Just Browsing some advice/opinion needed re outback or onroad ?

[Cam]

Hi, just signed up to this great website. Just after some advice for our trip around Australia with our 4 kids (ages 8, 5, 3, 18mths). Planning on heading off Feb 16. House just sold and I've told my bosses at work to suck it up - the trip is happening! Anyway, we're stuck on whether we go for the 17ft pop top outback or the 18ft hardtop on-road.


- tow vehicle is 2002 pajero. Max towing 2500kg- with the kids we want the shower/toilet option- we want a free camping setup and envisage we will be utilising as many free camping options as we can without serious off-roading. - given our tow weight limit as well as shower/toilet option we have identified two options 1. The 17ft outback pop top 2. 18ft hardtop on road (the outback in the hardtop exceeds our towing limit).


Some of our quirees that would assist our decision are the following:-

- is the outback model nessercery for free camping option whilst touring the country I.e. Occasional Corrugated dirt roads, occasional dirt track, etc. With our four kids we won't be venturing too far off the beaten track however thought that any unsealed driving we do that having the outback suspension would mean less impact on the van?

- are the bunks in the hardtop longer than the pop top? (We've heard from a friend who owns the pop top model that their 8 year old has almost outgrown the bunks).

- would the benefits of the storage space of the onroad hardtop outweigh the benefits of the outback poptop which seems to have less storage?


Any thoughts/advice/recommendations would be greatly welcomed!

(Apologies if this quiree or similar is already canvassed in another thread somewhere)

Cheers


Cam

 

[davemc]

hello and welcome. lots of helpful people around here.
With 2500 you might struggle to go OB unless secondhand (non JTech suspension) as once you start adding things it can go past.
you can get the plate fixed although your loosing some payload.
Could always under sling the axle on the touring for some extra ground clearance. We went OB just to get the van into the backyard without bottoming out.

I heard the same about bunks not sure? We have fixed in the Starcraft. And yes a toilet/shower be nice with four kids Although we wanted separate beds for each kid. Have one on the dinette and three in bunks

 

[Smirke]

hi there. we also have 4 kids (all boys) and have recently upgraded our swan to the 21-64 OB expanda. We were looking at a 17-56 1 OB to begin with, and were quite happy with ordering one until we took all the kids with us and sat inside one. Out went that idea and we move onto looking at bigger vans, mainly because with all of us in there, we could see it was getting a bit squeezy, which when it rains, is not a good idea.
The full size van takes the pressure off having to unclip the awning to lift the roof at bed time and at pack up time, and that extra space in the 18 would definitely be worth it, (plus no leaking or draughts around the skirt roof). However it isn't an outback and i've seen the spare tyre bottom out many a time while away, so in that respect, I like the outback (some people get it underslung). Whatever you get, just make sure you are really happy with the way the kids will be sleeping, because they are getting bigger by the second, so you want something for them to be comfy in, and to give you peace at night. (That's one reason why we deleted the ensuite in our van, as we can fit a full sized single mattress on the floor if need be, then each kid has their own bed.) See if you can find info on the bed sizes so you can then compare what you are getting.
Good luck with your decision.

 

[Cam]

hello and welcome. lots of helpful people around here.
With 2500 you might struggle to go OB unless secondhand (non JTech suspension) as once you start adding things it can go past.
you can get the plate fixed although your loosing some payload.
Could always under sling the axle on the touring for some extra ground clearance. We went OB just to get the van into the backyard without bottoming out.

I heard the same about bunks not sure? We have fixed in the Starcraft. And yes a toilet/shower be nice with four kids Although we wanted separate beds for each kid. Have one on the dinette and three in bunks

Thanks for the advice davemc. Cheers

 

[Cam]

hi there. we also have 4 kids (all boys) and have recently upgraded our swan to the 21-64 OB expanda. We were looking at a 17-56 1 OB to begin with, and were quite happy with ordering one until we took all the kids with us and sat inside one. Out went that idea and we move onto looking at bigger vans, mainly because with all of us in there, we could see it was getting a bit squeezy, which when it rains, is not a good idea.
The full size van takes the pressure off having to unclip the awning to lift the roof at bed time and at pack up time, and that extra space in the 18 would definitely be worth it, (plus no leaking or draughts around the skirt roof). However it isn't an outback and i've seen the spare tyre bottom out many a time while away, so in that respect, I like the outback (some people get it underslung). Whatever you get, just make sure you are really happy with the way the kids will be sleeping, because they are getting bigger by the second, so you want something for them to be comfy in, and to give you peace at night. (That's one reason why we deleted the ensuite in our van, as we can fit a full sized single mattress on the floor if need be, then each kid has their own bed.) See if you can find info on the bed sizes so you can then compare what you are getting.
Good luck with your decision.

Thanks smirke. Appreciate your suggestions. Cheers

 

[Crusty181]

Hi @Cam welcome, and congrats on taking on the big lap. Were prepping for a big trip as well. The onboard shower and toilet may not be the paradise it first seems. 80 litres in 1 tank will only last about 10 minutes or so in shower time, and my 8 yo filled the toilet in a day and a half on our shake down trip. Emptying and cleaning the dunny every day and a half sure wipes the smile off your face, when you find your mumbling "christ, not again. How much crap do kids hold"

You can only run the shower via the water tanks, and its not generally recommended to pump untested/untreated water such as creek water etc into your tanks when free camping for the shower use. You are likely to contaminate the tanks and render them useless for drinking water. We have a full bathroom, but we're taking our Coleman shower with us for free camping with locally found water and just use the onboard caravan shower only in caravan parks .... which have facilities anyway.

I initially had a slight frown when @Smirke deleted the bathroom from their van ..... but after getting my bohemoth, i can see now on a free camping trip the bathroom just novelty value really. Youll likely get better use out of space, than out of a bathroom. A shower tent and Coleman or Cube will get more use.

Wrong tire pressure on outback roads will cause more issues than touring van suspension. Touring Jaycos are realistically just as capable as their Outback brothers ... the Outbacks look cool, but its the ground clearance that gives them an edge, and an underslung axel will solve that on a tourer.

My advice would be to give yourself an ample weight buffer for both the car and the van ....

 

[Cam]

Thanks very much @Crusty181. Some good food for thought re the bathroom/shower and a good reminder re how much crap kids generate!
I think were sold on the tourer model in the hardtop at least. the outback would look a bit tougher behind the pajero howver apparently image is not everything according to my lovely wife.

The money for the house will come through in a couple weeks so we'll be able to look seriously then. We'll be buying second hand.

If hear of any second hand 18ft for sale let me know

Cheers!

 

[Smergen]

G'day @Cam... we've just gone away from our '02 Pajero/ 17.56.2 OB combo. It was just too much weight for the old girl. Sure she towed it OK, but I could tell it was at her limits... With a Big Lap planned in a few years, I felt it probably wasn't going to be comfortable enough to accommodate such an extensive trip. So I'd be wary of that...

We love our OB version and we'd definitely need to undersling a tourer just to get it in our driveway I'd imagine! We're currently thinking of upgrading to a full caravan for the big trip because we're wary of the lack of storage for a 6 month adventure. For our current adventures (2 nights to 4 weeks) its perfect, but we expect to be a few cupboards short for the longer trip. Whether we get one will depend on finances and whether we can find something suitable.

As for the ensuite... we wouldn't be without ours. Sceptical at first we were looking at a non-ensuite versions, but got a ".2" second hand at a great rate. Now, we haven't looked back. With our small 3 it's perfect for the night time nature calls. No #2s unless they are emergencies, and no day time visits. The shower has been used for hosing down after beaches/walks etc. Really, we love it. I suppose it could be replaced with a cube or tent, but it's pretty handy and convenient.

Either way, there are serious pro's and con's for most options and most will have an opinion on them, which is why this site is so great.

My main advice is to make sure your tug-van combo is as safe and capable as possible. No point worrying about how you spend your holidays if you can't actually get there.

 

[Bluey]

Thanks very much @Crusty181. Some good food for thought re the bathroom/shower and a good reminder re how much crap kids generate!
I think were sold on the tourer model in the hardtop at least. the outback would look a bit tougher behind the pajero howver apparently image is not everything according to my lovely wife.

The money for the house will come through in a couple weeks so we'll be able to look seriously then. We'll be buying second hand.

If hear of any second hand 18ft for sale let me know

Cheers!

My two cents the bathroom is great for my kids when driving dad I need toilet just stop and in the van they go if its raining it is also great we dont use it much just the kids and as smergen said quick hose downs are great vans are good for resale if have a toilet ?????

 

[Cam]

Hey @Smergen, great advice thankyou. Was your pajero diesel or petrol? Ours is petrol. I've only had a smaller caravan behind it so havent really tested it with a larger van.
We're feeling pretty set that the space of the full size touring caravan is going to be of more value than the outback poptop.
Also, great advice re the bathroom. Your experience seems to line up with our feeling that we would really appreciate the bathroom option with our 4 young kids.

Thanks again for advice. Yes a great forum and this little community has been super helpful in our thinking and helping us decide.

 

[Cam]

My two cents the bathroom is great for my kids when driving dad I need toilet just stop and in the van they go if its raining it is also great we dont use it much just the kids and as smergen said quick hose downs are great vans are good for resale if have a toilet ?????

Thanks @Bluey. Yeah I'll think we'll certainly appreciate the convenience with having toilet/shower

 

[crackacoldie]

The toilet and shower with kids is great. We did a 6 week trip with 5 of us and had plenty of storage in our 16'. As for outback v tourer, I'd go the outback, you do get a heavier drawbar and with the 2015 models, you also get upgraded suspension. The outback also comes with some extra options (refer to the brochures).

 

[Smergen]

Hey @Smergen, great advice thankyou. Was your pajero diesel or petrol? Ours is petrol. I've only had a smaller caravan behind it so havent really tested it with a larger van.
We're feeling pretty set that the space of the full size touring caravan is going to be of more value than the outback poptop.
Also, great advice re the bathroom. Your experience seems to line up with our feeling that we would really appreciate the bathroom option with our 4 young kids.

Thanks again for advice. Yes a great forum and this little community has been super helpful in our thinking and helping us decide.

No problem with advice... I reckon I owe this forum far more advice given how much I've already taken from it. Our Paj was a diesel, 3.2L, NM. Like I said, it towed it more than fine, particularly on the flat. But any kind of incline and I spent more time looking at the temp gauge than I did the road... She was an old girl, with plenty of kays on the clock, but we're pretty happy with The Rock Truck now...

Look forward to seeing how your decision process goes. Don't forget to keep us updated and post plenty of pics... We love pics!

 

[dagree]

No problem with advice... I reckon I owe this forum far more advice given how much I've already taken from it.
Don't forget to keep us updated and post plenty of pics... We love pics!

Ditto to both comments

 

[chartrock]

@Smergen, We have done a couple of 3 months trips with a pop top (14 footer). Once you go past a couple of weeks extra time away does not make much difference. Clothes get washed so we figure no more are needed for 6 months than for 2 weeks and supplies will usually be obtainable every few days if travelling so we saw no reason for extra storage I admit we have no kids but I think they would also survive with the same clothing and supplies for 6 months as they would for 2 weeks.
I can't get Mrs CR to go away for 6 months.

 

[Crusty181]

@Smergen and @Bluey we spent 5 weeks away to xmas up the east coast and the bathroom (and reluctantly the dunny too, although yours truly is the only Kenny onboard) was without question, along with the washing machine, the single greatest inclusion we have in the van. I'm well and truly in your camp on that one. I will admit we felt a little posh. But mostly free camping with 6 in a 17 footer, do you guys reckon that space would be worth the sacrifice.

We did use a shower tent a lot over many years when we had the 16.49, so maybe Im not quite posh enough just yet ..... just give me a little more time. Maybe a current dose of winter shower tent may dramatically punch me into reality

 

[Cam]

No problem with advice... I reckon I owe this forum far more advice given how much I've already taken from it. Our Paj was a diesel, 3.2L, NM. Like I said, it towed it more than fine, particularly on the flat. But any kind of incline and I spent more time looking at the temp gauge than I did the road... She was an old girl, with plenty of kays on the clock, but we're pretty happy with The Rock Truck now...

Look forward to seeing how your decision process goes. Don't forget to keep us updated and post plenty of pics... We love pics!

Thanks @Smergen . Will certainly keep you posted & will get some pics up when we eventually find the rig. We'll just be waiting for the right one to pop up at the right price. Cheers

 

[Flossymk1]

I definitely agree re the pros of having a shower & toilet on board! We are relatively new to caravanning ourselves, and with 2 kids we find it invaluable on the road, especially when they decide they have to go to the toilet immediately! We have the same rules as many others re no #2's unless absolutely necessary, and even in caravan parks I prefer to use the on board shower instead of carting my toiletries etc over to the amenities block (although we have a separate shower/toilet, so we don't have to worry about wiping it dry after showering).

Good luck with the search!

 

[bigcol]

can I add to the "shower / toilet" V's none................?

I have a 16.49 - no shower toilet - didnt think I would need or want one, same with Hot Water............
but
running to the toot at 2am when its raining..............hhhhmmmmmm and if you have little kiddies......... well.............

if I had my "druthers" I would "drather" have the toot, and have a shower tent for if necessary.
get the hot water as well if its there.......

same as a few (@chartrock ) has said, packing for 2 weeks / 10 weeks / 6 months same amount of clothes, and Laundries every where, yes on the bigger vans with more room, a washing machine is a cool idea........

Touring V's Off Road.......... well, the chassis is bigger (more weight) but will take more punishment if you DO decide to go and park on beaches National Parks etc......... covers all maybe eventualities
not saying the Touring ones are not as strong......... just that the Off Road is stronger

I would pick the Van you want, make sure its what you want
THEN upgrade the Paj if you need to,


but settle on the Van first

 

[Bluey]

@Smergen and @Bluey we spent 5 weeks away to xmas up the east coast and the bathroom (and reluctantly the dunny too, although yours truly is the only Kenny onboard) was without question, along with the washing machine, the single greatest inclusion we have in the van. I'm well and truly in your camp on that one. I will admit we felt a little posh. But mostly free camping with 6 in a 17 footer, do you guys reckon that space would be worth the sacrifice.

We did use a shower tent a lot over many years when we had the 16.49, so maybe Im not quite posh enough just yet ..... just give me a little more time. Maybe a current dose of winter shower tent may dramatically punch me into reality

mmmmmmmm we have certainly lost space eg cupboards and bench top , but I would defiantly have it , us adults can handle most things but some amenity blocks u wouldn't wash ur car in them let alone the kids , we have what we have now and u learn to deal with the space we have , to me its well worth it not to carry them in the cold or rain to toilet , I don't care about emptying it always do it late night , never really stinks its easy the drain it goes to stinks much more I must admit I use it a bit after a few drinks late at night couldn't handle going walking every half hr or so lol