Buying & Towing Expanda OB With Nissan X-Trail

[Robert Soper]

Ladies & Gents,

Here it is :

After a couple of years of camping with a camper trailer, enduring the ordeal of 'setup' and 'setdown' with two small kids, and dealing with wet canvas, we would really like to buy a Jayco Expanda 14ft Outback with the two bunks on the end.

Here is the thing, i am trying to figure out how to finance this project without breaking the bank, with having to buy the caravan itself, a new car to tow it, and a new house so it can fit in the garage!

So my first question is in relation to buying the caravan itself. The 14ft Outback Expanda's start around the $41K mark, according to the Jayco website, but i have friends who have bought brand new 16ft or 18ft Expanda Outback caravans from Jayco, for around $40K, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Obviously you would expect to pay more for an 18ft model. Can someone tell me what you would expect to pay for a caravan like this, is the price on the website accurate? And what is the best way of going about getting one which is only couple of years old, whilst getting the most 'bang for your buck?

The other question relates to our tow vehicle. We have a 2005 automatic petrol Nissan X-Trail, i believe our TARE weight is 2000kg, (i think), our tow ball weight is 150kg. The 14ft Expanda's tare weight is 1635kg, so you would think it would be okay, but then when its loaded up maybe it comes to around 1900kg, its starting to look a little heavy. I'm just wondering if based on the TARE weight, people think this is realistic, or if its getting a little on the dangerous side, even though it is within the specs? Then of course the tow ball weight for the Trail is 150kg (i think), but the tow ball weight of the 14ft Expanda is 164kg, which of course is too heavy for our X-Trail. I just don't quite understand this, as from my research on the internet there are people out there pulling larger caravans than the 14ft Jayco Expanda with XTrails?

Lastly, if the caravan doesn't fit in the garage, which is going to be a struggle, even with a 14ft caravan, is it possible to keep in on your driveway, in a manner which will ensure it doesn't degrade, and won't be stolen?

Any advice is appreciated.

Cheers - Bob

 

[pauljygrant]

My experience when shopping for our previous Swan and more recently our current Basestation is that models only a few years old are about the same price as list price for a new one at dealers. The difference is that you can drive it away without a build time wait and also that you get the previous owners extras at minimal cost - provided that the extras are of interest to you.
We opted for touring models each time however if we had bought second hand, we would have most likely gone for Outback models. Similar cost to us and lack of outback looks helped pay for a new camper.
If buying new, try to buy around show times - even if you don't buy at the show, they will offer the same deal at their yard.
Consider travelling even interstate - we purchased our Swan at Mildura and saved $2,000 compared to the Adelaide dealers best price. No trade in so easy to negotiate over the phone / internet. Did buy our Basestation locally but was able to haggle better using the threat of again going interstate.
As for weights, don't believe anything that Jayco tell you! The ball weight sounds surprisingly accurate at 10% of the tare weight......I doubt that it would be this weight in real life. Could be more or less so if you are at your cars limit you might get a nasty shock. Buying second hand would allow you to weigh the actual weights before purchasing. If weight is critical, don't rely on the compliance plate but get the dealer to take it to a weigh bridge. Ball weight scales can be purchased for around $80 and the dealer should have a set anyway.

 

[bigcol]

welcome to the forum Bob - @Robert Soper
1st thing first, flick a private message to @expanda - see if he can change your Member name - unless you like everyone knowing who you are
more for the identity thief type of people..........

2nd

having to buy the caravan itself, a new car to tow it, and a new house so it can fit in the garage!

hmmmm
a bit of a toughy this one - are you looking at the full height Van, or a 14' pop top - is it the height thats the problem.........?????

also, with the new-ish vehicle - you dont always have to have the latest and the greatest and the newest
have a read of one of many threads about this here
also, one of the other members asked pretty much the same questions....... here.......
there are quite a few thread that have been on-going about towing & legal limits
have a look here and here as well as a great thread by @Dobbie here


that should keep you busy for awhile..........

 

[Robert Soper]

Thanks for the replies, they are really helpful.

BigCol i think from the storage perspective the issue would be the trying to cram a 14ft caravan into your average new build garage. Probably the length is going to be the issue as opposed to height. It is realistic to store them on the front drive, and if so how to people mitigate the risk of wear and tear from the elements, and theft?

I think realistically we are going to have to look at buying a new car. Our X-Trail is 11 years old, and is starting to get to that point where we are having to spend more money than its worth in maintenance, so we will look at a new tow car which is perhaps three years old or so. I will have a look at the links which have been supplied - thanks.

The option of shopping interstate for a van is an option, but for example, if we live on the Gold Coast (thats were we are moving to shortly), and the van is in Vic, are there companies you can pay to go and have a look at a van and do a report on it, in a similar fashion to a survey you get on a house you are buying?

 

[Drover]

:welcome: Good questions and welcome to the mob, Have to agree with above comments and my 2 bob's worth would be the Nissan wouldn't cut it weight wise as you would be right on if not over the weights.................................Everything new is a lot of $$$ and there are many used vehicles out there in top condition that have all the bugs fixed and come with extras that are a big saving because if you buy new you will still have to pour a bucket of money into the boot for all those extra bits..................................Just remember if you think you need it buy it after a trip or 2 when you know you need it.
To future proof your shed since your going to upgrade house etc then go for a 3.2m high shed, that way later on when you trade in on a full size you have the room unless you fill it with stuff ( I have a 9x6x3.2 shed, Big Mal actually lives next to our shed under an awning.)

Compliance plates are more than likely incorrect as @pauljygrant said.:thumb:

 

[JT76]

We have the van you are looking at and love it.

The price will depend on how good you can negotiate and what's out there at the time. We paid $38k new for it with a few extras but it was floor stock and bought in Jan 16 and it was a Nov 15 build so they wanted to move it I guess. Other might do better but as mentioned second hand prices were around the same so it made sense to go new for us.

Weight wise as mentioned above would probably be an issue. I borrowed a set of scales and we came in at 170kg.

Ours lives in a second driveway and have a adco cover that was part of the deal. Cover seems to be good quality and it's keeping the van protected very well. Where ours sits it get less weather as its on the eastern side of the house and is pretty protected anyway, but a good cover will still protect it.

 

[Robert Soper]

Thanks for all the replies, for those storing the van on the driveway, how do you stop it getting pinched?

 

[PhilW]

Hi Bob,
We also have the same van. I reckon the XTrail would be right on the limit for towing capacity.
If you have to store it outside and want to keep it like new, the cover below was our solution.
We purchased second hand for $35k and got an Outback with every option including fully enclosed annexe.
I believe there is value in looking at second hand vans. Ours is in amazing condition. We did however purchase interstate to get the right one.
Good luck with your search.

 

[Drover]

What year and model is your X Trail ??? I've looked at the spec sheets and the models I've looked at only have a tow capacity of 1.5t or 2t and a GVM of 2t to 2.1t, with a tare of 1.4 to 1.6t nothing about GCM . The GVM is with 4 pax and full fuel but that drops your ball weight down 50kg.

Nissan Specs I was looking at: http://www.nissan.com.au/~/media/Fi...X-TRAIL-Specification.ashx?COLLCC=3335652471&

This explains a lot of things: http://autoexpert.com.au/buying-a-car/understanding-towing-and-load-limits-for-suvs-and-utes

 

[Robert Soper]

It's a 2005, I think the TARE IS 2000kg, ball weight is 150kg. Thanks for the links

 

[Drover]

The vehicles compliance plate should have the weight details on it, unlike caravan compliance plates cars are usually on the money.

2005 specs show tare at 1400 odd kgs and tow cap of 2000kg.................so really no, you couldn't tow a van close to 2 ton with the xtrail loaded up, technically.

 

[NoWorries]

Problem with most cars and Nissan are not exempt is that the GVM and Towing capacity is reduced by the Tow Ball mass
eg 150kg Reduced loaded vehicle mass below GVM by 150kg
A Xtrail is about 1600kg and probably has about 500 kg of extra load
so 500kg - Fuel 65kg
435 - 150 towball
285 - People - any extras added to the car - Ipads etc etc

Then try to pull a 2 on van, in short yes you can do it on paper but in real life you will kill the car very quickly and might even kill yourself if the van ever gets bad wobbles

I would be looking for a larger Tug

 

[bigcol]

Then try to pull a 2 on van, in short yes you can do it on paper but in real life you will kill the car very quickly and might even kill yourself if the van ever gets bad wobbles

whatever you do though, dont go down that Bruce Hwy......... it likes to make Caravans lay down for a nap.........

 

[bigcol]

I think realistically we are going to have to look at buying a new car. Our X-Trail is 11 years old, and is starting to get to that point where we are having to spend more money than its worth in maintenance, so we will look at a new tow car which is perhaps three years old or so. I will have a look at the links which have been supplied - thanks.

now comes the interesting bit
before forking out hard earned coin on a tow vehicle, have a good long think about what you want to do.............

I always suggest, get a sheet of paper, and write down everything you want to do
tow Van
carry 17 kids, 3 dogs & a partridge in a pear tree
travel long distance at light speed, and be very economical at the same time
drive on the beach
be able to park it at the shopping centre
can everyone (17 kids, 3 dogs & a partridge in a pear tree) get in and out easy

and anything else you can think of

then put that aside for awhile, adding to the list as you think of things

then start another list
every type of Car / 4WD / Gopher (whatever) you can think of
Crummydoor
Falchoon
Playdoh
Pajeroooooooo
Cruiser
Patrol
Jheep
Humvee (Hummer2)

then, get list 1, and while looking at it, cross off any vehicles on list 2 that dont do 99.5% of what you want

what you have left will be what you need to look at

long and laborious, but you will then only be looking at cars that
1) you like
2) are prepared to buy and own
3) will do the Job you want it to do

 

[bigcol]

i think from the storage perspective the issue would be the trying to cram a 14ft caravan into your average new build garage. Probably the length is going to be the issue as opposed to height. It is realistic to store them on the front drive, and if so how to people mitigate the risk of wear and tear from the elements, and theft?

my father used to just have a "hitch lock" on his draw bar - but
he used to drive up the driveway, and just before the roller door, unhitch, and drive into the carport and reverse out

that way, they would need to open the roller door (no possible from outside - 2 dirty great padlocks on the door), drive into the carport to hitch it up

as @PhilW said, a decent cover for your Van and it should (should being the operative word) be ok

 

[dagree]

then start another list
every type of Car / 4WD / Gopher (whatever) you can think of
Crummydoor
Falchoon
Playdoh
Pajeroooooooo
Cruiser
Pootrol
Jheep
Humvee (Hummer2)

Fixed the list for you @bigcol

 

[Drover]

You would have fun getting a 14 in thru a standard garage door'