Toolbox

[garfield28]

G'day all,

Next on the to do list I believe is a toolbox for the drawbar.

Couple of questions

Do I need to remove the spare wheel, I believe I do but then where do I put it please? I think I read somewhere that someone made few modifications to where it is on the drawbar so was able to leave it where it was and was still able to remove the wheel somehow even with the toolbox on it.

Gas bottle. Do I need to have it professionally done to move it inside the toolbox or is there another way I can go about it without having to fork out more money to have a gas plumber come and move it inside the box? And what do I do with the current bracket that is welded onto the side of the drawbar now that houses the gas bottle, can I or do I cut and grind that off? I'm not sure if I did do that, that would be good for the integrity of the drawbar.

I have seen a toolbox on sale for nearly $500 it is 1400 long by 500 x 500 with the corners cut off sort of following the drawbar shape if you know what I mean. I'd love to be able to add it as I could store my baby q in there plus a few odds and ends and also my diesel heater tank. I have read if I add that weight to the front by putting the tyre on the back it can help balance out the weight so my towball weight will be within the tolerance.

As always, any advice much appreciated

Thanks
Geoff

 

[Drover]

I don't like boxes on the front myself, I think they just put a lot of load on the ball weight BUT many do it, easy to suddenly find you have an extra 60kgs on the ball, first off make sure that where you want it is at minimum 900 mm behind the tow hitch otherwise you stand a good chance of smacking the back of the tug into when turning tight.
If the spare wheel is mounted between the rails then it has to be moved, setting it up underneath at the rear underneath on a winder is the best way or on a rack mounted on the rear bar, drop down if you have a bed end there, see my 14.44 thread as I did both, prefer underneath myself, how many flats do you have really..... it helps balance out the extra weight of the box with junk.

Gas bottles in a box need to comply with certain regs as to venting and what can share the storage space, bottles must not have anything packed around them..

Mounting the box to draw bar should be done using "U" bolts the less welding to a draw bar the better...........

There are a number of threads covering the subjects but be very aware of the room needed for turning, the weight also the deflection of rocks back at the tug, boxes should be welded not rivetted.............. MRT (Mates Rates Tools) does a good line of alloy boxes which are sturdy and well built....

 

[Hitting the road]

Mine had a smaller metal tool box fitted to the draw bar when I bought it, all the tarps and extra covers are kept in it...very handy. Weight wise would probably add maybe 30kg tops inc box and contents. I do have a couple of Gerry's mounted on the back which would compensate if I filled them. I just leave them empty the majority of the time. The ball weight is around 220kg as it is so all good.

There is no way for me to fit a bigger box anyway as it would then be in the way of the "boot" opening. It is nothing like what garfield is looking to do size wise...
The Jayco Journey Outback I've found doesn't really have a lot of spare storage space, the front "boot' really is it externally...and even then on one side it has the 2 x 9kg gas bottles so that only leaves the other half for "stuff". I do need to tidy it up as it is like a dogs breakfast in there...
I have a length of poly pipe slung in front of the rear bumper for extra support poles and fishing rods.

The stone guard I fitted now fits snugly between the tool box and the jockey wheel...(not in this photo) For me though being the gas bottles are in the front boot no need to move them
Our mini Jumbuck BBQ lives in a canvas bag at the foot of the bed underneath where the frame juts out over the base in the Jayco, fits nice and snug out of the way....when arriving on site it comes out as gets used anyway as i don't ever cook inside the van.

 

[garfield28]

I don't like boxes on the front myself, I think they just put a lot of load on the ball weight BUT many do it, easy to suddenly find you have an extra 60kgs on the ball, first off make sure that where you want it is at minimum 900 mm behind the tow hitch otherwise you stand a good chance of smacking the back of the tug into when turning tight.
If the spare wheel is mounted between the rails then it has to be moved, setting it up underneath at the rear underneath on a winder is the best way or on a rack mounted on the rear bar, drop down if you have a bed end there, see my 14.44 thread as I did both, prefer underneath myself, how many flats do you have really..... it helps balance out the extra weight of the box with junk.

Gas bottles in a box need to comply with certain regs as to venting and what can share the storage space, bottles must not have anything packed around them..

Mounting the box to draw bar should be done using "U" bolts the less welding to a draw bar the better...........

There are a number of threads covering the subjects but be very aware of the room needed for turning, the weight also the deflection of rocks back at the tug, boxes should be welded not rivetted.............. MRT (Mates Rates Tools) does a good line of alloy boxes which are sturdy and well built....

Thanks Drover

I sort of don't want it but do, I don't because of the money I'll have to fork out and also I'll be messing about creating more work on it, I'll also be digging into the pockets again, but I do want somewhere to mount my diesel heater tank and it will be handy for storing bits and pieces as well as hopefully the weber Q as it doesn't fit in the tunnel boot.

I have seen that the bottles are locked in a separate compartment, I can do that but do I need a gas plumber to put them in the box for me?

Thanks

Mine had a smaller metal tool box fitted to the draw bar when I bought it, all the tarps and extra covers are kept in it...very handy. Weight wise would probably add maybe 30kg tops inc box and contents. I do have a couple of Gerry's mounted on the back which would compensate if I filled them. I just leave them empty the majority of the time. The ball weight is around 220kg as it is so all good.

View attachment 68440

There is no way for me to fit a bigger box anyway as it would then be in the way of the "boot" opening. It is nothing like what garfield is looking to do size wise...
The Jayco Journey Outback I've found doesn't really have a lot of spare storage space, the front "boot' really is it externally...and even then on one side it has the 2 x 9kg gas bottles so that only leaves the other half for "stuff". I do need to tidy it up as it is like a dogs breakfast in there...
I have a length of poly pipe slung in front of the rear bumper for extra support poles and fishing rods.

The stone guard I fitted now fits snugly between the tool box and the jockey wheel...(not in this photo) For me though being the gas bottles are in the front boot no need to move them
Our mini Jumbuck BBQ lives in a canvas bag at the foot of the bed underneath where the frame juts out over the base in the Jayco, fits nice and snug out of the way....when arriving on site it comes out as gets used anyway as i don't ever cook inside the van.

Cheers HTR.

Is a stone guard a requirement if you have a toolbox on the drawbar?

 

[MDS69]

If you put your gas bottles in the box you need to ensure the regulator is still mounted higher than the bottles and the box is vented.

 

[garfield28]

If you put your gas bottles in the box you need to ensure the regulator is still mounted higher than the bottles and the box is vented.

Thabks MDS69, I did see that in another thread.

I have been looking through the threads and see some nice mods with toolboxes added to the drawbar but I haven't really come across anything that shows how to put the gas bottle in the toolbox or how to get rid of the factory fitted mount that holds the gas bottle at present, I also need to work out what to do with the spare wheel.

I really need to get my head around how I can come in legal with towball weight and level it out by adding weight to the rear.

 

[Drover]

I really need to get my head around how I can come in legal with towball weight and level it out by adding weight to the rear.

Ideally get your tow ball weight as it is now and do some maths and go from there, sort of add the box weight, subtract the spare add it to back, add the barbie sort of thing...... using cans of water is a good practical way of load sharing .................. A stone guard is always a good idea if your have a flat vertical back window on your tug but not often practical with a box fitted, you still have to be outside the 900mm radius or your turning circle is greatly curtailed, one of mine I scrunched because I had a lean on the screen and only measured at the bottom, top was within the 900 and got hit on a tight turn.... so the MkIII stone guard came into being.... Big Mal's draw bar is too short, fit one and getting into boot be near impossible so I made a 2mm plastic stone guard which sticks to the rear window which slopes away enough not to offer a flat surface for rocks.... A stone stomper would be okay but my van seems to deflect stones away from tug..

Technically, the gas bottles if you relocate them the plumbing must be done by a gas plumber, just the pipe work though. I have seen some innovative designs where they didn't move or change the plumbing, reg stayed outside they just used long flexi hoses to new bottle location in a box, shielded well of course.
Need vents in the floor of box and they cannot be housed in the same closed area as flammables or electrical items, must sealed off from anything like that, labels are required outside ...... I like the versions that access to bottles is thru a side door saves lifting the things out............. I have also found if flexi hoses have no hard bends they will last longer.

Not a fan of diesel tank in box or boot, they must be able to vent or they won't work so you can have the vapour in an enclosed area, then refilling with no mess.

All in all your heading in the direction most of us have taken, don't rush it, each trip away will help define the dream, you don't want to spend all the time and money on something that at first looks good then practically doesn't fit the bill..... I'm still doing mods to Big Mal, the Weber stays at home now though, found a small gas job does the job with less stuffing around.

 

[Hitting the road]

G'day garfield...
Is a stone guard a requirement if you have a toolbox on the drawbar

In my case the tug's tyres do stick out of the guards a bit and readily throws mud and crap..the front of the van is exposed on either side of the tool box so it gives some extra protection for the van.

you still have to be outside the 900mm radius or your turning circle is greatly curtailed, one of mine I scrunched because I had a lean on the screen and only measured at the bottom, top was within the 900 and got hit on a tight turn...

Absolutely, the tail lights on my last tug had scuff marks on them due to the stone guard on the camper trailer making contact on sharp turns, mainly reversing in to tight spots.
The stone guard I have fitted to this van in fact has pins that can be pulled and the stone guard easily lifted off it's brackets if it looks like a contact between tug and guard. Though the clearance on this one is pretty good so doubt I'll ever need to take it off.

 

[garfield28]

Ideally get your tow ball weight as it is now and do some maths and go from there, sort of add the box weight, subtract the spare add it to back, add the barbie sort of thing...... using cans of water is a good practical way of load sharing .................. A stone guard is always a good idea if your have a flat vertical back window on your tug but not often practical with a box fitted, you still have to be outside the 900mm radius or your turning circle is greatly curtailed, one of mine I scrunched because I had a lean on the screen and only measured at the bottom, top was within the 900 and got hit on a tight turn.... so the MkIII stone guard came into being.... Big Mal's draw bar is too short, fit one and getting into boot be near impossible so I made a 2mm plastic stone guard which sticks to the rear window which slopes away enough not to offer a flat surface for rocks.... A stone stomper would be okay but my van seems to deflect stones away from tug..

Technically, the gas bottles if you relocate them the plumbing must be done by a gas plumber, just the pipe work though. I have seen some innovative designs where they didn't move or change the plumbing, reg stayed outside they just used long flexi hoses to new bottle location in a box, shielded well of course.
Need vents in the floor of box and they cannot be housed in the same closed area as flammables or electrical items, must sealed off from anything like that, labels are required outside ...... I like the versions that access to bottles is thru a side door saves lifting the things out............. I have also found if flexi hoses have no hard bends they will last longer.

Not a fan of diesel tank in box or boot, they must be able to vent or they won't work so you can have the vapour in an enclosed area, then refilling with no mess.

All in all your heading in the direction most of us have taken, don't rush it, each trip away will help define the dream, you don't want to spend all the time and money on something that at first looks good then practically doesn't fit the bill..... I'm still doing mods to Big Mal, the Weber stays at home now though, found a small gas job does the job with less stuffing around.

Thanks Drover

So much more to consider then I could ever have imagined seeing so many Expandas out there that have toolboxes on them. I really need to understand what is safe and how to do this properly with the weight on the towball, it is very confusing for me and it would be easier for me to leave it as is but I'd really like the bit if extra storage on the van so I need to get my head around it

I like the idea of using flexi hoses if I could avoid having to have a gas plumber do some work. I have downloaded a copy of the regulations for gas bottles on a van, am yet to read it but will, I did read through some comments in other post stating the vents and also the regulator has to be higher than the bottles too.

I don't want to store the diesel heater tank inside the box was just thinking more it gives me something to screw into and fix on the outside of it.

The stone guard I have fitted to this van in fact has pins that can be pulled and the stone guard easily lifted off it's brackets if it looks like a contact between tug and guard. Though the clearance on this one is pretty good so doubt I'll ever need to take it off.

Thanks HTR

That would now explain why I have seen stone guards that are removed. I used to wonder why that was, but what you say makes perfect sense. I only have the standard drawbar too so if I were to add one it would be so tight a spot.

 

[Drover]

I only have the standard drawbar too so if I were to add one it would be so tight a spot.

A Standard size will be a hinderance I think............ Before you start burning grey cells on the subject, grab tape measure go from centre of your tow ball to edge of tug note the distance, then from centre of your tow hitch on van scribe an arc at that distance over draw bar, inside is a target outside isn't, well maybe if its close, rear end of tug shape and bumpers can mean the distance to be clear is more, of course with a tray back ute you can jack knife and take out everything ............. at least then you will see if its at all viable, theres always options out there.....

You will have to throw some pics up so we can visualize better....... or point to any you have already posted............

 

[Hitting the road]

The standard draw bar length, which my van has, certainly limits what can be fitted. i think I may have mentioned somewhere that I had to remove the WDH brackets off the draw bar as there was absolutely no way were they going fit along with the stone guard. In my pic above the WDH brackets visible are where the stone guard brackets now reside...
The only way I could have both stone guard and WDH system would be to remove the tool box....so the WDH system lost...

Garfield if you can weigh the draw bar hitch now with the van loaded, full water tanks etc,, you will get a much better idea of what capacity you have to play with for a tool box, and BBQ etc. The BBQ's feel heavier than they really are, my Jumbuck which is pretty much the same size as the Weber BabyQ weighs 18kgs.

Moving the gas bottles isn't a real big deal, just some regs to be adhered to...once done it will obviously give you heaps more usable space in an area otherwise wasted.

 

[garfield28]

Today I bought a towball scale and decided to see what my towball weight is at the moment. I have one gas bottle which is pretty much full, I have the spare and also a bike rack with 2 bikes. My weight was 180kg according to the weight scale. On my plate inside the van it says empty ball mass 144kg. Can anyone please explain that to me, as things are now am I loaded illegal please?

I'd really like to add a toolbox but not even sure if I can now

 

[Drover]

The empty ball weight along with tare is to be ignored as a myth....... ball weight only has a maximum which is what your vehicle can have usually 350kg. Your ball weight is totally legal.........its ATM/GTM on van thats the clincher along with GVM/GCM on tug..................

 

[garfield28]

The empty ball weight along with tare is to be ignored as a myth....... ball weight only has a maximum which is what your vehicle can have usually 350kg. Your ball weight is totally legal.........its ATM/GTM on van thats the clincher along with GVM/GCM on tug..................

Thanks Drover.

I don't understand it all, it's very confusing for me. I want to be safe to all on the road and it scares me if God forbid anything happens and then the insurance company says you were over etc to get out of a claim.

I am towing with a MQ Triton which is rated to tow 3.2 tonne I'm pretty sure.

 

[Drover]

I think the insurance dropping you is one of those urban myths, while it is possible its not probable, they would have to prove it by making a lot of assumptions... Of course it can be blatantly obvious if theres a boat, big engine laying in the rubble behind your Kluger towing a Kakadu sort of thing......
The paranoid never mention the legal aspects of changing rims ,tyres and things, can have the same result be it van or tug. You seem to be well in the clear...

 

[garfield28]

Thanks heaps Drover

 

[garfield28]

@Drover also thinking I will load my van as if I were going on a trip and then go and get it all weighed and see what it all comes in at.

 

[Drover]

@Drover also thinking I will load my van as if I were going on a trip and then go and get it all weighed and see what it all comes in at.

No harm in that at all.....

If you look at the gear thats really part of the van, jack, wheel brace, full gas bottles, 1 water tank full, screens etc plus the kitchen stuff, what you would call the basic van camp gear, then get it weighed, this gives you a base line to work from and saves $$ running to and from weigh bridge, then you can see how much stuff like food, clothes , beer can be loaded. You may even find some of the basic stuff may need to be left at home .. things like the heavy steel barbie plat, extra jack or other gear may have to go to allow a push bike or something...... also the tug usually cannot load as much as you think remembering that whatever the ball weight is, it gets added to the tugs GVM........

Understanding caravan towing capacity - Without a Hitch

The law governing caravan towing capacity is first and foremost designed for safety – yours, that of your occupants and third parties. Knowing your weights and caravan towing capacity is essential for safe towing. So let’s talk weights: Tare mass (vehicle) This is the actual mass of the tow...

withoutahitch.com.au

 

[garfield28]

I think the insurance dropping you is one of those urban myths, while it is possible its not probable, they would have to prove it by making a lot of assumptions... Of course it can be blatantly obvious if theres a boat, big engine laying in the rubble behind your Kluger towing a Kakadu sort of thing......
The paranoid never mention the legal aspects of changing rims ,tyres and things, can have the same result be it van or tug. You seem to be well in the clear...

No harm in that at all.....

If you look at the gear thats really part of the van, jack, wheel brace, full gas bottles, 1 water tank full, screens etc plus the kitchen stuff, what you would call the basic van camp gear, then get it weighed, this gives you a base line to work from and saves $$ running to and from weigh bridge, then you can see how much stuff like food, clothes , beer can be loaded. You may even find some of the basic stuff may need to be left at home .. things like the heavy steel barbie plat, extra jack or other gear may have to go to allow a push bike or something...... also the tug usually cannot load as much as you think remembering that whatever the ball weight is, it gets added to the tugs GVM........

Understanding caravan towing capacity - Without a Hitch

The law governing caravan towing capacity is first and foremost designed for safety – yours, that of your occupants and third parties. Knowing your weights and caravan towing capacity is essential for safe towing. So let’s talk weights: Tare mass (vehicle) This is the actual mass of the tow...

withoutahitch.com.au

Thanks for the link mate.

 

[garfield28]

Another question on this thread if I may, promise I will try and leave you all alone after this one, but what would be the best way to mount the toolbox to the drawbar please. I was thinking of using Tek screws to screw it to the top of the drawbar or should I be making a frame and somehow u-bolt it to the drawbar?

Thanks
Geoff