20' Series Water coming out of tank inlet when mains connected

[Falco]

First trip in the recently purchased second hand 20.64-1. Only two major problems to sort out, the fridge is “dead”. I can’t fix that but the second problem hopefully I can.
Problem 2, when I plug the water hose into the mains water,
connector, water starts coming out of the front tank inlet..
I have searched the forum and found a few related posts. So it appears that the non return valve up by the mains water inlet, needs replacing. Is that correct. When Jayco assembled this caravan back in 2016, instead of pointing the mains connector down. For some reason they assembled this assembly with plastic mains water connector pointing UP. But put the plastic door on correctly, so you can’t close the plastic door when the hose is on, like you normally would. So the hose is pointing up and nearly hits the bottom of the slide out. I can’t see where to access this because the slide out is directly on top of it.

 

[Drover]

There is a good write up on the subject somewhere but anyway you are correct the NRV located inside the white mains connection fitting is the cause, the "O" ring has probably slipped, you will have to pull the fitting off the line from the inside, dismantle it and just remove the valve but before doing this get a John Guest inline NRV valve, then once you have fixed the fitting cut the line near the fitting and place the Guest fitting inline and your problem will be solved....... Many of us redesigned the whole thing moving the mains connection to just under the van, this not only made life easier it also removes a few joiners from inside the van in case of leaks.

 

[Boots in Action]

First trip in the recently purchased second hand 20.64-1. Only two major problems to sort out, the fridge is “dead”. I can’t fix that but the second problem hopefully I can.
Problem 2, when I plug the water hose into the mains water,
connector, water starts coming out of the front tank inlet..
I have searched the forum and found a few related posts. So it appears that the non return valve up by the mains water inlet, needs replacing. Is that correct. When Jayco assembled this caravan back in 2016, instead of pointing the mains connector down. For some reason they assembled this assembly with plastic mains water connector pointing UP. But put the plastic door on correctly, so you can’t close the plastic door when the hose is on, like you normally would. So the hose is pointing up and nearly hits the bottom of the slide out. I can’t see where to access this because the slide out is directly on top of it.

Hi @Falco , whilst you say that fridge is "dead", it may not be beyond fixing by yourself. Does it work on 240 volt? Does it work on gas? If one of these work, then it is probably something simple. Do not test it on 12 volts as this is slow and may need multimeter use. Also note that fridge will only work successfully if van fridge is LEVEL. It must be within 3 degrees of horizontal (front of van to rear of van when looking at door of fridge) and within 6 degrees of vertical (across the van axle to axle). Many a new vanner has had this problem and unfortunately if van is connected to gas or 240 volts outside these parameters, you will have no joy. In fact if continued efforts to do this, it will cause permanent damage to unit because crystals form in the internal rust preventative and these slowly block the flow of refrigerant liquid from flowing in pipes. Attached is link on how Heat Absorption fridges work for your information. Let us know how you go please.

http://www.portablefridgesonline.com.au/how-3-way-fridges-work

 

[Drover]

Right weve sorted your water squirter............. now the fridge after reading that informative article from Boots, you can now describe your fridge deadness to us and we can sort that out as well...
Mind, if you didn't run your fridge on 240v for a day or 2 before you left and only relied on the 12v powering it as you drove down the road then it won't do very much at all... nice and level, bubbles on level between the lines minimum............ 2 days running on 240v load fridge with cold stuff on day 2 departure on day 3 and fridge will perform well, then gas or 240v in camp, 12v only for use when driving down the road...................door opening kept to a minimum, cold all falls out door.

 

[RickB]

Also in my van the fridge won’t work unless the 12v is switched on using the top switch on the drifter panel.

 

[Boots in Action]

Right weve sorted your water squirter............. now the fridge after reading that informative article from Boots, you can now describe your fridge deadness to us and we can sort that out as well...
Mind, if you didn't run your fridge on 240v for a day or 2 before you left and only relied on the 12v powering it as you drove down the road then it won't do very much at all... nice and level, bubbles on level between the lines minimum............ 2 days running on 240v load fridge with cold stuff on day 2 departure on day 3 and fridge will perform well, then gas or 240v in camp, 12v only for use when driving down the road...................door opening kept to a minimum, cold all falls out door.

Right on @Drover on all points. Did not think about possibility of driving to get fridge to work on just 12 volts, even if properly pre-chilled beforehand.
Also for @Falco, the van fridge does not need to be level whilst travelling as the liquids are constantly in motion caused by the movement of the van on the road surface. When stationery, all liquids involved in cooling move around the system by gravity alone as there are no moving parts. Hence the reason to be level for proper performance. Also it is important to note that NO cooling will be available in the FRIDGE zone until the FREEZER section has had its full drink of liquid ammonia refrigerant (refer diagram of operation). Only then is any residual cooling available for the fridge section evaporator below to be noticed.
Thanks for your backing @Drover, as I too think that this problem can be overcome when we know what works and what doesn't!

 

[Boots in Action]

Also in my van the fridge won’t work unless the 12v is switched on using the top switch on the drifter panel.

Not familiar with that @RickB as my Penguin does not have a Drifter panel. I have just 4 positions on my Telford control panel starting from 5 o'clock position and going anti-clockwise - Off, Gas, 240v and Battery (12 volt for travelling with power from tug). Over to you on that one @Drover.

 

[Drover]

More details needed on fridge model but I assume its an auto job which requires a 12v supply to enable the circuit board to be active so it will detect power source be it 12v,gas or 240....as with all queries model ID is most important, with so many varieties of equipment pics are also good.

 

[Falco]

Thanks for everybody’s response. The fridge is a Thetford N3185, and it’s miraculously come back to life. For a whole 2 days everything was working on the fridge ( interior light, and control panel) but nothing was cooling down. When it stopped working, the fridge was running on gas, parked on a hill and with about 6° sideways lean also. So reading the above boots in action post it appears that was probably the cause of my problem. I hope I have not done permanent damage. But it’s working great now. -11° in freezer and 1° in fridge.
I’m glad that’s working. Travelling in Queensland with no fridge isn’t much fun.
Now, for the non return valve problem. I have got underneath and I can’t find how to access the other side of the mains filler, to see where to put the John Guest non return valve, as it has the slide-out directly over the top of the whole assembly. It appears that the whole slide needs to be removed to get access to this.
pictures below.
Drovers suggestion of moving the mains water inlet somewhere else, sounds like a great idea. Any hints on how to do this.

second photo is what,s directly underneath the first photo. Looks like some electrics for the slide out.

 

[Axl]

Problem 2, when I plug the water hose into the mains water,
connector, water starts coming out of the front tank inlet..

Correct me if I'm wrong but if there is water coming out of the water tank fill points when connected to mains the issue is not the mains inlet NRV the issue is the NRV on the discharge side of the pump has failed.

When the mains inlet NRV fails you will get water coming out of the mains connection point when the pump is running.

 

[Axl]

Thanks for everybody’s response. The fridge is a Thetford N3185, and it’s miraculously come back to life. For a whole 2 days everything was working on the fridge ( interior light, and control panel) but nothing was cooling down. When it stopped working, the fridge was running on gas, parked on a hill and with about 6° sideways lean also. So reading the above boots in action post it appears that was probably the cause of my problem. I hope I have not done permanent damage. But it’s working great now. -11° in freezer and 1° in fridge.
I’m glad that’s working. Travelling in Queensland with no fridge isn’t much fun.
Now, for the non return valve problem. I have got underneath and I can’t find how to access the other side of the mains filler, to see where to put the John Guest non return valve, as it has the slide-out directly over the top of the whole assembly. It appears that the whole slide needs to be removed to get access to this.
pictures below.
Drovers suggestion of moving the mains water inlet somewhere else, sounds like a great idea. Any hints on how to do this.
View attachment 64226View attachment 64227
second photo is what,s directly underneath the first photo. Looks like some electrics for the slide out.

@Falco have a read of this thread it has a few pics and info on what you are asking.

The inlet pipework assembly is usually found in a cupboard somewhere but as yours has a slide out I'm not sure.

https://www.expandasdownunder.com/threads/mains-water-inlet-non-return-valve-on-17-58-3.8759/

 

[Boots in Action]

Thanks for everybody’s response. The fridge is a Thetford N3185, and it’s miraculously come back to life. For a whole 2 days everything was working on the fridge ( interior light, and control panel) but nothing was cooling down. When it stopped working, the fridge was running on gas, parked on a hill and with about 6° sideways lean also. So reading the above boots in action post it appears that was probably the cause of my problem. I hope I have not done permanent damage. But it’s working great now. -11° in freezer and 1° in fridge.
I’m glad that’s working. Travelling in Queensland with no fridge isn’t much fun.
Now, for the non return valve problem. I have got underneath and I can’t find how to access the other side of the mains filler, to see where to put the John Guest non return valve, as it has the slide-out directly over the top of the whole assembly. It appears that the whole slide needs to be removed to get access to this.
pictures below.
Drovers suggestion of moving the mains water inlet somewhere else, sounds like a great idea. Any hints on how to do this.
View attachment 64226View attachment 64227
second photo is what,s directly underneath the first photo. Looks like some electrics for the slide out.

Glad that was the issue with your fridge @Falco . Just remember that same levelness is needed when you camp whether in caravan park or off grid. You should not be too worried about crystals building up inside pipes if you look after your fridge, but a lot depends on what the previous owner did. Attached is a little reminder of what happens over time if tubes slowly get blocked. Good luck with your NRV situation. Not my area of expertise, but I am sure there are plenty of members on this forum with lots of experience to help you. Cheers

 

[Drover]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if there is water coming out of the water tank fill points when connected to mains the issue is not the mains inlet NRV the issue is the NRV on the discharge side of the pump has failed.

When the mains inlet NRV fails you will get water coming out of the mains connection point when the pump is running.

Well pointed out, "old timers" kicking in @Axl , certainly correct its the nrv on the water pump, possibly a bit of crap holding it open, check pump model for online manual. Easy fix is to put guest nrv on pump inlet to stop mains flow to tank.

 

[Falco]

Thanks again for everybody’s help. To temporarily fix this problem I was using the water pump and water out of my tanks. The front tank run out so I turned the valve to use the back tank and used that for a while. I then thought I would try mains for a few minutes whilst having a shower. I kept the mains on, waiting for it to leak, And......no more leaking. I don’t know what’s happened, but it’s fixed. If it happens again I know how to fix it.

 

[Drover]

Sounds like a bit of crap got caught in your pumps NRV. Have look near the pump there should be a black tube thing inline, it is a simple filter that just unscrews, give it a flush.

 

[Falco]

So overnight the water is still coming out of the tank filling hole, but only about a couple of litres, nothing like before. So I obviously need a non return valve. My pump is a shurflow 4009 with a silicon style hose on the inlet and a johnguest hose on the outlet. So am I correct in assuming the non return valve
goes on the outlet side of the pump.
Just a bit confused as Drover says put it on inlet side, which would be a shurflow NRV with barbs for the silicon tubing, and axl says discharge side, which would be a John Guest NRV with push in fittings.
I cannot see any NRV on the existing plumbing.

 

[Axl]

So overnight the water is still coming out of the tank filling hole, but only about a couple of litres, nothing like before. So I obviously need a non return valve. My pump is a shurflow 4009 with a silicon style hose on the inlet and a johnguest hose on the outlet. So am I correct in assuming the non return valve
goes on the outlet side of the pump.
Just a bit confused as Drover says put it on inlet side, which would be a shurflow NRV with barbs for the silicon tubing, and axl says discharge side, which would be a John Guest NRV with push in fittings.
I cannot see any NRV on the existing plumbing.

@Falco there HAS to be an NRV there somewhere or you would have water pouring out of the fillers all the time when connected to mains.The pumps used in caravans are a non displacement impeller type pump which will allow flow through them either way depending on the pressure that is put on either side.

So without an NRV (usually installed on the discharge side) when hooked up to mains supply the pressure on the discharge side will be higher than the suction side and this will allow water will run straight through the pump back into the tanks thus filling them till they over flow.

Can you take a pic of the pump and pipework and post it? If not my guess is that it will be a John Guest NRV on the discharge side of the pump. This is what Jayco normally does but in saying that they do some some wild stuff at times so without a pic I may be wrong.

Attached is a pic I grabbed from the forum and I have put an arrow pointing to the discharge pipework, follow the pipe that is going through the floor where the red arrow is pointing and you will (hopefully) find the NRV.

 

[Drover]

Often the pump nrv is incorporated in the unit....Interesting that it clear line on \ (stupid phone) I forgot about that as I ended up adding the pressure stuff with a joiner from the 3 way tap.......... and I suppose the NRV fitted to either outlet or inlet wouldn't matter much, whichever is easier.

 

[Axl]

Often the pump nrv is incorporated in the unit.....

If that is the case then you have a problem within the pump.....

Rather than worrying about that just add a John Guest NRV to the discharge pipework somewhere that is easily accessible, possibly in the line under the van but don't go to far from the pump if you can avoid it.

 

[Falco]

Yep thanks for all the advice. Definitely no Non Return Valve anywhere on it. I will put one on the outlet close to the pump.