Inverter install

A good sized Inverter I would go direct from battery, mainly because you want the shortest run possible with the biggest cable, a high amperage Buss Bar with at least 4 B&S cable from battery would be okay but be clunky ............
Extending the 12v cable is not a good idea unless you increase its size, shorter the better actually, the inverter does need to have air flow around it as well and the ability to turn it Off easily when not in use as they will draw power from battery if turned on without anything plugged in ...

Agree with Drover...that's how I have wired inverters in the past...I used good battery cable straight to the inverter with shortest run possible...of course if you have a shunt fitted as I have then to the negative of the shunt...

Mine has as short a run as possible with a good ANL fuse, fat lugs and bolts. The potential weak point is the shunt in the negative return as it has to also terminate all the other caravan loads. I had several goes at solid connections that didn't generate heat....a handy hint is to run the inverter at full load and touch everything in the run, and return, for heat (except the shunt itself which will probably get hot)

Just redid my batteries into a box to comply as added a second battery . Using a 2600w inverter I went to batteries to Dual ANL fuse , one side direct to inverter in 95mm2 and the other side to vans fuses for everything else. this also the incoming charge cable.

ideally short as possible , least joints and fused. theres a strong argument for having an isolator as well though it wasn’t practical for my application and I had a few joints due to the batteries in box (stupid idea) and the dual shunts (JHub and Victron ) so far has worked well

garfield28 said:

Thanks for the replies

I think maybe the best way I should go then is have my inverter connected direct to the battery and run the rest of my items onto the busbar so I don't have too many connections stacked up on the battery terminal, that sound correct

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That would be the best way to go, I always wire up a buss bar to connect the normal van stuff off even the solar, high draw connections will be direct off battery, no need for a xmas tree of wiring off battery, from my battery there is a feed to the buss bar and a feed to an external anderson as my compressor tries to suck the battery out of its compartment when it runs, my 500w Inverter is happy off the buss bar it only charges a laptop and batteries so not a biggy otherwise it also would be hanging off the battery..

Remember the new standards/ regs around wiring as well. Major modifications require compliance. I don’t agree with all in the standards but there they’re just the same . Some of the things are easier to follow. Fuse within 200mm of battery . max number of connections to a battery. The hardest is enclosing and venting your batteries .

...The hardest is enclosing and venting your batteries .

Gotta agree...I replaced the AGM's I had in my Jayco in April 2023 before heading off on the Lap, a good 6 months before the new regs were enforced. (wasn't aware of what the new regs required anyhow)
The batteries are currently under the Dinette area where the space between the internal wheel arch and the inside kick panel is barely battery width...then there is the BMS and battery charger and of course a storage drawer in the same space. The cables run out both ends of the space to various points. On top are lift out carpeted ply panels to access the area which are not "screwed" down.
I'd like to modify the thing to be compliant anyway, but how? It is nigh on impossible really without major expense and mods....I think the later Jayco's post Nov 2023 may have the batteries under the bed in a compliant "container" or slung underneath outside.

Luckily my rig has a battery compartment, metal lined with an external door and vents so no need to change anything, mod to mates van we just made some racks and stuck the batteries underneath, he was sick of batteries under the bed set up, left the charger and other junk under the bed though just ran the cables 6B&S to a buss barr, the regs are really about containing vapours and possibly giving maybe 30 secs extra if they have a china syndrone, 600c temps, no little bit of tin is going to do anything much ...................

There really is no where under this Jayco to mount two batteries that I can see unless major mods were made somewhere. If so would be easy to run to a Bus Bar arrangement from any new battery location. The only real option would be to mount them under the bed in a tin can...but being a poptop I need every square inch of space for storage...

and they will be checking over every van regularly to ensure compliance of course, even though the regulations aren't publicly available, even sections of it are hard to find so I doubt compliance will be an issue ................. I did look at a mates and suggested buy an external door, make a tin box for under the bed and the external door put in the wall for access to battery compartment, easily sorted but he saw the price of the door and just chucked them in the plastic boxes for the old AGM's ....
I think the best way is fit an outside vented door, tin box for batteries, just a modified Bunnings tool box is good, fit a slide also from Bunnings $20 and your good to go............ Can be in a cupboard or under bed the charger and other junk can be elsewhere no need for them to next to batteries if proper cable size used to a buss bar to hang everything off, cable can be run thru cupboards or underneath to come up into van again to Buss Bar, ..................... in the end you can spend a couple of hundred or go for the set up with a badge for a few grand.

There is nothing in the ASNZS3001 standards about what the battery enclosure has to be made of. It only has to be sealed, fixed by fixings that have to be removed by a tool ( lock and key fit that description) and vented to the outside. A roto moulded plastic tool box with a 20mm hole through the floor achieves that. Venting is only required if the lithium battery manufacturer deems it. 5;4;1 to 5;4.10 relate to general battery requirements like max voltage of 48v, battery must be rechargeable , Minimum capacity of 40AHr at 20hr discharge rate, battery terminal connections type and markings, Securing of battery, Correct charger for battery type, Isolation switching and control, Labelling of battery installation, proximity to metallic lines for lpg etc.

As usual new regulations do not consider the potential knock on effect. I think the biggest issue now will be Insurance cover in the event there was a fire attributed to the Lithium batteries...all caravan policies now will include some sort of appendix with conditions...if the battery system was installed by some one other than the manufacturer...ie self
Majority of policies will now include something like this;

OEM
OEM means the original equipment manufacturer of the electronically driven equipment or a company approved and/or licensed by the
original equipment manufacturer;
The following is added to the General Conditions Section of this Policy:
CONDITIONS FOR LITHIUM FIRE EXPOSURE AND CLAIMS
You must ensure as reasonably practicable:
• that the charging of any Lithium Battery is monitored for fire, temperature, smoke, damage and charge status and shall only be
performed
using charging equipment supplied or approved by the OEM;
• the location where any Lithium Battery is charged shall be free of any sources of ignition or flammable materials;
• all OEM guidelines and recommendations in relation to the use, installation, storage, charging and maintenance of any Lithium Battery
should be complied with; and
• any repairs, modifications, alterations to any Lithium Battery or its charging equipment shall only be performed by a licensed installer
and as per the OEM guidelines.
Unless otherwise stated in the Schedule, in the event of a Lithium Battery fire triggered claim an additional Excess of $2,500

That wording in itself opens a can of worms...The charging of the Lithium Battery.....using charging equipment supplied or approved by the OEM.
So if you have your what ever name Chinese Lithium Batteries being charged by say a Victron battery charger...how is it that the original Chinese manufacturer could be approached and asked whether they approve a Victron battery charger?
The only out clause really is "as reasonably practicable:" it may not be reasonably practicable to contact some Chinese manufacturer.

Note also..."Location of Lithium battery shall be free of ignition sources and flammable materials." That really means the only option is mounted in a tin box as any plastic or wooden structure or framing near the battery could be considered flammable.

So even if you, as in my case, installed Lithium batteries well prior to the new regs, the Insurer could get you anyway...but, it is only a $2500 penalty IF it was proved the batteries caused or started the fire...so it's not like your whole claim will be refused...

So for those of us with vans built prior to 2023 are stuck with having to attempting to find somewhere inside or under the van to mount a tin box for Insurance compliance purposes, therefore nothing will be "cheap" to fix or modify...

The new regs are more inline with toxic fumes besides most van batteries, well mine anyway, is LiPo4 so don't turn into a roman candle just have a melt down like AGM/GEL's, be more like a wiring or other equipment fault ............... and seeing the wiring on many vans over the years its a worry more don't go up in flames ......

With insurance if you were worried about the "What If" you actually wouldn't change the Tyre size, DiY brakes and many other things on van or car as that would leave an opening for Insurance to bail out ............... My insurance makes no mention anyway.

With insurance if you were worried about the "What If" you actually wouldn't change the Tyre size, DiY brakes and many other things on van or car as that would leave an opening for Insurance to bail out

Having spent a couple of decades writing Insurance Policies and overseeing claims I certainly have no fear of an Insurer bail out...lol...any insurance claim / loss will have a cause. If the cause of the loss was contributed to or caused by an "illegal" modification then yes an Insurer may have grounds to deny a claim.

If a caravan got a case of the wobbles for example and rolled over, had the owner altered wheel / tyre size then that loss would have to be able to be attributed to that modification...the modification would have to have caused the van to be unstable which would be very hard to prove anyway so highly unlikely a claim would be refused.
If it was found brakes did not operate effectively due to the owner having replaced linings etc himself, it would have to be found that this contributed to a loss...very very unlikely as there would be hundreds if not thousands of vans out there with brakes way out of adjustment, as there is no Law saying that a caravan has to have the brakes adjusted regularly...that is just an owner's responsibility.

If a van or RV burnt to the ground it is highly unlikely imo that any Insurer will carry out a detailed Forensic examination of the remains to find the cause...it isn't worth the time or money...just cop the loss and move on. All Insurers use external Loss Adjusters and usually accept their recommendations, they do not and cannot use their own staff as that can smack of Bias on their part to "save" money or what ever.

So if the Loss Adjuster were to suggest faulty wiring or incorrectly mounted batteries caused the fire then the Insurer will likely take that as the cause. So really bottom line...even if the Insurer has not included any additional conditions in their wording, the regulations for lithium battery installation will apply anyway.
The situation where this could be an issue would be after a fire that was put out but not after serious damage was done and it was plainly obvious where and how the fire started.
Most people do not realise that Insurers spend a fortune on Loss Adjusters and claims, the part they see...the payout...can be half of what it actually cost the insurers in time and money to settle the claim.

I personally believe AGM batteries posed far more of a danger of catching fire than any decent LiFePO4 battery does...funny how these new regs come out after hundreds of Lithium-Ion batteries in Scooters and E-Bikes started exploding left right and centre...totally different potentially unstable chemistry of course.

That all said, there are plenty of DIY'ers that should be kept right away from anything mechanical or electrical. The Insurer's wordings only cover them should novices be playing with serious stuff they have no idea about.

@Hitting the road an interesting side bit to scooters, a relatively new house up the road from us recently burned down due to a fire in the garage. Apparently it started from a scooter being charged, I assume insurance covered the house as it’s just an empty block of land now!

Thats about my view as well @Hitting the road .............................

The fire isn't a worry really as the toxic fumes will get you first ........ What has always scared me is the old acid battery going Kabloom, jump start i'm always well clear, I was getting out of my truck once when the battery in the rig beside me went bang, blew the cover 30 yards away and covered the left side of mine with acid, scared the crap out of me , used a few water fire extinguishers to wash the acid off my cab, there was sizzling bubbles all over the place...