Hi, long time reader first time poster. We are a family of 6, 4 kids 7 and under. We recently sold our swan and just ordered an outback 20.64 which will be ready late Feb/early March 2017. The information on this forum has been invaluable so I thank everyone for the wealth of knowledge given. We are now searching for a new tug to tow the van with. We think we have settled on a 200 series, probably a few years old as that is what we can get for our budget. I was really looking forward to the van until I started reading up on all the weights and started getting concerned. I don't know how we can legally tow the van and all travel in the car at the same time, let alone pack anything in it. Are these vans just too heavy when you also have to factor in carrying six bodies in the car and luggage? I'm starting to think we may have made a mistake and maybe should have gone for the 18.58-2?
Just ordered 20.64
- Thread starter Lonnie
- Start date
I would doubt that you have made a wrong decision, the 200 series (according to all members who own them) will pull anything with any load. I'm sure you will get the responses from these guys that will convince you that all is well. 
Personally, I have never owned one and probably never will, (I love my BT 50) but I would not try to bag them in any way.
Personally, I have never owned one and probably never will, (I love my BT 50) but I would not try to bag them in any way.
I'm sure it can be done....as long as you are very aware of payloads on car and on van and, for safety, keep within the limits.
It's those who take a tribe, a huge amount of extras and push the van payload well beyond the limit who risk the overloading scenario.
Just be careful, know what you have and how it contributes to payload of both car and van and you'll be fine!
You might even save some money on not forking out for unnecessary extras!
And.......:welcome:
It's those who take a tribe, a huge amount of extras and push the van payload well beyond the limit who risk the overloading scenario.
Just be careful, know what you have and how it contributes to payload of both car and van and you'll be fine!
You might even save some money on not forking out for unnecessary extras!
And.......:welcome:
welcome @Lonnie
we thank you and appreciate the feed back with regards to if we are being helpful
now, your dilemmer
the 200 series is a good tow vehicle (I have been told constantly & incessantly) - major draw back is vehicle GVM
not sure of the coin involved, but maybe have a look at getting the GVM upgraded and plated
but then you would have to take ALL of the kids with you then - just kidding
as long as you dont go over board with bull bars and side steps and gawd knows what else - you should be ok
another thing I do mention occasionally is............
weight everything going into the Van.......... you really need to be aware of how much your putting in with a family that size
knives / forks / spoons / bedding / clothing / cartons of ale / food / everything
I also suggest, put a sticky dot on everything that goes into the Van
after 2 trips - anything still has a dot on it - remove from Van - not required
a suggestion
sleeping bags weigh less than 2 sheets & blanket
plastic plates as much as possible
I extra coat per person left in Van, and maybe 2 travel blankets - just in case
you yourself will know what needs to go into the Van and what does not
enjoy
we thank you and appreciate the feed back with regards to if we are being helpful
now, your dilemmer
the 200 series is a good tow vehicle (I have been told constantly & incessantly) - major draw back is vehicle GVM
not sure of the coin involved, but maybe have a look at getting the GVM upgraded and plated
but then you would have to take ALL of the kids with you then - just kidding
as long as you dont go over board with bull bars and side steps and gawd knows what else - you should be ok
another thing I do mention occasionally is............
weight everything going into the Van.......... you really need to be aware of how much your putting in with a family that size
knives / forks / spoons / bedding / clothing / cartons of ale / food / everything
I also suggest, put a sticky dot on everything that goes into the Van
after 2 trips - anything still has a dot on it - remove from Van - not required
a suggestion
sleeping bags weigh less than 2 sheets & blanket
plastic plates as much as possible
I extra coat per person left in Van, and maybe 2 travel blankets - just in case
you yourself will know what needs to go into the Van and what does not
enjoy
@Lonnie welcome to the forum as @bigcol said most people who get 200's and tow get the GVM upgrade
http://www.lovellsauto.com.au/product12d.php
We have a Disco and 4 kids and be close to payload with our 22.68 although smaller tank so carry less fuel. Yes I calculated things a few times
Also as said above you do not need to carry everything with you it also depend on your Tow Ball Mass as that is added to the vehicle payload.
We have three water tanks I can empty the front tank to loose so kilos if needed
http://www.lovellsauto.com.au/product12d.php
We have a Disco and 4 kids and be close to payload with our 22.68 although smaller tank so carry less fuel. Yes I calculated things a few times
Also as said above you do not need to carry everything with you it also depend on your Tow Ball Mass as that is added to the vehicle payload.
We have three water tanks I can empty the front tank to loose so kilos if needed
Here's another....for what it's worth.
To keep weight down and effective use of space try to choose items which have more than one use. It's amazing how that can reduce the unmentionable extras we all carry! Fewer sticky dots!
Eg.....we use a washing up bowl most of the time outside...never use the inside sink but that's us.....so that becomes the storage for cups, cutlery washing up liquid etc
Inside sink is used to store all fruit and Veges in the drying rack. Easy to move if we want to use the sink and Veges don't freeze or rot from lack of air circulation.
Another...the buckets we carry are used as buckets, obviously but also store things that can spill while travelling...toilet chemicals sit in an Ice cream container so the spillage doesn't affect water quality...Bucket is used for sullage when free camping
And....ice cream containers can be used as bowls for pancake mix, for keeping plugs for extension cords dry
And....metal mixing bowls used as bowls and, upended, as covers over a portable gas stove so it's almost an oven
Many many others! Most are just plain common sense but if you try for multi use you carry less and what you do carry, you use.
Please add to if inclined.
To keep weight down and effective use of space try to choose items which have more than one use. It's amazing how that can reduce the unmentionable extras we all carry! Fewer sticky dots!
Eg.....we use a washing up bowl most of the time outside...never use the inside sink but that's us.....so that becomes the storage for cups, cutlery washing up liquid etc
Inside sink is used to store all fruit and Veges in the drying rack. Easy to move if we want to use the sink and Veges don't freeze or rot from lack of air circulation.
Another...the buckets we carry are used as buckets, obviously but also store things that can spill while travelling...toilet chemicals sit in an Ice cream container so the spillage doesn't affect water quality...Bucket is used for sullage when free camping
And....ice cream containers can be used as bowls for pancake mix, for keeping plugs for extension cords dry
And....metal mixing bowls used as bowls and, upended, as covers over a portable gas stove so it's almost an oven
Many many others! Most are just plain common sense but if you try for multi use you carry less and what you do carry, you use.
Please add to if inclined.
Thanks everyone for the welcome and all your replies and suggestions (really like the sticky dot idea!).
I think we will have to increase the GVM of the car to even just all fit in. Most of the cars we are looking at already have bulbar, towbar side steps and roof racks which would already be eating heavily into the payload. I guess we have the option of taking off some of these extras. From my understanding this would then eat into the GCM and that is where my concern lies. With all the extras we have added to the van (including 3rd water tank) and the increase to 600kg in payload that we have requested I think we are going to be getting close to an ATM of 3300kg. Is that just too much to tow? Just want to be as safe as possible.
I think we will have to increase the GVM of the car to even just all fit in. Most of the cars we are looking at already have bulbar, towbar side steps and roof racks which would already be eating heavily into the payload. I guess we have the option of taking off some of these extras. From my understanding this would then eat into the GCM and that is where my concern lies. With all the extras we have added to the van (including 3rd water tank) and the increase to 600kg in payload that we have requested I think we are going to be getting close to an ATM of 3300kg. Is that just too much to tow? Just want to be as safe as possible.
Even if you take the full 3500kg and the car has a bar, winch, roofrack etc you still should be within the limits.
as far as being safe that comes down to you, are you a experienced tower of big trailers and are you content with going slow and steady.
No real difference between towing a 18ft and a 20ft just slow down and give yourself room.
these specs are for a brand new GXL
Kerb weight (kg) 2740 (without bull bars roof racks etc)
- Gross vehicle mass (kg) 3350 (fully fuelled and loaded including accessories, people and dogs)
- Gross combination mass (kg) 6850 (this is for both Car and Van)
- Gross trailer weight braked (kg) 3500
So a 200 series will easily tow that will all 6 of you in it legally (unless of cause you are sumo wrestlers and/or you have put every accessory under the sun on the car)
as far as being safe that comes down to you, are you a experienced tower of big trailers and are you content with going slow and steady.
No real difference between towing a 18ft and a 20ft just slow down and give yourself room.
these specs are for a brand new GXL
Kerb weight (kg) 2740 (without bull bars roof racks etc)
- Gross vehicle mass (kg) 3350 (fully fuelled and loaded including accessories, people and dogs)
- Gross combination mass (kg) 6850 (this is for both Car and Van)
- Gross trailer weight braked (kg) 3500
So a 200 series will easily tow that will all 6 of you in it legally (unless of cause you are sumo wrestlers and/or you have put every accessory under the sun on the car)
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PS: some states do not allow GVM upgrades after registration
so you may want to look into that
From my research most 200's that need GVM upgrades are kitted out to the hilt
as in have larger Fuel tanks, drawers(that are filled with everything) bash plates, bars and winches
rear bars with two spare tyres and a steel roofrack with a 4mtr tinny and 25hp motor on the roof
It is actually pretty hard to overload a 200 in a "normal" situation.
When your kids are all adults then this may be a different story though.
so you may want to look into that
From my research most 200's that need GVM upgrades are kitted out to the hilt
as in have larger Fuel tanks, drawers(that are filled with everything) bash plates, bars and winches
rear bars with two spare tyres and a steel roofrack with a 4mtr tinny and 25hp motor on the roof
It is actually pretty hard to overload a 200 in a "normal" situation.
When your kids are all adults then this may be a different story though.
you will be ok to tow the Van
as for the weight & GVM upgrade, the factory side steps are ok - I was referring to the ARB / Custom engineered type
a bull bar is neither here nore there in the overall scheme of things really - if the one your looking at has one - great, if it does not - great
@yabbietol has fitted a "Smart Bar" on his - I do not know of the weight, but assume they are slightly lighter than the Steel ones
have a look here
so all is not lost
as @NoWorries said - unless you are Sumo Wrestlers - you should be ok
as for the weight & GVM upgrade, the factory side steps are ok - I was referring to the ARB / Custom engineered type
a bull bar is neither here nore there in the overall scheme of things really - if the one your looking at has one - great, if it does not - great
@yabbietol has fitted a "Smart Bar" on his - I do not know of the weight, but assume they are slightly lighter than the Steel ones
have a look here
so all is not lost
as @NoWorries said - unless you are Sumo Wrestlers - you should be ok
Thanks everyone, feeling a little better about the whole thing. Probably just overthinking it all. Was just worried about only having roughly 600kg payload in the car minus around 280kg towball weight that only leaves 320kg for fuel, 6 bodies (luckily not sumo size @NoWorries ) and a bit of luggage.
Not the most experienced at towing as have only towed the swan. More than happy to take it slow and steady. Planning to do a towing course which should help.
Thanks for the information on the smart bar @bigcol, will have to look into it if we get one without a bulbar.
Talked to the dealer today, haven't done the final sign off so we might have the option to swap to a 18.58 if we really wanted to. There's a lot to like on the 20.64 so its a tough decision. Those that have over 20' vans, do you find it restrictive at all? Thought we had all this sorted when we ordered!
Not the most experienced at towing as have only towed the swan. More than happy to take it slow and steady. Planning to do a towing course which should help.
Thanks for the information on the smart bar @bigcol, will have to look into it if we get one without a bulbar.
Talked to the dealer today, haven't done the final sign off so we might have the option to swap to a 18.58 if we really wanted to. There's a lot to like on the 20.64 so its a tough decision. Those that have over 20' vans, do you find it restrictive at all? Thought we had all this sorted when we ordered!
if your looking for a car @Lonnie
one of the members on here @warren cook works for a dealer - he may be able to help you - finding - or info about.......
one of the members on here @warren cook works for a dealer - he may be able to help you - finding - or info about.......
I pull a 23'6" (30' tip to tail) Nova Vita, 2.8t, with a dual cab 2.8l diesel Holden Colorado, and have no problems. I'm advised (by the Holden dealer...but he is my nephew, so I'm trusting his word) that the Colorado is right up with the best vehicles out there, considering all the towing factors.
In regard to your weight concerns we are still learning too, as we've only made two trips in the few months we've had it. But, a few things we have learnt quickly...all disposable plates, bowls, etc, and, if you're going to caravan parks you don't need water in your tanks, but if you're going to camp by the river somewhere, don't fill your water tanks until you get close to where you're staying. After all, one full tank of water wouldn't be too far short of the weight of the four kids!
Thanks Tuppy Some good tips there. We mostly do caravan parks at the moment with the occasional weekend away free camping. Hopefully get into a bit more free camping as the kids get older.
Got the paperwork sent today for the final sign off. Looks like we're sticking with the 20.64. Might be a steep learning curve but I'm sure we'll love it.
Can I ask why people get the jockey wheel inside the A frame? What are the benefits? Still obviously have a lot to learn.
Got the paperwork sent today for the final sign off. Looks like we're sticking with the 20.64. Might be a steep learning curve but I'm sure we'll love it.
Can I ask why people get the jockey wheel inside the A frame? What are the benefits? Still obviously have a lot to learn.
A couple of reasons,
1) the van is not twisted by the load being taken centrally rather than one side.
2)The jockey wheel does not interfere with the WDH (if used) when taking the load off the ball to remove the bars.
They are the reasons I asked for it to be centred on my Journey but Jayco would not do it.