can clean up power but for that size you would be looking at several hundred dollars plus installation costs. Something like this is what you would need drm95-hardwired-20amp.

Lastly, each van has a separate 240 Vac and 12 Vdc supply system. The 12 Vdc system is powered from the Setec power supply that converts the 240 Vac to 12 Vdc and then is distributed to the 12 Vdc lights and other circuits (radio/12 V outlet/rangehood). The power supply could probably handle the dirty power but for longevity and warranty purposes, a clean sources is always better.

Keep us posted on what you are going to do. Cheers!

 

[andrewandjodie]

broken stick

thanks for your reply that info is gold. I got that gennie at a good price so ill get a pure one later, probably get a deep cycle battery at the caravan and camping show at the end of the month.Score =stick 1, Andrew 0 thanks

 

[Bank of Dad]

Electric Guru - do the Honda/Kipor control the frequency output as well as voltage output as opposed to just frequency on the cheaper gennies? Is that the difference?

 

[ElectricGuru]

Electric Guru - do the Honda/Kipor control the frequency output as well as voltage output as opposed to just frequency on the cheaper gennies? Is that the difference?

Thanks Bank of Dad for the question. All generators have frequency and voltage control that is managed by a Governor or AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator).

On standard generators, the frequency is controlled directly from the speed and the voltage is controlled by modulating the wound rotor dc voltage. So increase the speed, increase the frequency. Increase the rotor voltage, increase the output voltage. This is where standard generators have issues where the voltage control fails and the output voltage maxes out around the 270-280V mark. Sensitive equipment will start to fail at about 250-260V.

On the majority of inverter type generators, the generator itself is DC. Then there is an inverter that rectifies the voltage from DC to AC by high frequency switching (PWM - Pulse Width Modulation) of the output to produce the 50 Hz frequency that we need. The output frequency and voltage are managed by a microprocessor controller that then feeds back into the generator governor to increase the speed based on load, not frequency. The inverter also has the advantage of being able to output a very close to a pure sine wave with lower waveform distortion than normal mains supply or standard generators, hence better for sensitive equipment.

Yes there is an increase in cost with the inverter type but the advantages are certainly there, especially for the caravanning masses like us. But like anything, you get what you pay for.

Cheers. Gil

 

[chartrock]

Very informative posts, thanks Gil. :first:

 

[mfexpanda]

Weve got a yamaha no probs works well when free camping no electrical issues run the aircon/ heater well

 

[simond]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/280742954922?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Don't know if this is how you post a link but seen these on E Bay. don't look to bad for the money.
Any thoughts on these from someone in the know??

 

[Capt. Gadget]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/280742954922?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Don't know if this is how you post a link but seen these on E Bay. don't look to bad for the money.
Any thoughts on these from someone in the know??

I have just bought one of these but am still waiting for it to arrive I'll let you know what it's like when I get it
http://www.expandasdownunder.com/sh...ries-a-Geni-amp-what-Type?highlight=generator

Have a look here for a recent discussion on Generators

 

[gavin.davis59]

I bought a similar 3.2 kva generator off ebay before Xmas for $429 delivered.After initial priming it has started first go everytime.I have run the fridge & Aircon. with it,but it is at its limit.A 4.4 would have been ideal but for charging the batteries etc. plus emergency power at home I thought it good value.

 

[ElectricGuru]

Very informative posts, thanks Gil. :first:

Cheers chartrock.

mfexpanda, I also have a Yamaha EF2400iS that I use for home as a backup (due to some frequent power supply issues) and that has no problems doing the home with the appliances/lights/TVs. I was thinking about buying a 1 kW Honda or Yamaha inverter generator for planned free camping later this year. For the money, could buy a 2 kW for a small increase. What unit do you have?

Don't know if this is how you post a link but seen these on E Bay. don't look to bad for the money.
Any thoughts on these from someone in the know??

As mentioned, you get what you pay for. Dont forget that a sound level increase of 10 dBA means that it is twice as loud.

Also, make sure you check who the service agent is. A lot of local agents wont touch them.

Let us know how it goes...

PS Just wanted to add to the previous post that there are other types of inverter generators that their alternators produce 3 phase voltage that is converted to DC and then back to the 50 Hz AC for the output.

 

[straydingo]

Also, make sure you check who the service agent is. A lot of local agents wont touch them.

I agree with EG above.

When getting the chainsaw serviced I had a chat with the 'mechanic' (boy, he could talk). We talked about "Bunnings only" or "Mitre 10 only" or imported models of saws, mowers and gens, and the industry generally can't work on the cheaper import models (Can't not Won't). He had experienced failures of a few, tried to work on them and parts simply were not available - even brands known in Australia, but non-Aus market models imported. The spare parts were similar but slightly different and they couldn't get them. Even the likes of Bunnings would simply replace them outright as soon as there was any failure, cos it was a lot cheaper to do so - they get them in at $100 each, sell for $499, replace after 9 months and still come out ahead.....

(ps....Bunnings have done the same thing with Weber kettle bbqs. Weber won't touch them http://www.weberbbq.com.au/ProductAssets/PDFs/BunningsWeberKettlesNotice.pdf)

 

[Capt. Gadget]

I have just bought one of these but am still waiting for it to arrive I'll let you know what it's like when I get it
http://www.expandasdownunder.com/sh...ries-a-Geni-amp-what-Type?highlight=generator

Have a look here for a recent discussion on Generators

My Inverter arrived Yesterday and I am very impressed ran it in the shed for an hour or so and no probs at all Started on the second pull of the cord tried a variety of my tools up to a 2000 watt 9" angle grinder and a small compressor. It came with a Battery to power the Key Start and Remote start seems to have a reasonable range ! Very surprised on how quiet it is, it says 59dB in the Specs but on eco mode it's not much louder than my Honda 10eui maybe the 59dB is when its running flat out with the eco off?

 

[Burnsy]

A question regarding generators....we were unpowered over the long weekend and needed to run the honda to top up batteries (not good solar weather)...not to mention my wife's hair straightener and hair dryer! Should you use the ground spike on generators? I don't seem to see many using them.