20' Series Car / Caravan Height and Suspension Setup Advice

[Matt Brown]

Hi,

Im looking at getting my new van and car ride height correct and safe. I wont be getting a WDH and want things to be as perfect as can be for safe driving and long term reduction of mechnical wear and tear.

Ive just recently picked up a new Expanda 20.64-1 OB and are towing with a 2015 LC200 GXL Diesel with bullbar, roof racks, single drawer and family of 5.

On first connection of the van, the rear of the car sunk substantially but was fairly level for towing.

Unconnected: Front = 500mm. Rear = 550mm
Connected: Front = 510mm Rear = 500mm.

The weight on the towball was 270kg on a standard 350kg max Toyota 50mm ball hitch. (therefore 77% of max). I thought that seemed reasonable but the person weighing it for me was a bit aghast! Is this a significant weight??

The car tow ball is 30mm low from the caravan being perfectly level so I guess it is riding on the front axle a little. That was unloaded (no kids) but had full front and rear water tanks in the van. I think this is acceptable?...just not perfect?

Today I've received advice, (by a 4x4 mech/saleman) to upgrade to Old Man Emu Suspension based on the fact that:
1/ there was significant sag in the rear. (50mm).
2/ there is only about another 50mm clearance above the rear suspension hard bump stop.
3/ that we still have to fit a single drawer and load the 3 kids etc.

The upgrade may raise the towball after loading to about 10mm above the caravan being perfectly horizontal.

Not taking cost into consideration, do you think upgrading the suspension will be beneficial in light of the figures provided, for damage prevention and safe driving? Will the rise take some of the weight off the towball?

PS: I am not adding a WDH.

Thanks in advance.

Regards

Browny

 

[The escapist]

Hi Browny,

Unfortunately, raising suspension will not change your towball weight. Even if the ball is raised by 50mm, it's not going to make a big difference to the ball weight.

I'd suggest you try shuffling some stuff inside the van around to shift weight more over the vans axles. That should help reduce ball weight.

Have you considered airbags? Again, they won't change ball weight but will assist in levelling the car somewhat when loaded

What's your objection to a weight distribution hitch?

Daz

 

[Drover]

Well going by what you described firstly I would be reloading the van to decrease the ball weight some just because the tow ball cap is 350kg doesn't mean thats a good weight..........somewhere around 230 -240 be better.................replacing original suspension with decent springs and shocks is always a good idea when not wanting to use a WDH, in fact it's a good idea even if you use one, airbags can be used to assist but should never be used to cover poor suspension thats how chassis bend.
I would say go for the suspension as you will most certainly find you will bounce down the road without a WDH..........while ARB is good gear there are others just as good but less expensive.
BIg Mal drops the back of The Ute 15mm and it's no light weight.

As @The escapist said Whats the objection to a WDH.?

 

[WHHEMI]

With the back of the car dropping that much you need a suspension upgrade or wdh, possibly both, personally I wouldn't tow something with that much ball weight on the stock suspension, I'm not a big fan of a wdh as I think suspension setup is a better option, but recenty used one on our grand cherokee towing our 17.55.8 OB journey, and it was definatly better although not a lot, Jeep has 50mm lift with HD springs f/r.

 

[davemc]

What is the ATM of the van? I know our ball weight is around 260-270 fully loaded and our ATM is 2780. So thats around 10%.
I have 2 front water tanks and 1 rear tank and I can reduce TBM by not filling up one front tank.
Although the van tows well so have not bothered.

If the back is sagging yes airbags or better springs. Most cars are not setup out of the factory to tow.

 

[Matt Brown]

Thanks a lot for your replies. Big help. I will go ahead with suspension upgrade, test run, drop the water out of the front tank and test run again and decide if further action is needed.

 

[NoWorries]

I have a 18foot with about 220 on the ball and the factory suspension on my 2016 GXL used to come down by about 30mm
I put airbags in pump them to 25 and this has fixed that issue but I will be putting 200kg upgraded rear springs in soon (putting 2 engels in the back of the car)
I don't use a WDH

Your Towball weight seems to be about perfect for your size van as it will be about 3 ton loaded and tow ball should be about 8-10 % of that to be safe.

 

[Matt Brown]

PS: WDH objection questions. -- I have no objection. I shouldn't have said I "wont be getting one". Ive just been spending the time to research and look objectively at the PROS and CONS before committing and doing some first test tows. I see benefits and downsides but will try and spare everyone another debate on the matter. I may purchase one if I feel the need. In the end, even if I purchase a WDH, I think I will be better having the knowledge of knowing how the tow reacts and feels under certain conditions without one. Ill do Suspension / shocks #1 and then look at WDH #2.

 

[Matt Brown]

I have a 18foot with about 220 on the ball and the factory suspension on my 2016 GXL used to come down by about 30mm
I put airbags in pump them to 25 and this has fixed that issue but I will be putting 200kg upgraded rear springs in soon (putting 2 engels in the back of the car)
I don't use a WDH

Your Towball weight seems to be about perfect for your size van as it will be about 3 ton loaded and tow ball should be about 8-10 % of that to be safe.

Thanks!

 

[facemir]

I am just about to be in the same situation as you. New 18.58-2CL OB (Weight 2710Kg) coming in August towing with a LC200 and wanted to know why you do not want to use a WDH
I am still undecided about a WDH, was looking at the Andersen WDH from Titan Brakes, but I am still trying to research Pros and Cons of the use of a WDH.

 

[Drover]

I went the same way @Matt Brown when I got Big Mal, I had upgraded my suspension and added a bit of lift. with Big Mal and The Ute loaded nicely they sat level, traveled really well on rural and dirt roads but I found on the well made multi lane highways with a bit of wind around doing nearly a $ , the front end would get a bit twitchy.......On undulating roads where it could start to porpoise it didn't and had me beat until I worked out that high speed, very smooth road the air passing underneath The Ute was lifting the front and with the lift I was running out of suspension extension so added the WDH, I have no floating feeling now.............It was cheaper than a winch, just not as cool.

 

[Clewsy]

Have you done the sums to see if the lc200 needs a gvm upgrade as well, you might close to your limit?

I've got a spreadsheet that might help but I can't upload it for some reason, not letting me upload excel documents. Happy to email to anyone.

I used it to help decide what vehicle to buy and WDH effects on the axles.

 

[Smirke]

We have the 21-64 OB and tow with a 2016 cruiser and have 4 boys (10 - 16). we got the car lifted (2") , got heavy duty suspension as well as airbags. We also don't have a WDH. We had to drop the ball as the car was too high for the van. Both travel well and are pretty level (we did 23000km last year around Oz as well as the Gibb). Only problem we had was the bar was a bit small for the receiver on the car so moved a bit, but this was enough to make the van push the car around, scary stuff. Did a quick fix by wedging a bit of metal between the two. Now its as solid as a rock and doesn't move a bit.

 

[Matt Brown]

Have you done the sums to see if the lc200 needs a gvm upgrade as well, you might close to your limit?

I've got a spreadsheet that might help but I can't upload it for some reason, not letting me upload excel documents. Happy to email to anyone.

I used it to help decide what vehicle to buy and WDH effects on the axles.

Yep done the sums and its looking a bit dodgy so will arrange about 280kg GVM upgrade on the OME suspension. Thanks for your help. Never had to worry about this stuff towing the little Jayco Hawk around...ha ha.

 

[Matt Brown]

We have the 21-64 OB and tow with a 2016 cruiser and have 4 boys (10 - 16). we got the car lifted (2") , got heavy duty suspension as well as airbags. We also don't have a WDH. We had to drop the ball as the car was too high for the van. Both travel well and are pretty level (we did 23000km last year around Oz as well as the Gibb). Only problem we had was the bar was a bit small for the receiver on the car so moved a bit, but this was enough to make the van push the car around, scary stuff. Did a quick fix by wedging a bit of metal between the two. Now its as solid as a rock and doesn't move a bit.

Thanks.

 

[Matt Brown]

I went the same way @Matt Brown when I got Big Mal, I had upgraded my suspension and added a bit of lift. with Big Mal and The Ute loaded nicely they sat level, traveled really well on rural and dirt roads but I found on the well made multi lane highways with a bit of wind around doing nearly a $ , the front end would get a bit twitchy.......On undulating roads where it could start to porpoise it didn't and had me beat until I worked out that high speed, very smooth road the air passing underneath The Ute was lifting the front and with the lift I was running out of suspension extension so added the WDH, I have no floating feeling now.............It was cheaper than a winch, just not as cool.

Thanks. Good info to put in the memory bank.

 

[Matt Brown]

I have a 18foot with about 220 on the ball and the factory suspension on my 2016 GXL used to come down by about 30mm
I put airbags in pump them to 25 and this has fixed that issue but I will be putting 200kg upgraded rear springs in soon (putting 2 engels in the back of the car)
I don't use a WDH

Your Towball weight seems to be about perfect for your size van as it will be about 3 ton loaded and tow ball should be about 8-10 % of that to be safe.

Thank You