Just wondering does any one know the actual 12volt battery charge rate from these power converters.specs say 13.5v at 45 amp,I assume that 45 amp is power supplied to the van usage, no reference for charge rate to battery, I have been trolling around and the only discription is"an ordinary trickle charger" also how is the 13.5 v charge going to effect the life of my AGM battery,maybe I need to use solar charging direct to battery and not 240v for storage
Electrical Centurion cs3500
- Thread starter poor but proud
- Start date
Hi,
here are my thoughts. I am sure others will have similar but varying thoughts based on their own practcal experiences or technical training.
I would get a multimeter and measure the voltage when the Centurion is charging and you are reasonably sure the battery is fully charged.
Then compare that voltage to the specs for the battery which are usually printed on the battery. If not, Google your battery model and get a copy of the specs for your particular battery.
These are very old and simple units, so most unlikely to be a multistage charger with charging cycles for bulk, absorption, float, or storage.
Then you will be able to determine if the charging voltage is correct or not. Too high and you will cook the battery, to low and it will not be charged or maintained in an optimal state.
If in doubt, I wouldn't use the Centurion to maintain the battery when in storage and either get a small solar panel and controller with multi-stage charging cycles (40-50W would be sufficient) or a small 240V multistage charger around 5-10A would be my suggestion. Repco have battery chargers regularly on special at a good discount. Other options are Jaycar, Altronics, or SCA. But ensure they have the correct voltage settings for your battery type.
An inexpensive charger is a small investment to maintain the more expensive deep cycle batteries and improve the chances of the batteries working correctly when you are off camping.
Solar panels do, of course, have the added advantage of recovering your batteries whilst you are camping off-grid.
take care
Mike
Hi @poor but proud , at first glance, it would appear that the unit is meant for continuous current supply at a voltage of 13.5 volts, something like what happens to our battery management systems when no battery connected. Hence not really suitable for battery charging your AGM which requires 14.7 volts initially to achieve full charge, but around 13.5 volts is close enough for Float charging, Unfortunately, your picture of instructions is not quite readable, so take this post as a preliminary answer. I will see if I can dig up more useful information.
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I tried the discription from the actual jayco booklet,what you say makes sense as when we bought the van a battery had never been installed,jayco stuck in an agm battery to close the sale,as we were then van virgins it meant nothing to us that the charger was not suitable for that type of battery,we have done enough van trips using solar to keep the battery happy,but last year just sitting on low charge probably finished off the battery
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@poor but proud , I have had a bit of a quick look for more info, but only came up with a similar unit (much later model too) which is used with UPS (uninterrupted power supply) with very fine tolerances in voltage and ripple current, features required when connected to computer supplies and delicate measuring instruments. In my opinion, it would not be suitable for your van unless of course you were in a fixed position, needed lots of current at 13.65 volts to operate computers and fine instruments.
You can try what @mikerezny said measuring voltage, but without the staged charging ability, I would not risk it. A good multistage "smart" charger (I have a 7 stage 15A type from SCA which works well for my AGM, and generally cheaper on special (cost about $125.00 on special - 10A and 8A are cheaper again) than some of the big name brands which do the same thing. Battery types have changed significantly in recent years.
As you have just said, it appears that the van was originally set up for on grid performance with no battery, Just bunging in an AGM to close the deal without a suitable BMS is really poor. Even the Setec Series I, II or III, which was just suitable for the Gel type batteries was the norm back then before the changes to AGMs made Jayco upgrade to the BMPro which at least charges at 14.45 volts.
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this was the only on board system,apart from that i have direct charged from solar (via controller) through external anderson plug to battery
purchased an atem 10amp 6/12 volt auto agm battery charger from sun yee, winter sale now on,20% off $99.95 marked down to $79.96, they also have 135 amp agm batteries on sale $296.95 marked down to $215.96 (free delivery) sale ends 25/7 , i will disconnect the battery from the centurian charger and use the new atem charger to maintain my battery when on plug in, i have checked the solar settings and the powertech unit is delivering what it is set for 14.7v on bulk , then 13.6 on float,
ordered monday 11am delivered wednesday 10 am( altona vic to redlands qld ) cant fault their despatch and delivery network, takes aust post up to 6 days to get a letter across 4 suburbs these days
the atem agm battery failed after 18 months very gentle use, the reviews for atem were good 18 months ago not so good now ,i did not check at the time but i believe the stated 135amp was also suspect , battery analyzer test 95cca internal R 28.5 health 3% let the buyer beware, now in the market for another agm battery, i will also get the next one from a shop front , not online , so if i have issues i can go and see them in person ,
That is not good news. What was the warranty on them? Regardless, you might be able claim a full refund since the product was not fit for purpose.
If you go that route, document all the customer reviews.
12 months , good plan to dig up as many issues as possible ,should have purchased using well known brands ,never pays to shop using "special" prices
Thats a bugga but then I have had known brand to go legs up just out of warranty, cell collapse, sorry sir .... But then it may have been the charger which killed it you never know .
Hi @poor but proud , I bought the same battery Atem 135ah AGM from Sunyee on Ebay in July 2021. To date, no problems have occurred and I have given it a fair bit of work in the field and at home. In the field, I have dragged out more than 45ahs on several day occasions and recharged to full by solar through MPPT controller next day. I have the max Charge voltage setting on controller at 14.6 volts and Float is 13.7 volts. My MPPT controller has temperature compensation as well, to adjust charging voltages when battery is at different temperatures while being charged. Battery sensor is taped to top of battery so temp adjustment is accurately based, not just defaulted to ambient at controller as most controllers are. Have seen battery temperature as shown on MPPT display read out as high as 30C and as low as 5C, but this was caused by atmospheric temperature related conditions, not charging related. Charging voltage and current are reduced/increased by small amounts to cater for these occasions, so it looks like that has protected my battery (single only) in the field. See link regarding effect of temperature on battery while charging and also charging voltages.
At home, 7 stage 15A charger is always hooked up for at least 24 hours or so, after getting home and/or for at least 12 to 24 hours after battery charger reaches float. SOC remains at 13.1 or 13.0 when charger off, and stays that way for many days when no load at all. I even remove fuse for radio and turn off battery switch until I need to check battery voltage again. Battery is NOT left on (float?) charge for long periods as I read somewhere that continuous charging of a fully charged battery corrodes the positive plates.
Additionally, 240 volt power is used to operate fridge for about 2 days before we leave home to camp, and this of course charges battery, or tries to. The Setec ST20 Series III always goes to only 14 volts to charge, then quickly drops back to 13.8 volts float, but each day , changes to "storage" mode of 13.2 volts for a period of time. One good thing about the Setec!!! The other things that "can" cause premature battery failure are heat in battery, parasitic loads of unknown location, infrequent charging and poor ripple control in charger (a small 240 volt AC current superimposed on 12 to 15 volt DC supply) as mentioned by @Drover.
I hope I have not put a jinx on my battery after this epistle.
Good luck with your next battery though.
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I think my batteries charging only by solar may be good for them as they get a topping daily after an overnight rest with just some sensors and maybe the vast STB and Breaksafe hanging off the battery, if I ever get my roof built over it I will be picking up an old house panel, ($40) and sticking that on the roof to keep things charged, flick the switch OFF for my van panels and plug it in, the panel I have set up for my boat works brilliantly, my old van charger handles the extra voltage okay, expensive bit is some decent cable....
@Drover , at least with solar charging there is NO possibility of damage by ripples of 240v AC current trying to go through battery in charging process. Caps have to be well over expected voltage limits and able to filter current (smooth out the alternating current) so only DC flowing in a steady and even flow, even in hot conditions. In fact, it would be poor design if caps are placed too close to rectifying electronics or anything that is likely to get warm.
I have come to the belief that some premature failures on AGMs, especially those which sit around and are ignored as they are on a multi stage charger which may be auto select instead of a dedicated setting, no temp probe on battery, the battery sitting doing nothing the charger goes to recon the battery and the desulphation process causes too much heat which isn't monitored and the AGM falls over ................ I think that is what happened to a mates last week, has done nothing for a year or so and then cooked and vented everywhere.......................
I think a 5+ stage charger with a selectable battery function not auto and is fitted with a temp probe so the charger can regulate the charge knowing the battery temp without having to guess ....... some of the high end brand names don't have these functions trusting to some phone app, nothing beats actually having a look /smell/feel ...... GELs are even worse in some degree.
I think a 5+ stage charger with a selectable battery function not auto and is fitted with a temp probe so the charger can regulate the charge knowing the battery temp without having to guess ....... some of the high end brand names don't have these functions trusting to some phone app, nothing beats actually having a look /smell/feel ...... GELs are even worse in some degree.
I think you could be right @Drover. Batteries left sitting around in various states of charge, (and not necessarily flat) do not benefit from not being used. They need to be used! Charged to full before being discharged a bit, and then recharged, and so cycling again. I remember reading on one manufacturer's site, that AGMs (and all batteries except lithium) benefit in longevity by being discharged to no lower than 75% SOC and recharged again immediately. Much better than discharging to 60% SOC and then recharging to full. Conversely, a battery discharged by only 5 to 10% frequently (to 90 to 95% SOC) and then recharged (even straight away!!) will deteriorate quicker that if used harder as this does not allow battery to fully recycle all the chemicals in the battery. Like most thigs in life _ "Use it or lose It"!!
probably "guilty as charged" smart charger has been left on too long while the van has been inactive over the last 12 months, the blurb on the charger instructions say it is ok , but further reading says long term trickle charge upsets the chemistry of the plates , sounds like a good excuse to put solar on the van shed and use the sun as a timer, and even then rest the battery from charging cycles during storage, but my excuse to the director of finance and war will be if we used the van more often it would not have happened . then again maybe i will just keep my mouth shut and live the quite life
Yes @poor but proud , a wise man said "discretion is the better part of valor", and this especially applies when it comes to women judging you. You never win!!! Seems like what I said may ring a bell about continued float charging of a fully charged battery causes positive plates to corrode. Cannot remember where I saw it, or where to look for it now either, but it was there, stored in the back of my mind with all the other "BUI". (bluddy useless information!)
You can still use your "smart" charger and do like I do. Turn charger off when float has been achieved for a few hours. Then 3 or 4 or 2 or 3 weeks later, turn charger on for a day or until float status reached, and turn off again. That way, there is no long term charging involved, but battery is fully charged, so sulphation does not build up on plates.
@Drover uses his solar to charge his two Gel batteries with success, but he has a continuous drain, albeit only small, all the time, so less chance of float charging already full batteries. But I agree with you, better to use van and its electrics - occasionally to frequently - to get the best out of battery. Works for me , so far anyway. Hope it continues.
Nah, be a devil and suggest more time on the road will save money in long run.......... Mrs D actually found we spend less as Im not spending stuff on projects ................. its really a bet each way with batteries sit on shelf or trickle charge then like most things the devil is in the detail with chargers, I suspected my Projecta charger in my melt down but impossible to pin point as I suspect it went into recon mode when it thought things needed a recondition ............ all academic now as Big Mal is fully off grid all the time in regard to charging, no 240, no tug been virtually that way for years now so proven in the real world, saved a swag of $$$ as well by no need for extra expensive gear....