The major difference for vehicle LPG is the tax, we used to fill the barbie bottles from the same tank that we filled the forklifts from, the fellas that supplied the Gas would fill our big tank in one yard which was for the forks and then go to the other yard and fill the big tank which was for forks, HWS and kitchen. The forks tanks have a differn't pick up so you can't use them for barbies. Did a course for filling gas appliances years ago so I didn't blow things up, but have to buy it nowadays.
Interior Filling gas bottles
- Thread starter blacky
- Start date
This info was obtained from Whirlpool where there was a discussion about using Autogas in BBQ gas situations.
Can a qualified Gas person confirm or otherwise this info?
Would really like to have a definitive answer.
"Auto Gas differs from LPG (the BBQ stuff) in a few ways but by far the most important is the mix of Butane and propane. In LPG the propane quantity is higher.
These two gasses combined with some other components, depending on the application go into making up the family of fuels we know as Auto Gas and LPG. In Auto Gas, the ratio of butane is higher than Propane.
This has a few effects on the device that we operate, and can have some serious repercussions. Primarily, the Mix of Fuel and Air in a car Auto Gas manifold system is significantly different to a home BBQ manifold and using the wrong type of gas can cause predictable side effects. At best, the device wont operate at peak efficiency and can cause issues with how it operates, like difficulty in starting in the case of a BBQ, insufficient heat generated and constantly going out. Particularly if the device is old and poorly maintained. When was the last time you had a look at the burners under your BBQ?
The other side of the coin is that the mismatch can also manifest as a dangerous mix depending on conditions and become far more volatile than intended. In the case of Home BBQ s and Auto Gas, you can easily find yourself in a situation where the BBQ generates higher heat than it is designed for and all of a sudden you have a fire that is difficult to control and almost impossible to extinguish without the right extinguisher. And lets face it: How many people have a fire extinguisher near the BBQ. That's the difference altering the fuel air mixture can make as any budding vehicle mechanic knows.
This information was from some training material I have from a course I attended on the subject a few years ago. Its freely available on the web and a quick search of legitimate sites will probably bring it up
(PS: The previous links I posted no longer work, sorry, try this link instead from Kleenheat WA)
http://www.kleenheat.com.au/gas/about-kleenheat/safety/SDS.aspx
These can be a little ambiguous if your not used to them, but the key is in the Application of a standard, where in this case the LPG (BBQ) meets AS4670:2006 which makes it certified for heating purposes. Auto gas does not."
Anyone?
Can a qualified Gas person confirm or otherwise this info?
Would really like to have a definitive answer.
"Auto Gas differs from LPG (the BBQ stuff) in a few ways but by far the most important is the mix of Butane and propane. In LPG the propane quantity is higher.
These two gasses combined with some other components, depending on the application go into making up the family of fuels we know as Auto Gas and LPG. In Auto Gas, the ratio of butane is higher than Propane.
This has a few effects on the device that we operate, and can have some serious repercussions. Primarily, the Mix of Fuel and Air in a car Auto Gas manifold system is significantly different to a home BBQ manifold and using the wrong type of gas can cause predictable side effects. At best, the device wont operate at peak efficiency and can cause issues with how it operates, like difficulty in starting in the case of a BBQ, insufficient heat generated and constantly going out. Particularly if the device is old and poorly maintained. When was the last time you had a look at the burners under your BBQ?
The other side of the coin is that the mismatch can also manifest as a dangerous mix depending on conditions and become far more volatile than intended. In the case of Home BBQ s and Auto Gas, you can easily find yourself in a situation where the BBQ generates higher heat than it is designed for and all of a sudden you have a fire that is difficult to control and almost impossible to extinguish without the right extinguisher. And lets face it: How many people have a fire extinguisher near the BBQ. That's the difference altering the fuel air mixture can make as any budding vehicle mechanic knows.
This information was from some training material I have from a course I attended on the subject a few years ago. Its freely available on the web and a quick search of legitimate sites will probably bring it up
(PS: The previous links I posted no longer work, sorry, try this link instead from Kleenheat WA)
http://www.kleenheat.com.au/gas/about-kleenheat/safety/SDS.aspx
These can be a little ambiguous if your not used to them, but the key is in the Application of a standard, where in this case the LPG (BBQ) meets AS4670:2006 which makes it certified for heating purposes. Auto gas does not."
Anyone?
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Tried to do some difinitive research about the difference between Auto gas LPG and LPG as used in the van bottles.
Only thing I could find is that the Auto gas is a blend of Propane ~55% to Butane ~45% and that LPG for gas bottles is >95% Propane and <5% Butane. As to whether one is no good for vans or not, no real answer, seems depending on where you are determines what you get with one locations putting Autogas in LPG bottles.
Even read from a gas supplier site that because of temp of storage characteristics that in Qld & NT, a higher mix of butane is used whereas in the southern states, yes mainly Propane.
There seem to a number (lge) of vanners that use Autogas in there van cylinders.
Would still like someone who really know to give a difinitive answer and verify or otherwise clarify whether safe to use in vans. Marv
Only thing I could find is that the Auto gas is a blend of Propane ~55% to Butane ~45% and that LPG for gas bottles is >95% Propane and <5% Butane. As to whether one is no good for vans or not, no real answer, seems depending on where you are determines what you get with one locations putting Autogas in LPG bottles.
Even read from a gas supplier site that because of temp of storage characteristics that in Qld & NT, a higher mix of butane is used whereas in the southern states, yes mainly Propane.
There seem to a number (lge) of vanners that use Autogas in there van cylinders.
Would still like someone who really know to give a difinitive answer and verify or otherwise clarify whether safe to use in vans. Marv
Youv'e stirred the memory @Marv_mart and I do recall what youv'e posted about the blends being part of the course I did which was a bit like the DG course, tick the box to get the ticket, anyway I do recall that the burners had to be set up on heaters, stoves etc to match the gas, applies for LPG and LNG etc otherwise they may not burn properly but never noticed it at work on the barbie cooking with forklift gas...............but I have seen the same truck topping up the autogas tank as well as the chip shop tanks so who knows.
@Marv_mart . The other difference from memory is both butane and propane have different vaporisation temperatures. Approximately Propane vaporises down to near minus 40 deg C. Butane is at zero deg C. (that is when the liquid boils and gives off the gas). So butane doesn't boil in cold weather = poor or no gas in cold weather.
That is why auto gas is a mix, and the mix is different depending on time of year. Ever heard stories of people saying their gas car wont start because it is too cold. Maybe due to more butane in the mix.
One reason for the cost difference is because Propane is like premium gas and butane is a poor cousin. We also have oodles of butane in Australia.
So in a caravan, imagine someone who tried to be cheap and do the wrong thing by filling their bottles with autogas. If the weather was minus 5 deg C, they go to use their gas appliance which may have a faulty safety device or no safety device. the symptom will be they have run out of gas, so they leave the appliance and go to bed. But if the appliance was not turned off, when the bottles warm up in the morning, the gas will comeback on. See how dangerous it could be. Now you need the perfect storm for bad things like this to happen, but why even attempt using auto gas in the first place.
Just get your bottles filled properly with the correct gas.
That is why auto gas is a mix, and the mix is different depending on time of year. Ever heard stories of people saying their gas car wont start because it is too cold. Maybe due to more butane in the mix.
One reason for the cost difference is because Propane is like premium gas and butane is a poor cousin. We also have oodles of butane in Australia.
So in a caravan, imagine someone who tried to be cheap and do the wrong thing by filling their bottles with autogas. If the weather was minus 5 deg C, they go to use their gas appliance which may have a faulty safety device or no safety device. the symptom will be they have run out of gas, so they leave the appliance and go to bed. But if the appliance was not turned off, when the bottles warm up in the morning, the gas will comeback on. See how dangerous it could be. Now you need the perfect storm for bad things like this to happen, but why even attempt using auto gas in the first place.
Just get your bottles filled properly with the correct gas.
Thanks for that info, makes sense of my previous post where NT & Qld tend to have higher Butane levels, warmer climes and cheaper to supply as butane is cheaper. Will stick with Propane refills from my local Mitre10. Will always be willing to pay a bit more and be completely 'safe'. Does make me wander what mixture I have in the bottle I had filled up in Noosa.
I do know which bottle that is tho, currently my reserve.
I believe that is one way to separate a Butane/Propane mix, cooling to just below oC at low pressure allows the liquid butane to be siphoned off.