ANOTHER WDH question!

[POD]

Long time lurker, first time poster!

We have a Discovery 17.55.3 Outback. And, just quietly, we LOVE it!

Anyway, the coupling on it is very low and then when hooked up to the HR WDH we have, it has to be extremely low to be able to accommodate it all. I'm sure you know what I mean.

My question is this: I was going to get a new plate welded on top of the A frame to lift up the coupling. So:

1. Can I do it legally? (Regarding ADR heights)

2. Has anyone done it and do the WDH bars foul on the side of the A frame when turning etc?

3. If you've done it and you have a WDH, can you PLEASE take a picture of it and post it up?

Thanks guys.

 

[Brad]

Howdy POD and welcome to the forum.
Jayco sell spacers if you need to lift the ball height.
I am a tad concerned about the second question because the bars should sit below the A frame. Perhaps a pic would help here.
What are you towing with?

 

[Pace]

POD, welcome to the forum, i knew i'd seen this on the forum, have a look through the following link, you'll see the riser hitch block available from jayco canberra, or you get the idea of what i think you are after. cheers Pace.

http://www.expandasdownunder.com/showthread.php/667-Hitch-Height/page2?highlight=hitch+block

 

[POD]

Thanks for the welcome, guys. I hope I'm able to contribute in some meaningful way!

The spacers - I looked at them and would prefer to go with the welded plate on top if at all possible, thinking that it will lift it 125 mm instead of only 50mm. I'm not saying I WON'T go with the spacer, just exploring options to make sure I choose the correct one first up.

I too am a little wary of the bars being beside the draw bar as opposed to below it, hence my question. The reason I ask is this: have a look at this towing guide ( http://www.haymanreese.com.au/safertowing/HR_Towingguide.htm ), in particular point number 6. See how the torsion (or is is truncheon?) bars start of at the tow ball end at the same sort of height as the tow ball. AND the coupling is on the top of the draw bar. Would the bars in the set up shown in the guide actually foul on the draw bar or can they never turn around that far to actually touch (I'm CR@P at physics as you can probably tell!)

Also, if you look at the HR home page ( http://www.haymanreese.com.au/index.htm ), scroll down to where the video link is, and you can see that these bars sit almost perpendicular to the draw bar. Mine sit on a hideous angle, sloping from the coupling downwards, obviously, to the point where I could only attach the chains on the last link. I was forever scraping on speed humps and such.

The issues I am quoting were when I was towing the van with a lifted Jeep Wrangler. This has now been replaced with a Navara. I am yet to hitch up with the Navara because I wanted to sort all of this out first. I want the whole set up to be higher and, if possible, drive WITHOUT the WDH, but I don't think I can!

I live in Maitland (near Newcastle) so if anyone can recommend a specialist tow bar dude that they have used and reckon is tops, then let me know, I may have to go and see them.

 

[POD]

Another top response. Thanks heaps AJC.

I just hitched up the van with no WDH. Here are the photos:







So here are the measurements hitched up:

FRONT 91 cm, REAR 87.5 cm

And unhitched:

FRONT 90 cm, REAR 92 cm.

Now these weights are WITHOUT the extras that will be added to the back of the Navara (canopy, beer, drawers, beer, beer fridge, beer, recovery gear, beer, etc, beer) so I expect that the rear will drop somewhat when that all gets inserted.

I think the best thing is to speak to a "professional" but then who do you trust without them trying to bloody sell you something else that you MUST have???

 

[Burnsy]

G'day POD, welcome mate! I have a HR WDH also and find it very good, standard suspension and polyairs. You mention about your angle of bars and only reaching last link, this is where your angle adjustment with the cam washers come into play. It sounds like you need to angle more towards the front of car, this will lift bars up and give you more clearance.

This might take a bit of mucking around to find right angle, just make sure you leave the minimum amount of links in chain, 4 or 5 I think but instructions tell you. Either way as said you need to get ball height right first then play with angle.

Cheers.

 

[Sterlo1]

Hi, I had a similar problem and resolved it by getting the plate welded onto the top of the A-Frame. With my 200 series cruiser to get the sterling OB level I had to have the hitch set very low and I could not reverse the van over the roll gutter. The HR hang very low on the bottom of the hitch. I contacted a couple of Jayco (Sydney and Newcastle)dealers but they were unhelpful and gave me the name of engineering firms to contact and have the spacer blocks made up. The problem with spacer blocks is that the handbrake would also have to be modified as it would the hit on the coupling plate on the bottom.
I made a template and took it to a local engineering firm who made up a 10mm plate. They came out to my place and welded it on. I also removed the angle iron handbrake connector on the underside to give the A-Frame more clearance.
Yes, in my case the Hayman Reese WDH interferred with the A-frame and I could not use it.
I bought a Ez-Lift WDH which has the bent bars that swing under the A-Frame.

 

[ROnEM]

POD,

As you can see from the pic below, even with the raised 17-56-2 OB model, I have the typical "Land Cruiser 200 Weight Distribution Snow Plough" that AJC is referring to.

Putting the 50mm riser blocks under the hitch gives me only a 7" clearance from road surface to bottom of WDH bars, so seriously thinking about the welded plate at the top of the draw bar.

Some have advised that when on dirt/sand tracks and you are not travelling with any real speed to take of the WDH bars, but this still leaves the excessive drop hitch to hit the ground. Hate for it to catch something and bend the receiver on the car chassis!



Cheers,

Rohan

 

[ROnEM]

Sterlo1,

Nice one!

Exactly what I am looking to do to ours.

Same package - LC200 & Outback Expanda, so no need to ask is anyone has the same set-up.

As we have the HR Standard WDH that drops/curves down, so they should not have any issues with the OB's bigger draw bar.

Looks like the Vans off the the local engineering firm when we get back from the Tassie trip.

Cheers,

Rohan

 

[POD]

OK, so I stuffed around for nearly a whole day and I got the shorter shank onto the car and measured it all up and tried it and I reckon I've got it almost sussed, with the WDH fitted and not as "wound up" as I had it on the Jeep. I also think I'm going to have another play with it when my knuckles have all healed up and they're ready to be skun again!

thanks everyone for your help and input, it is greatly appreciated!

:grouphug:

 

[POD]

POD,

As you can see from the pic below, even with the raised 17-56-2 OB model, I have the typical "Land Cruiser 200 Weight Distribution Snow Plough" that AJC is referring to.

Putting the 50mm riser blocks under the hitch gives me only a 7" clearance from road surface to bottom of WDH bars, so seriously thinking about the welded plate at the top of the draw bar.

Some have advised that when on dirt/sand tracks and you are not travelling with any real speed to take of the WDH bars, but this still leaves the excessive drop hitch to hit the ground. Hate for it to catch something and bend the receiver on the car chassis!

View attachment 11260

Cheers,

Rohan

As an aside, this, RO, your's is even worse than what mine was in the Jeep.

PLEASE don't take this personally, it's not meant to be, but that looks dangerous to me. And I also thought the chains were meant to cross underneath the hitch??

 

[ROnEM]

As an aside, this, RO, your's is even worse than what mine was in the Jeep.

PLEASE don't take this personally, it's not meant to be, but that looks dangerous to me. And I also thought the chains were meant to cross underneath the hitch??

POD,

No offence taken...

That pic was taken when we got home after picking up the van where the dealer measured, sold, fitted and set-up the HR WDH.

I cross my chains as a matter of course and yes, I consider it "a non-optimal" set-up, hence why the desire to weld a new plate on top of the draw bar and move the hitch up, then redo the drop hitch, etc.

Also looking to put a bull-bar on, new suspension - Old Man Emu - raise the front by 50mm and put air-bags in the rear. this should also stop any further "sag" in the rear end (of the car)!

 

[straydingo]

The size of that drop looks like mine was on the Pathfinder too. Although, it was still low, just the 50mm packer was a huge difference.
Looking at the photo, if you weld a plate across the top is the hitch then going to be too high for the highest sitting of the WDH drop shank.
(I sold mine recently so can't remember if the shorter shank also has holes higher than the one in the picture)

 

[ROnEM]

straydingo,

The plan is evolving...

Want to put a bull bar on, new suspension - Old Man Emu - raise front by 50mm to fix front rake, airbags at rear, lift hitch on van via new plate, get rid of the current long drop "snow plough/grader/tyne" shank and replace it with the original Hayman Reece hitch for the WDH.

I am really sick of bottoming out and worried about the potential damage/bending to the tow hitch/shank receiver at the back of the car.

 

[macca]

POD,

As you can see from the pic below, even with the raised 17-56-2 OB model, I have the typical "Land Cruiser 200 Weight Distribution Snow Plough" that AJC is referring to.

Putting the 50mm riser blocks under the hitch gives me only a 7" clearance from road surface to bottom of WDH bars, so seriously thinking about the welded plate at the top of the draw bar.

Some have advised that when on dirt/sand tracks and you are not travelling with any real speed to take of the WDH bars, but this still leaves the excessive drop hitch to hit the ground. Hate for it to catch something and bend the receiver on the car chassis!

View attachment 11260

Cheers,

Rohan

I am in the process of fitting an Eazlift wdh to my van. I have been told by the Jayco man that I need 430mm centre of ball to ground! Does that sound right. Mine is about 490-500 at the moment and the Jayco spares guy has told me to drop a few holes to get it lower, but it sits pretty level at this height. (mazda BT50 standard height and normal 16-49-4) Did not want to steal post but I had a search and it came up.

Cheers Geoff

 

[Burnsy]

I am in the process of fitting an Eazlift wdh to my van. I have been told by the Jayco man that I need 430mm centre of ball to ground! Does that sound right. Mine is about 490-500 at the moment and the Jayco spares guy has told me to drop a few holes to get it lower, but it sits pretty level at this height. (mazda BT50 standard height and normal 16-49-4) Did not want to steal post but I had a search and it came up.

Cheers Geoff

I recon the correct height is where ever it is level, to many variables to have a standard imo.

Cheers.

 

[cruza driver]

I am in the process of fitting an Eazlift wdh to my van. I have been told by the Jayco man that I need 430mm centre of ball to ground! Does that sound right. Mine is about 490-500 at the moment and the Jayco spares guy has told me to drop a few holes to get it lower, but it sits pretty level at this height. (mazda BT50 standard height and normal 16-49-4) Did not want to steal post but I had a search and it came up.

Cheers Geoff

I had my Expanda on the back of my BT over the last few days and its also sits level also at the moment without any suspension mods. If it was me I would leave it where it is too like Burnsy mentioned. I don't have a wdh and it towed beautifully.

 

[Brad]

I recon the correct height is where ever it is level, to many variables to have a standard imo.

Cheers.

I agree... I wonder if the height they gave you just happens to be the height the tow ball needs to be for a close to level van.

 

[Ligedy]

I am in the process of fitting an Eazlift wdh to my van. I have been told by the Jayco man that I need 430mm centre of ball to ground! Does that sound right. Mine is about 490-500 at the moment and the Jayco spares guy has told me to drop a few holes to get it lower, but it sits pretty level at this height. (mazda BT50 standard height and normal 16-49-4) Did not want to steal post but I had a search and it came up.

Cheers Geoff

I've also been told by different Jayco dealers different heights for the towballs/coupling height on the draw bar when asking to have the coupling raised at the factory. The dealer I purchased from, said that Jayco manufacture to the Australian standard for tow ball heights and will not put in a spacer or weld the plate to the top of the draw bar at the factory...

So… I looked up AS4177 - Caravan and Light Trailer Towing Components.

I have attached a diagram from AS.4177.1 - it shows the centre of tow ball height between 350 – 460mm from ground level when the vehicle is laden. Therefore, I gather the hitch will be in this height region out of the factory to comply with the standard.



I think is may also have something to do to with the angle of movement required for trailer couplings (AS4177.2) which is as follows for angle of movement: The coupling body, when coupled to a towball complying with AS 4177.2, shall be capable of being tilted to an angle of 20 degrees in any direction from that required for straight forward and level movement.

My assumption is that there is the potential for restricting coupling movement when you raise or lower the towball height out of this region (to extreme variations) BUT you do NOT alter the van hitch to be on the same height or level (or when you go to hitch up to a trailer set at the standard height….).

I.e. Towball way too low - the hitch/draw bar is angled down towards the tug thus coupling strikes on the front edge of the towball tongue not allowing full 20 degrees of upward travel at the van
vs. Towball way too high the hitch/draw bar is angled up towards the tug thus coupling strikes on the rear edge of the towball tongue not allowing full 20 degreess of downward travel at the van

I'm in the process of purchasing a Eazlift WDH for when my van arrives and I tend agree with the latest replies that a level van and tow ball height to suit is the best option. Thus, my second assumption - that if you raise the towball height, just raise the hitch so it’s at the same level for no dramas… this is what I will be doing to maximise ground clearance with the WDH fitted.

The reason I have been looking into this is because I have a rather steep drive to back the van up (starting at road level across the kerb then up) so I don’t want the WDH to catch, and a Hyland hitch may provide better articulation in my case since it offers better that the standard movement.

 

[Burnsy]

Hi Ligedy, it might be best to remove your WDH bars before backing up so you don't add extra stress.

Cheers.