20' Series Passionfingers 20.64-1 OB wish list.

Bellbirdweb

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Jan 24, 2014
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Thanks @Crusty181 for confirming all that I thought we may need / want. All our grief has come about because this year the 20.63-1 is the opposite of last year, so we are after the model with bed on each end, unfortunately that has led to a lot of confusion from salesman used the old model numbers quoting on last years details. So your model is now called to 20.63-2 OB.

Yesterday turned out far better than we expected with the dealer being very accommodating over the loss of confidence we had in the process so far, I am pretty sure he realised when we walked in we were about to head back out the door and he would be refunding our deposit, and he gave us a great deal in the end, and the minister for finance had a smile on her face again at the end of the meeting, so we went ahead with the purchase.

I have opted to get rid of the entertainment unit, the factory wanted to put it down in the cafe dinette area, pointless to us, that would be where we set up a lot of our outside cooking gear and after finally seeing what space we had and what it would eat into, meh, we can live without it, and I am not without a few skills to retrofit a bracket at a later date for the amount of time it will be used.

Going the solar 300w with 200AH of battery as last year on a trip for 4 days free camping in 40 deg plus heat, with the 12v fans, the tv on with ABC for kids DVD's blaring for the 3 yr old, I found the 180w,100AH I had in the camper struggling a lot.

The Anderson plug for the fridge - is that a direct feed from vehicle battery, or from a dual battery? Is the feed in the 12 pin just not heavy enough to handle the load from the 4601 unit?

I will fit the TV brackets for the dinette and the rear bed later myself, as we will transfer the tv from our old van as well as use the new one from the showpack which we got upgrade in size for nothing.

I read your thread on the Ibis, so we went the upgrade to the 3 - should work well we hope, the olds bought a Sterling last year and over xmas on the stinking days I just sent the kids down to visit them in the same park, so we are excited about that considering the temps we usually encounter here in SA.

Can I ask why you relocated bunk power points to the foot end (and what is the foot end)?

We did finally manage to get back into the model that was on display at the show yesterday, without a cafe though, and it was great to take pics and confirm in our mind what we thought we wanted where. I have been fairly anal in going over the plan details, much to their horror, PID's and design layouts are up my alley in my working life - and adding a few 12 volt points in the van for fans etc. when we free camp in the heat.

Can I ask about water filtration, we have never had it before and I was laying in bed last night and remembered about it, is it standard on these vans? Do ppl go for 1 filter under the sink or straight from the tank etc. This is an area we have no experience in, apart from filling our old van 80l tank up and having to cart water in containers previously.

Thanks for all the other information, the minister has been reading and nodding her head, so she is happy- like you we are wanting long ownership and added quite a few bells and whistles, long way from the swag and ute nowadays.

Interestingly, from prices I saw posted from the Melbourne show, they were all 3k dearer on the 20.63 OB than here at the SA show. Not sure how that works with the factory in that state and road freight etc pricing.

@Passionfingers we have last years 21.64-1 OB, which from the sound of it, it roughly equivalent to what you have ordered (with the beds at both ends).

Just to comment on a couple of your questions:

Anderson plug - You can opt to have this connected either directly to the fridge, or to the van batteries from the car. I opted to have it connected to the batteries, and rely on the 12v supply to the fridge via the 12 pin plug. I went this way as I already had a dual battery system installed int eh tug, and by connecting it in parallel to the van battery via the Anderson, it was charging as we were driving, and visa versa, the car battery is charging when we are stopped from the solar, keeping both the engel in the car and the Dometic in the van running. With regard to running the van fridge on 12v, it seems not to matter too much which way you wire it, its doesn't work all that well on 12v anyhow, maintaining the temperature at best (although even this seems to challenge it).

TV Brackets - as @Crusty181 says, you will need to get the factory to fit the tapping plates in the walls of the van so you have somewhere to mount the TV brackets. We got the factory to install the bracket (as we didn't already have one), but if you are going to install your own brackets, you'll need the mounting points put in prior.

Water Filtration - We had the factory fit an under sink water filter with a little drinking water tap on the sink. It works well, however if I was doing it again, I would get a twin cartridge filter which sits before the main water inlet so that it filtered the water to everything before it came in to the plumbing. I mat of mine recently purchased this system, and has it so it clips on just near the inlet. Others here also use the BEST in-line filters in a similar way. I'm looking to add on of these in the near future as some of the water you get in parks tastes questionable at best.

Extended Draw Bar - I didn't see you mention an extended draw bar in your list of extras. I would highly recommend this as a relatively inexpensive addition. Not only because it gives you the potential for a tool box, but mainly because of the better turning circle. Even with the longer draw bar that we have, I still need a pretty good colder-sack or similar to turn around so I don't hit the draw bar on the rear bumper of the car.

Hanging Space - Our model only has 1 long cupboard, which we kept as a pantry with shelves, however in hindsight, we would have tried to get a wardrobe in there somewhere, as we do find it difficult to store jackets and my wife's dresses in there without stuffing them in an overhead cupboard. I did see a layout which I think may be yours that had two tall cupboards, which if we had seen we would have selected, so we could have both a pantry and a wardrobe.

Good luck with it all, it sounds like it going to be a great van. Can't wait to see the pics once you get it.
 
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Crusty181

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Nice to hear it was all sorted and your now on track, and more importantly the process has returned to being exciting, rather than a nightmare. I can appreciate from experience the frustration of finally getting to that point of making the decision to commit to that huge purchase, only to have it, and all your plans, all go pear shaped before your eyes.

I see your 12v predicament. We have 240amp in two batteries, and the one 150w panel. We only run the low end stuff on battery and if the going gets tough, out comes the serenity cancelling, neighbour upsetting, greenie infuriating, fume belching generator .... and at 40deg the whinges would want to number more a few, and have with a committed plan before they try to make me turn it off. Ha. Our stopover "free camping" is way different to our actual "free camping" ... the actual "Free camping" is very much a generator inspired power hungry extravaganza.

The Dometic fridges are very efficient and work very very well on all power modes, but Ill stick to the 12v. The new models are all tropically rated and designed for high ambient temp environment. The 3 ways Dometic fridges worst enemy is voltage drop, or lack of current. The Narva style 12pin flat plug is rated at 35amps on the large pins, the smaller of the Anderson Plugs is rated at 50amp .... your fridge will draw around 18 amps on 12v. The Narva is more than capable of carrying the fridge current, but obviously the Anderson is better. The biggest single requirement and issue, is the size of the wire and not the plug. A compounding issue is the required 6B&S size wire, which is very very thick. Although the Narva is adequate in capacity, its very difficult to get the 6B&S size wire into the connectors, so the Anderson becomes an easier option by default.

However you connect the fridge, it must be connected both positive and negative directly from the cars main battery terminals all the way to the fridge via its own plug, which is dedicated to just the fridge. Run pos and neg right thru, don't run just the positive and earth out the on the chassis. When you stop the car for a prolong period such as lunch, or over night etc, you'll need disconnect the fridge or the 18amp draw will flatten your battery. You can disconnect the fridge by using a motion switch, relays or simply pulling out the Anderson. If I plan to stop for more than a hour, I turn the gas on.

I have the 150ltr Dometic fridge, dedicated 6B&S twin core cable, running via an oversized relay, and circuit breaker, using soldered terminal lugs and a 50amp Anderson .... my fridge temp will routinely be lower, on a hot day after travel, than when we unplugged from the last c/park.

Our van by default, had 240v GPO in the bunks right next to where the pillows (and my sons head) would be. If he rolled over in the night with his tongue out he would light up like xmas tree. Im not sure what 240v items Jayco thought would be plugged into a GPO next to your head in a bunk, other than perhaps a CAPEP machine. Not a great photo, but the 240v GPO was on the robe wall behind the bunk curtains, and thats the agreed head end because otherwise my son would have to somehow reverse up the ladder.
2014-10-20 10.49.22 copy.jpg

So we had the GPO, and added 12v and TV point put in the wall at the end where your feet live when your sleeping; at the ladder end.
2015-01-27 19.33.14.jpg

I also got them to provide me with wall plans so I knew where the plating and all the internal framework was located in case I want to cut holes in it myself at some point. The only spot they would put our ext shower didn't suit me, so I cancelled it in favour of putting it where I wanted it later, thats what motivated the wall plans initially. But we won't bother with the ext shower now because I found the housings just to cheap and flimsy.

Ive installed a 12v plug on to the road side, handy for all many of things but primarily for a 12v sullage sump. I should have had that wired from the factory.

They have no water filtration by default, We've not ever used filtration, preferring to limit the tanks to just drinking water, which presented a dilemma with the new van (next paragraph). In our previous 16.49.1 with only one tank, that worked quite well for us. We would top it up when the town water was good, and pass if it wasn't. If the water was average mains water for everything other than drinking. 3 months up the east coast during the drought, when water was probably at its worst and it still worked well and we never ran dry of tank drinking water. Not sure if that would over the west, i.e. if good water is relatively consistently enough ... but I suppose we can always buy a filter enroute. I think I would likely opt for the self contained canister type that can just hang on a chassis hook under the water filler, if and when I need it.

Another issue we discovered on our 5 week maiden voyage at xmas was the inability to extract the world best (Melb) tank water whilst connected to mains pressure. Unlike the little Expanda .... no hand pump. We drink a lot of water so it was both bewildering and annoying. I have a plan to remedy that tho .....

I still use my swag .. rolled out in the back of the ute at the farm.

When we purchased our first Expanda, I mentioned that maybe we'd wait until the next show for the special deals. Our favourite Jayco salesman (hi John) showed me the previous years show price list on a little printed card, and before I opened my mouth he started the ball rolling by offering a starting price thousands of $$$ under that, ending the negotiations many thousands of $$$ under that. The show is a great place to look and compare ..... but potentially the worst place to buy if you haven't done the figures and home work before.

We signed up in July 2014 for a Oct delivery, and when the van arrived a lot of stuff had changed mostly for the better in out case. A few things were missing, so photos are a great resource. In hindsight, and certainly next time, I will include in the contract the requirement for notification and approval of any proposed changes away from the display model.

If your going to provide your TV etc, make sure that the contract includes the wall plating ... or you'll be trying to mount your TV bracket onto 4mm ply and polystyrene. I requested just the blocking, and a bracket supplied in the box so I could mount it where I wanted it. I quite like the look of the Jayco Sphere TV brackets, and you can get a base plate at the same time to mount outside over the table and it all fits nicely when swiping TVs around. I mounted a base plate on the wall in the bunk pic above, to mount our outdoor TV on for storage .... and my son can watch it
 
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Crusty181

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@Bellbirdweb My post was so long, your popped whilst I wasn't looking.

Im reading that you bypass the vans Setec entirely and connect the car directly to the vans battery via the Anderson?? I never thought of that option, although with the new vans solar, I suppose it slightly less of an issue

With the last little Expanda I was initially going to wire my Setec to the car, to charge the van battery whilst driving. Jayco weren't much help, so I contact Setec direct and the tech dude said I would have to drive all day to get replace any reasonable power back into the battery. I never bothered because the next (better) option was the CTek dual D250 12v charger which has a higher charge rate; but that also fell over because that CTek doesn't like the "smarts" that my cars alternator has and it won't work properly. So I never bothered with any of it.

With the little Expanda I would describe the fridge 12v function as being a very second rate "just getting me from point to point" thing .... but with wiring up the new car with the heavy wire, Anderson and all heavy duty soldered connections, the new fridge (same 150ltr type as the other one) works exceptionally on 12v ... actually lowering the fridge temp as we drive. We should probably not mention or discuss it again, in case it mozzes me.
 
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Bellbirdweb

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Jan 24, 2014
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@Bellbirdweb My post was so long, your popped whilst I wasn't looking.

Im reading that you bypass the vans Setec entirely and connect the car directly to the vans battery via the Anderson?? I never thought of that option, although with the new vans solar, I suppose it slightly less of an issue


With the little Expanda I would describe the fridge 12v function as being a very second rate "just getting me from point to point" thing .... but with wiring up the new car with the heavy wire, Anderson and all heavy duty soldered connections, the new fridge (same 150ltr type as the other one) works exceptionally on 12v ... actually lowering the fridge temp as we drive. We should probably not mention or discuss it again, in case it mozzes me.

@Crusty181 yes I have the anderson going directly to the van battery, which put it in parallel with the 2nd battery on the tug, which in turn is controlled by a Rotronics battery controller.

You are correct about the voltage drop, however I have measured the voltage at the fridge on 12v with the engine running and it was still 12.7 volts under load, which was the same as what my voltmeter in the tug was reading, and that is through the 12 pin plug.

I have never seen the temp drop on 12v, but until recently when I realised there was 0v going to the fridge because my 12 pin was wired differently to Jayco, I havent had much to go by, so I'll continue to monitor it on the next few trips to see if its at least holding the temp, and if not might look to running it directly through the anderson instead.
 
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Feb 19, 2015
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Hi All, thanks for all your replies and advice, we have finally sorted out the majority of the issues and signed off on the final order - due mid April.

The minister for finance is pretty happy with the final solution except for not getting her washing machine due to the new location that they wanted to place it on this years model. So we will continue to get excited over the next month and a half and as I walk past the lemon of another van I can scowl at it and then smile knowing its days are numbered!
So once we rcv I will start a new thread with some pics as I assume we will be one of the first to get the new 2015 incarnation, and the Jayco website will probably still not be updated by then, for ppls reference.
Cheers PF
 
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