20' Series BreakAway Battery

[facemir]

2016 20.64-1 My breakaway battery is dead, located in the front with the water pump and hot water service. I have tried to move the two clips on the cover to open up the compartment to access the battery; but there seems to be something on the bottom stopping me from getting the cover off. There appears to be two screws on the bottom both corners. Do these screws need to come off to get the cover off. If they do; I have to take my water pump out because the water pump is right in front of the breakaway box. I just thought I would ask first. I was contemplating wiring this to the main house battery on the switched circuit. Anybody have any thought's on this. ??

 

[jazzeddie1234]

You have to remove the two screws at the base of the cover. Can a stubby screw driver fit? They will not be very tight. Otherwise can you reach the main mounting screws and lift the whole thing up first?

The replacement battery (12v 7ah SLA?) is the sort used in most house alarms and pretty inexpensive - something like 25-30 dollars on ebay. I wouldn't connect to my main battery because I don't know the internal circuitry and if the breakaway is grounded etc.

 

[Drover]

and don't forget the tabs on the side, push in while pulling cover out........
What brand of Breakaway unit is it ?
Mine is Breakaway 6000 and I have it charging off the van batteries, fused and with a switch, certainly need the installation instructions to find the correct wires but you will have to ensure the capability to charge off the tug is terminated..... Try and give the battery a bench charge overnight you may find that it will charge up and hold quite happily mine dies a couple of years ago because of a wiring fault, bench charged battery, was good so put it back in and now it charges off the van battery......... My van has ample storage and is constantly kept charged by solar...

 

[jazzeddie1234]

It might depend on the number of axles too - for the current draw, and therefore the wiring size. My brakes sink over 10 amps on full lock

I do like the idea of charging it via the house battery, especially when free camping for long periods, because it usually only gets charged when plugged into the tug (and when plugged into 240 of course). I have considered shifting the black wire from the tug, or using the external charging socket, to connect to the battery so it still uses it's internal charger - esp since I have lithium

 

[mikerezny]

Hi,
if considering charging the breakaway battery from the tug battery, one must consider ensuring that the breakaway battery is kept fully charged.
If the breakaway battery is just wired in parallel with the tug battery then there is the possibility of both being discharged by van usage.

There is also the issue of putting different types of batteries in parallel: i.e Mixing AGM, Gel, or Lithium.

take care
Mike

 

[Drover]

Mine has its own internal charger and is just connected up to 12v supply not an external charger, it matters not to it whether the 12v source is from the vehicle battery or van battery, an external charger like a phone charger is required if charging from 240v. If my wiring is the same as @jazzeddie1234 wiring diagram then the black is connected to the van 12v supply............ it gets kept at a more reliable charge than if hooked up to the tug for a few hours every so often.
If van is set up for off grid properly then its just another outmoded connect to tug idea like van battery charging...

 

[BaldEd]

I have a Tow Secure breakaway unit fitted to my 2016 Jayco. Just read the Operating Instructions and now noted that Tow Secure state "the battery should be replaced every 2 years, irrespective of its test condition". Hmmm?

 

[Drover]

I have a Tow Secure breakaway unit fitted to my 2016 Jayco. Just read the Operating Instructions and now noted that Tow Secure state "the battery should be replaced every 2 years, irrespective of its test condition". Hmmm?

They all say that, I suppose if its only getting charged when hooked up to tug wouldn't do much good in the long run....... I doubt very many folk bin them after 2 years or even check them........

 

[facemir]

Thanks for everybody's help. I got the old battery out and put on 2amp trickle charge overnight and only came up to 11.2v. Got a new one at bunnings $29. Further discussion on connecting to caravan battery to charge. I have a 200ah Enerdrive Lithium for caravan battery and I monitor this and it never goes flat. So why cant I cut the cable off the 240v connector, (pictured) which is a "power brick" for want of a better description, and connect the cable that's left, to a caravan battery 12v supply. The power brick that plugs into the 240v has 15v 1 amp output. Or am I oversimplifying it. ??

 

[Boots in Action]

Thanks for everybody's help. I got the old battery out and put on 2amp trickle charge overnight and only came up to 11.2v. Got a new one at bunnings $29. Further discussion on connecting to caravan battery to charge. I have a 200ah Enerdrive Lithium for caravan battery and I monitor this and it never goes flat. So why cant I cut the cable off the 240v connector, (pictured) which is a "power brick" for want of a better description, and connect the cable that's left, to a caravan battery 12v supply. The power brick that plugs into the 240v has 15v 1 amp output. Or am I oversimplifying it. ??
View attachment 68464

Over simplifying to some extent, but not really way off track. The switching adapter 240 volt type is rated at 15 volts to charge a 12 volt battery (lead acid type). You get nowhere trying to charge a 12 volt battery with only 12 volts. Internal resistance in a low or flat 12 volt battery means that you always have to have a higher voltage (rated with no load?) to overcome this resistance and get some charge (actually voltage) into and through battery. Within limits of course, as if charging voltage is too far above battery rated voltage, too much current (amps) is forced through battery. Hence whilst rated at 15 volts, current output is limited to only 1 amp for charging adaptor.
No real problem in connecting smaller break-away battery (12 volt 7 amp) in parallel with a SIMILAR chemistry type battery, but NOT to a different type eg Lithium - different charging/discharging algorithms. Connecting in parallel means charging AND discharging are supposed to be evenly matched, something that is NOT possible with your setup. Charge from car alternator (maybe???) or by small suitable solar controller for a 12 volt lead acid type battery. Otherwise 240 volt when on grid, done regularly.

 

[jazzeddie1234]

So why cant I cut the cable off the 240v connector, (pictured) which is a "power brick" for want of a better description, and connect the cable that's left, to a caravan battery 12v supply. The power brick that plugs into the 240v has 15v 1 amp output. Or am I oversimplifying it. ??

I just wandered out to the caravan and tried that with a spare dc plug connected to my lithium batteries. Seems to be charging ok although it won't do a full charge until the solar switches to bulk mode and they reach 14.6V. I also stuck a diode in series with the lead because I don't know the circuit for the tug charging connection side (the black wire). It will break if it's a simple parallel connection with the dc plugpack input because it will back feed into the lithium batteries.

 

[Drover]

These units have their own small internal trickle charger, its not connected to the vans charging system its just drawing 12v so van or car battery type has nothing to do with it, it just wants a 12v source tug battery or vans battery it matters not, so long as its 12v ............................

I would just provide 12v from van to the black lead coming from the unit, disconnect it from the 12 pin plug so you don't get any problems with tug.... The 240v charger I would leave and keep it for a just in case scenario...

My unit is directly connected to the vans 12v supply and has been for a number of years, battery is always at full charge.

 

[facemir]

" I would just provide 12v from van to the black lead coming from the unit, disconnect it from the 12 pin plug so you don't get any problems with tug.... The 240v charger I would leave and keep it for a just in case scenario..."

Drover
Can you confirm what "black lead coming from the unit" you are talking about. Do you mean the lead coming from the 240v charging brick. That lead on mine has a male / female plug that can be unplugged half way down the cord. Are you talking about that one ?

 

[Drover]

" I would just provide 12v from van to the black lead coming from the unit, disconnect it from the 12 pin plug so you don't get any problems with tug.... The 240v charger I would leave and keep it for a just in case scenario..."

Drover
Can you confirm what "black lead coming from the unit" you are talking about. Do you mean the lead coming from the 240v charging brick. That lead on mine has a male / female plug that can be unplugged half way down the cord. Are you talking about that one ?

No, I mean the black wire from the breakaway unit itself that should be going to your 12 pin socket for power from tug, it should be with a group of wires red, white, blue and orange I would keep the 240v power brick intact as a back up ..... connecting to your van 12v system would only be advisable if your van battery is under regular charge otherwise the breakaway charger would slowly run down your van battery as sure as if you left the lights on, thats why with mine I fitted a switch so I could turn it off for both maintenance and times van is fully shut down........ The wiring of these breakaway units no matter what brand seem to be the same which is a good thing.....

Though if you wanted to do surgery on your 240v charger, cut the lead off it so you can use the plug and tap the other end to the van 12v I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work as it would connect to the same internal charger in the breakaway, the 240v brick is only supplying a power source not doing the charging per se................ though I would go to Jaycar and get a plug and make my own lead..... just remember whichever way you go to disconnect the black lead to the tug from the 12 pin or you could cause conflict.

 

[facemir]

Thanks for that Drover. Black wire on my 12 pin is pin 2, and I presume that also feeds my Alko ESC. Andersen goes to the 12v on my fridge. If I just cut the black wire at the Breakaway box as it goes into, this shouldn't interfere with the ESC. Or maybe its a job for a auto electrician to trace where the wires go.

 

[Drover]

Best to track them yourself then if things break in camp you know where your at, best if you have a multi meter, a must have bit of kit for off grid.........

A simple test would be to take cover off 12 pin and plug in to tug, check that breakaway is showing charging and the ESC led is on, pull the wire from pin 2 and see which one goes out, if both go out I would just disconnect the black near the breakaway and close the end on the wire returning to 12 pin, ESC should then be happy, with the lead from the breakaway I would perhaps cut the wire so you could mount a switch then run a van 12v wire to the switch, saves uneeded joins as well as neater, the switch would then allow you to isolate power to the breakaway, since its only a low wire a 10amp fuse owuld be more than enough........... I find it strange that they would run the ESC and breakaway power off the same circuit though but wouldn't be surprised........... I have only come across ESC connecting up with andersons.... I don't have one on Big Mal so haven't played with them a great deal just running repairs to others vans.

If you sit back and look at things like wire tracing its a bit like join the dots, a bit of thought and a meter or just a simple test light will answer your questions.... I have a length of wire with smalll insulated alligator clip on each end, I can use that to supply 12v to a cable then poke around at the other end with a simple test light ($3 at supercheap), when it lights up bingo found it...................... can go more tech with gadgets but often the old and simple wins with the wallet every time... BUT when you are testing stuff in van Never, Ever have it plugged into the 240 mains, mains lead should be pulled out, 240v switches are still live even when they are turned off...

 

[jazzeddie1234]

and I presume that also feeds my Alko ESC

Yes and setec aux in if you have one. The junction will be in the birds nest where the 12 pin wiring loom enters the van - usually on the rhs just behind the end of the A frame . Much easier to intercept the wire near the break away. The multi plug for mine is under a cover right next to it.

 

[facemir]

I have opened up the 12 pin plug and removed pin 2, and hooked up to my car. Alco ESC and Breakaway both stopped working. So I have reinstalled pin 2 and then gone inside to the cover right next the breakaway box. Inside this cover is a "multiplug" that all eight wires that go into the breakaway box is. So I just pulled the black wire out of the "multiplug". I then rechecked that my ESC still lit up, it did. So I will now go to Jaycar and see if I can buy the male connection of the "joiner" from the 240v plug and wire 12v to that. That way I still have the 240v setup that I can use if I ever need to. I will update this when I have finished.

 

[Drover]

Must be wired as @jazzeddie1234 described, the dreaded birds nest....

 

[facemir]

So you are saying I need a diode to stop it from back feeding into the house battery. ???