Exterior A suggestion for checking important weights....

[Dobbie]

Ok. I'll try again.

For some unknown reason, the changes made before posting last time were lost so I've tried to remember what was adjusted.

I think they have been made, apart from the "yes, no" option but West Australia is still debating that issue as I lost the one that works.

There are two sheets now........one is a blank, the other is an example I used to sort out changes made when we updated our vehicle.

As before thanks to those who contributed.

I hope it helps!!!

 

[Tricky]

Great work thanks for posting

 

[bigcol]

thought I should add this as well, so people can have some semblance of understanding what is what

 

[BruceD]

Thanks @Dobbie for the spreadsheet. I had a basic one but this is better. I thought I was on top of all of this but am now confused. I also believe that my compliance plate is incorrect. The GTM is higher than the ATM.
When calculating the actual payload you can put in the van should you use the ATM or GTM. If the GTM is the maximum weight of the caravan on the ground, ie the tow ball weight is transferred to the car, then do you use this figure, ie the lesser of the two.
Using the spreadsheet, and actually weighing most items, if I use the ATM then I am under, if I use the GTM then I am over.

 

[Dobbie]

I'm pretty sure it's the ATM and the difference between the ATM and the Tare gives you the van payload.

That usually sits around the 375 mark (for an outback) which is what the Jayco blurb lists....the other van weights vary according to extras included in the build and are set at end of manufacture.

The GTM is the one that is taken into consideration when calculating the Gross Combined Mass of both vehicle and caravan....but it's the GVM of the vehicle that changes according to the vehicle payload as well as the actual tow ball mass.

At least, that's how I understand it.

I found it very difficult to clarify and understand, hence the spreadsheet. And then I changed my vehicle so had to nut it out again.

Even though my vehicle has a towing capacity of 3500kg and can take a ball weight of 350 it's surprising the other factors that come into play.


.:hippie:

 

[BruceD]

@Dobbie Thanks for the reply. I have always used the ATM, but after filling in your spreadsheet I just thought I should be using the GTM. After submitting the post I did some more searching/googling and all came clear (again)
When we bought the Retreat I had a Ford Territory AWD diesel which had a maximum tow of 2700. I remember the factory saying that they would set the ATM of the van to this figure to comply with the Ford. I have since sold that now have the Jeep which is 3500. I might ask the question of the factory if the ATM can be altered higher. The payload at the moment is 478.

 

[Dobbie]

I think mine is 582 but when I take the added extras and the tow ball weight into it, it reduces considerably.

It really surprised me!

I'm still not totally sure how much of the fuel weight is to be added and my full tank is 135l so there's another possible 135kilos (but I think only 75/ is to be added....but I can't confirm that)

I'm very open to suggestions for easy changes to the spreadsheet as I think it's an exercise we all need to understand and it's so complicated that I almost gave up in disgust.

 

[BruceD]

My understanding is most cars tare/kerb weight includes 10 litres of fuel. Any more than that has to be included in the payload.

 

[Dobbie]

Ok ...thanks.

Thére goes another 125kgs!

 

[bigcol]

just for more information for you all, an excellent article in the latest edition of Unsealed 4x4 that explains GVM, towing capacity etc.
have a look here

it could be quite scary though

 

[kozza]

http://ozhitch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/towingmassguidenov2007.pdf

If you're looking for info on your car - there's most in this link at least up until 2007

or a previous post:

http://www.expandasdownunder.com/threads/vehicle-towing-mass-guide-2014-updated.3259/

 

[BruceD]

Interesting article @bigcol well written in plain language.

 

[davemc]

Good article @bigcol. had not seen that one yet.
The couple of things they could of expanded on.
The whole kerb weight thing.. Pajero Sports is full tank of fuel, Disco 90% Fuel plus 75kg driver, Mux 10liters fuel. Some you just cannot find. .
GVM upgrade normally means your GCM stays the same. So your payload increases although what you can tow decreases. looked at it for the MUX although no one does one. The dealers said they did .. ARB etc said only the DMAX

Yes I went mad on sums and we eventually brought another Disco Also could not fit the silly car seats we need for another 3-4 years
Lucky our van is 2800.. hate to see those with the big 3500kg offroad vans.

 

[bigcol]

Good article @bigcol. had not seen that one yet.
The couple of things they could of expanded on.
The whole kerb weight thing.. Pajero Sports is full tank of fuel, Disco 90% Fuel plus 75kg driver, Mux 10liters fuel. Some you just cannot find. .

you think thats bad mate, I have been searching for about 18months to find out what the GCM & Tare is for my Patrol

they usually only specify the Utes - as they are commercial vehicles

 

[davemc]

you think thats bad mate, I have been searching for about 18months to find out what the GCM & Tare is for my Patrol

they usually only specify the Utes - as they are commercial vehicles

and the Disco Tare was not from the current Land Rover site.. found the same info on a few Land Rover forums and some articles.

 

[davemc]

I think the only way to be sure is weight the car and van. you know what GVM is hopefully so load it with 80-90% full tank and weight it.
Will give you your real payload.

 

[bigcol]

I have found yet another piece of useless information (or call it drivel) with regards to towing

have a look here, and see if it is suspicious or not

me thinks that someone is wanting to screw over the general public with new Caravaning Laws.................

 

[mfexpanda]

I have found yet another piece of useless information (or call it drivel) with regards to towing

have a look here, and see if it is suspicious or not

me thinks that someone is wanting to screw over the general public with new Caravaning Laws.................

I hink he may sell imported vans

 

[davemc]

The rule of thumb used to be a van less then your car. Although now the big offroad vans weight a lot and more modern engines can pull more and add modern brakes/electronics not sure it still holds true.
I know @mfexpanda has a pathfinder that would tow 3tonne have you towed the Silverline with the Pathfinder vs the Colrorado?
A friend has a Pathy and said 2500 is getting close to the wall with it. He towed a few cars around.

 

[mfexpanda]

The rule of thumb used to be a van less then your car. Although now the big offroad vans weight a lot and more modern engines can pull more and add modern brakes/electronics not sure it still holds true.
I know @mfexpanda has a pathfinder that would tow 3tonne have you towed the Silverline with the Pathfinder vs the Colrorado?
A friend has a Pathy and said 2500 is getting close to the wall with it. He towed a few cars around.

No and thanks for reminding @mrsmfexpanda that I still haven't fitted the brake controller etc to the pathfinder.
The only thing that I think it would need is the upgrade to the suspension that I also haven't got to as the rear is very soft but power wise I think it's fine