Electrical New rules for the installation of Lithium batteries in vans

[Boots in Action]

Attached is the link for the latest ruling on the installation of Lithium batteries in vans from 1 November. This may have ramifications for those thinking of fitting lithium batteries as replacements for other batteries, OR even upgrading or modifying Lithium systems. All new vans with OEM will have to meet these new guidelines. If your installation does not meet these latest rules, your insurance on van may not be valid if electrical problem causes a fire!! This may mean positioning lithium batteries externally or fully sealing off the battery area if inside. Tread your own path!!

New AS/NZS 3001.2:2022 standard for batteries - Caravaners Forum - Since 2000

 

[Drover]

I read a brief of the Standard while I was researching my lithium, wish I knew where I read it, mine conforms to the regs as it is in its own sealed compartment vented to outside, so ticked all the boxes so didn't worry too much, while the standard was stamped NOV last year it doesn't seem to have been circulated until a few months ago and at near $200 for your own copy, well yes like that going to happen .............................. I do know that internal battery compartments like under seats/beds etc need to be in sealed compartments vented to outside (min 20mm vent) with an external entry or if internal access that doorway needs to be sealed, external battery set ups need to be enclosed so no damage to battery, though a Lithium mounted external I thought wasn't a great idea due to hazard of the battery being at 0c deg and being charged.

Baintech and Enerdrive along with this mob give a brief rundown............. https://www.invictalithium.com.au/invicta-caravan-standards-update/



It should be noted that AGM/GEL batteries if stored internally under the seat/bed which is normal, will if they fail get hot, the case distorts and cracks, the internal gel starts to vapourize so you get acid rain in the compartment, so while they are safer than standard calcium batteries which should never be fitted inside thay aren't great if they fault .............. Have had one of mine do this luckily in its own compartment and a mates which flooded his boot with acid drops which I helped clean up, had to wash down everything, throw out electrical units and then install a new battery, chargers and wiring...


If you want your own personal copy; https://store.standards.org.au/product/as-nzs-3001-2-2022

 

[Hitting the road]

Hmmm...I did replace the 2 x AGM's in my van with 2 x Lithium batteries back in February / March this year. They are just sitting where the AGM's were under where the dinette used to be. (The original seating is no longer there)
They are not in any sealed enclosure, nor were the AGM's for that matter. As you note drover, AGM's were never immune from major failures!

It would not be practical to put them in a sealed type enclosure under the seating area...it would be nigh on impossible to access them from the outside as the inner guard for the wheels is right there. Same as hanging a box off the chassis rail to house them as it would eliminate any clearance underneath from obstacles...it is an "Outback" van so is supposed to be able to transverse reasonably tough terrain...within reason.

The new legislation was as all reports read, to apply to new builds only. My van was never built to house batteries outside of the internal living space...these Jayco's have the battery / s under the dinette, or under the bed. I am guessing as I did the installation prior to this legislation taking effect I may be immune from it. But...I wonder how it will go when I sell? Will there be additional requirements...sort of like a gas certificate to be supplied to the new owner?

There would have been plenty new vans sold with Lithium batteries fitted would not comply with this new Legislation I am sure...

 

[poor but proud]

me thinks there will be money to be made here, it will be interesting to see how many claims insurance companies will try and reject when they read the regulations to suit their agenda , i would hope the regulations are very clear to what is actually meant, by the way i used to work for an insurance company and i know how they nit pick and look for loopholes ,let the buyer/user beware as most (especially online) retailers dont really care what you do with the product once they make a sale

 

[Hitting the road]

I spent the last 20 years working my own Insurance Broking business, and would always read an Insurer's PDS before recommending a particular product.

It is Legislated that any PDS must be written in plain English that is easily understood by the average person with no ambiguity. It does pay to read the PDS relating to your policy to ensure there is nothing that could suggest a claim might be denied...

 

[poor but proud]

I spent the last 20 years working my own Insurance Broking business, and would always read an Insurer's PDS before recommending a particular product.

It is Legislated that any PDS must be written in plain English that is easily understood by the average person with no ambiguity. It does pay to read the PDS relating to your policy to ensure there is nothing that could suggest a claim might be denied...

Totally agree, and fully read the PDS.each time you renew the policy, just renewed my road service extras cover, some benifits deleted and wording unclear as to what was covered, rang usual contact number, staff member unsure what was meant,she referred me to supervisor, who also did not know what was meant ,then got an opinion from underwriting manager who thought it meant bla bla bla ,but did agree it was badly written and could mean a number of things ,make sure they send a current (preferably paper) PDS each time you renew make very sure what you are getting before you hand your money over

 

[Drover]

The snippets I have read of this Standard certainly looks like the usual ambiguous writings of government ................ bringing it up has also reminded me I was going to look into the new gas bottle/fitment or something regs that came out around the same time .................. of course its mostly PR floss so the authorities can look to be doing something but don't really enforce other than by some sort of Honour Boy Scout pledge...................... I doubt any investigation into a lithium battery fire in a van would leave anything to be seen ..........
Having seen a magnesium flare fire results in a container in a trailer, china syndrome melt down .... run away, run away....

Insurance and government writings are always meant to be a little bit grey.... IR stuff always gave me a headache as you had to read far more so you could find the bits that actually cancelled out earlier paragraphs .............

I wouldn't worry that much about LiPo4 batteries as they seem to be as safe as GEL or AGM's, get too hot and split open then you are in trouble... but after happenings with AGM/GELs I would have them isolated from the main cabin of an RV....

 

[Hitting the road]

I have re-read the "new" Legislation relating to Lithium installation and it does apply to post November 2023 installations...so I am ok. But...I will look at some sort of venting from the battery compartment to outside anyway...though where some of the existing wiring disappears in to the fridge cavity it isn't sealed off so that will be a good spot to add a small vent...be easy enough to seal the access covers...

 

[Drover]

Here we have Australian Standards for safety, not easily available unless a large fee is paid which in turn restricts use to one device and only 2 copies may be printed, this applies to all the publications, such restrictive barriers for the distribution of such important documents is pretty poor, with the government giving the job to a NGO to produce and distribute ............

Government stepping away from responsibility again makes you wonder what they actually do, other than wasting all our taxes.

 

[jazzeddie1234]

I was ahead of the times then in mounting the batteries under the floor

 

[poor but proud]

Can just picture any new van or motorhome towing a mini trailer for the lithium battery bank, have you seen the cease to use and recall for household solar battery banks because of fires

 

[Drover]

Can just picture any new van or motorhome towing a mini trailer for the lithium battery bank, have you seen the cease to use and recall for household solar battery banks because of fires

It really depends on the lithium battery type, Lithium battery is generic some go flash/boom some don't, if you have a Lithium Ion battery as your house battery in a van, a battery box aint gonna do a thing, when something cooks at 1,000 plus degrees a legislated box will do bugga all...

 

[Boots in Action]

It really depends on the lithium battery type, Lithium battery is generic some go flash/boom some don't, if you have a Lithium Ion battery as your house battery in a van, a battery box aint gonna do a thing, when something cooks at 1,000 plus degrees a legislated box will do bugga all...

When it comes down to it, all legislation "tries" to legally cover all areas and persons. From those who are totally ignorant (or worse still, those who know just a little - enough to be dangerous), through all the "know alls" who think they know everything to the fully "professional" tradesperson who has had the full and proper training to get his/her ticket and must abide by the rules, (regardless of their own thoughts!) to have some protection from a law suit!! All this is to protect the "innocent or ignorant from their own stupidity. That way, the non-professional carry their OWN risk. A so-called professional can expect to be protected by law AS LONG AS HE/SHE FOLLOWS THE DIRECTIONS ACCORDING TO THE LEGISLATION. Unfortunately, "common sense" is not so common these days and rarely finds a place with some people today. Take for instance all the rules regarding towing and load limits for tugs and vans when hitched together and separate.

All is okay until you have a problem and want to claim on insurance, or get caught or the installation fails. That's when the chickens come home to roost! But by then, they have turned into emus and are kicking in the dunny door!!!

 

[Boots in Action]

I was ahead of the times then in mounting the batteries under the floor

You were @jazzeddie1234 . Daughter has just taken delivery of a new Network RV van which had a single 300ah lithium battery under the bed. Owing to the fact that the single battery was only able to provide a max of 150 amps (insufficient to operate the 3000w inverter at anything more than 1500w), the company overcame this problem by supplying a further 300ah lithium battery to be placed in parallel with the existing battery. This was rushed through within a week to be "upgraded" before the deadline on November 1st. I don't believe any special arrangements were made/constructed to seal off areas around batteries??? So manufacturers were obviously aware of forth coming regulations as was my Daughter!!

Currently they are trying to sort out a problem with the solar panel/s input cutting out power to some of the circuits when an external folding solar panel is connected to the 2 x 200w solar panels on roof. Are these latest "fixes" considered a modification or upgrade of power to/from lithium batteries after 1st November???

But as @Hitting the road said, they were still placed under the bed in an unsealed area with all the other electrics - 240v AC charger, MPPT solar controller, BC to DC equipment, relays and wiring for the whole van. All Victron equipment too. You would not want to have anything go wrong or "short out" with that much electrical power under you!!

And will this have to be modified to latest standards/regulations before van can be sold like the latest gas regulations for vans???

 

[Drover]

I haven't seen anything about selling a van and its then required to conform to the new standard, that would make for lots of problems especially as each lithium battery requires a certificate to state it conforms to IEC 62619 , I can see the gouging in pricing already ................................

I don't hold too much about professional trades people like common sense, thin on the ground............

If anyone aquires the relevant section of the standard I would like to have a look to actually see instead of taking hearsay.............

I would be concerned about having a LiPo4 mounted outside it would need insulation to try and keep temps within parameters.

The new Standard has been out since Nov 22 I think it had a 6 month grace period and is now current, the new conditions on local and imported new RV's won't come into effect until mid-Nov 2024... Time so manufacturers can comply, it is not retrospective......... well thats what I am led to believe from some industry sources ... not blog ramblings though...

 

[Hitting the road]

I read too that the new Legislation is not retrospective. But as Boots mentioned above re his Daughters RV...there would have been a number of vans & RV's rushed through to beat the deadline avoiding additional costs to comply.

I actually checked with Aussie Batteries re the Atlas Lithium batteries I bought...I was informed by them they do comply to the IEC 62619 requirements. They are supposed to be Australian made rather than a cheap Chinese import....but I am thinking that would likely mean assembled here from imported Chinese components...

 

[Drover]

As far as I can tell its next year that manufacturers must comply with new vans besides its the manufacturers that must comply as the Standard only refers to the battery compartment requirement, certified Lithium battery with a certificate given to owner of van along with the requirement of the BMS system to be able to be monitored so everything is on the manufacturer to comply ........... 12v RV/vehicle wiring doesn't need to be installed or certified by an electrician as its under the 48v DC or somewhere around that level, any competant person can do it, so all it means is that when you buy a new RV that is certified under the relevant standard along with keeping your Gas Ticket, Electrical 240v compliance ticket handy you will need one for your lithium battery, of course the Electrical plate will refer to the current Standard ....... So basically nothing for the owner to do other than hold the tickets ....................... I very much doubt any inspections will be done and I have no incentive or motive to but a new van at any time so its all just information to me.............. My 12 year old rig actually meets the requirements other than the lithium battery being of the relevant certification, well I don't have anything to prove it anyway, no sticker or paperwork but it doesn't bother me one iota, its not supposed to cook so all good...... besides I have a WARRANTY.....

As for Insurance its all a wind up, manufacturers responsibility in the first instance to meet compliance which should be ticked off on registration, another form that should be kept is the roadworthy, if not they have committed a few offenses........
The lithium bursting into flames is the only major hazard which would be an insurance job relating to the standard, wiring doesn't need to be certified ............. if folk are concerned about Insurance then don't change tyres or rims, add boxes to draw bar, move gas bottles or do any changes from what was originally specced by the manufacturer as there would be an escape for any insurance mob..........

 

[Drover]

Well a bit more on the Standard changes and it appears there is more to it that what was hinted at originally .......... this bulletin shows a read of the actual document will highlight some other changes ........ It could possibly mean it also applies to those battery packs some have inside their vehicles for fridges etc ........ https://www.diycaravans.com.au/wp-c...g6tzw.iD1pvPZWlLFBKI-1698437497-0-gaNycGzNC6U this link will download a pdf.



This article from BMPro shows there is more thna meets the eye and that the new Standard should be made more available. https://teambmpro.com/12v-guru-as-nzs-3001-2-electrical-installations-what-does-it-all-mean/



Another good article on the subject ........................... https://www.caravancampingsales.com...s-about-lithium-batteries-in-caravans-142957/

Quoted: Manufacturers installing lithium batteries to caravans built after November 18 2023 will need to comply to this new standard. Caravans built or modified prior to November 18 do not need to comply to this new standard as the standard is not enforceable retrospectively.

 

[Boots in Action]

Well a bit more on the Standard changes and it appears there is more to it that what was hinted at originally .......... this bulletin shows a read of the actual document will highlight some other changes ........ It could possibly mean it also applies to those battery packs some have inside their vehicles for fridges etc ........ https://www.diycaravans.com.au/wp-c...g6tzw.iD1pvPZWlLFBKI-1698437497-0-gaNycGzNC6U this link will download a pdf.



This article from BMPro shows there is more thna meets the eye and that the new Standard should be made more available. https://teambmpro.com/12v-guru-as-nzs-3001-2-electrical-installations-what-does-it-all-mean/



Another good article on the subject ........................... https://www.caravancampingsales.com...s-about-lithium-batteries-in-caravans-142957/

Quoted: Manufacturers installing lithium batteries to caravans built after November 18 2023 will need to comply to this new standard. Caravans built or modified prior to November 18 do not need to comply to this new standard as the standard is not enforceable retrospectively.

Well @Drover, now I understand why Daughter was keen to have the lithium battery issue fixed so urgently. Although the build for her van was just 3 months ago, the extra lithium battery to upgrade useable output would probably have been within the upgrade date for November this year 2023!!
Thanks for the update from BMPro too. Looks like I will have to place fuses on each of my solar panels when connected in series (as I mostly do). As at the MPPT controller, I can have up to 58.0 volts on low amperage output and around 49.0 volts with over 25.0amps when really charging a low battery. The cable I am using to connect the three panels in series is extra heavy duty oxygen free braided speaker cable. Whilst it is definitely low resistance cable, it is far from double insulated and not IP65 weather proof. The heavy duty 2 core cable which connects the string to the controller is double insulated but maybe NOT IP65 waterproof?? I guess i will just have to "roll with the punches" if necessary sometime between now and selling . Will see what needs to be done when all the dust has settled.

 

[Drover]

Well @Drover, now I understand why Daughter was keen to have the lithium battery issue fixed so urgently. Although the build for her van was just 3 months ago, the extra lithium battery to upgrade useable output would probably have been within the upgrade date for November this year 2023!!
Thanks for the update from BMPro too. Looks like I will have to place fuses on each of my solar panels when connected in series (as I mostly do). As at the MPPT controller, I can have up to 58.0 volts on low amperage output and around 49.0 volts with over 25.0amps when really charging a low battery. The cable I am using to connect the three panels in series is extra heavy duty oxygen free braided speaker cable. Whilst it is definitely low resistance cable, it is far from double insulated and not IP65 weather proof. The heavy duty 2 core cable which connects the string to the controller is double insulated but maybe NOT IP65 waterproof?? I guess i will just have to "roll with the punches" if necessary sometime between now and selling . Will see what needs to be done when all the dust has settled.

Very much doubt anyone will check... Also came across something about RCD's to be fitted to Inverter Output as well, could be interesting and it does seem like the battery box carried in the back of vehicles may be a thing of the past.... The inspectors will be run off their feet checking compliance.......