Towing Hybrid with a Jeep Grand Cherokee

[robertmasters]

Hello,
I have a 2016 jeep Grand Cherokee limited and towing a 23' hybrid. This is the first thing I hauled with this vehicle. It tows nice but when I merge onto the highway the RPM's get high. Is it better to manual shift(paddles) in this situation? Just curious of what you think is best in this situation.

 

[Hitting the road]

Hi Robert,

Horses for courses really...what ever you prefer, you didn't say whther you have a petrol or diesel. When towing with my diesel Jeep I use the paddles often, in fact probably 90% of the time when towing. It doesn't worry me, some driver's would find that silly and let the auto gearbox do the gear selection as necessary.

I use the paddles as I prefer the engine to be running around a comfortable 2000rpm where as it will drop to lower gears and then cause the gearbox to "hunt" a little between 7th & 8th if left to it's own devices.
Keeping in mind with the 8 speed 7th & 8th are overdrive gears, 6th is direct 1:1.
On the run at 100kmh I'll hold it in 7th gear a lot of the time, rarely using the 8th gear as the engine revs imo are too low and below the point it start develop it's torque. If you drive at 90kmh I'd definitely hold it in 7th gear.

By all means use the paddles when merging as the engine and gearbox imo will thank you for caring, manually hold a lower gear as you accelerate up to speed...again don't forget to flick the upshift as you speed up, the engine will quite happily spin to 3500 to 4000 rpm before it gets a little noisy.

Be interested to read other Jeep driver opinions...

 

[Drover]

Hi Robert,

Horses for courses really...what ever you prefer, you didn't say whther you have a petrol or diesel. When towing with my diesel Jeep I use the paddles often, in fact probably 90% of the time when towing. It doesn't worry me, some driver's would find that silly and let the auto gearbox do the gear selection as necessary.

I use the paddles as I prefer the engine to be running around a comfortable 2000rpm where as it will drop to lower gears and then cause the gearbox to "hunt" a little between 7th & 8th if left to it's own devices.
Keeping in mind with the 8 speed 7th & 8th are overdrive gears, 6th is direct 1:1.
On the run at 100kmh I'll hold it in 7th gear a lot of the time, rarely using the 8th gear as the engine revs imo are too low and below the point it start develop it's torque. If you drive at 90kmh I'd definitely hold it in 7th gear.

By all means use the paddles when merging as the engine and gearbox imo will thank you for caring, manually hold a lower gear as you accelerate up to speed...again don't forget to flick the upshift as you speed up, the engine will quite happily spin to 3500 to 4000 rpm before it gets a little noisy.

Be interested to read other Jeep driver opinions...

Thats interesting about your gear selection, mine will happily cruise along at 2K revs towing, doesn't hunt for a gear or lug, I use the paddles mostly going down big hills to drop down a few cogs. Cruising mine mostly needs holding back as it likes to run free so cruise gets used a lot when okay to do so.... Big Mal isn't a light weight either............. Temps for Tranny, Coolant and Oil increase about 2-3 degs from normal and Ive been surprised that I don't need to go manual, first auto that changes at the right time I have found, it mostly sits in 7th towing, exhaust temps in a good zone as well ........................... My Grand has just clocked 100K km so has had 2 tranny services with another in 30K km, I don't follow the book and run my own service schedule.. Best towing vehicle ever but sadly my last JGC as they have lost the plot.

 

[DRW]

I have an early model with a 5 speed box, since replacing it almost exactly a year ago at 220k I tow in 4th I seldom change gears manually (I don’t have many) but sometimes drive in sports mode which holds in gear longer, when merging I just put the pedal to the floor. I’ve just put a deposit on a soon to be released V6 Ford Everest I waited for a year or more for Jeep to confirm new models but like @Drover said they’re not interested in our market anymore, I’ll have to learn to drive a 10 speed soon, the last 10 speed I drove was rated to 45 Ton lol

 

[Hitting the road]

Thats interesting about your gear selection, mine will happily cruise along at 2K revs towing, doesn't hunt for a gear or lug, I use the paddles mostly going down big hills to drop down a few cogs. Cruising mine mostly needs holding back as it likes to run free so cruise gets used a lot when okay to do so.... Big Mal isn't a light weight either............. Temps for Tranny, Coolant and Oil increase about 2-3 degs from normal and Ive been surprised that I don't need to go manual, first auto that changes at the right time I have found, it mostly sits in 7th towing, exhaust temps in a good zone as well ........................... My Grand has just clocked 100K km so has had 2 tranny services with another in 30K km, I don't follow the book and run my own service schedule.. Best towing vehicle ever but sadly my last JGC as they have lost the plot.

Drover, I was thinking about your post, maybe the reason my Jeep will hunt a bit between 7th & 8th when towing at 95 - 100kmh could be due to the larger fat tyres on it dragging it down. The best fuel figure I have ever achieved with out the van on is 9.6 litres per 100km. But since fitting a full length roof rack, and adding some extra internal weight in drawers and stuff that has dropped to best 10.6 litres per 100km on the run.

With the van on the average I have got is around 14 litres per 100km at 95 kmh...ish, (van weighs 2600kg tandem axle) The worst I have got when I was hammering it a bit in some hilly and windy stuff was 17.3 litres per 100km.

I just prefer to use the paddles when cruising to keep the engine revs around the 2000rpm which often is 6th or 7th...at 80kmh it is 6th gear all the way. I have this fear about oil flow and oil pressure given the VM's bearing history. My Grand has 187k on it now...just run in as they say...

Gearbox temp will always sit around 90, it might go up a degree or two on a grade but then will drop back fairly quickly. Tranny isn't due for an oil and filter change for another 25k. I have to admit I don't use cruise at all with a load on it...

 

[Drover]

I never like 100K km tranny services on any vehicle, so by the time it was due for its first change it has had 2 with #3 not far away, I now use a 10W40 CJ4 oil in the engine, before was a 5W40 C3 and Penrite BMV in the tranny, at each 10K service it gets all new filters, oil,fuel,air, MAP sensor clean and catch can emptied ............................ Tyres size and type could be the problem, I have just the standard 265 18's on mine, LT Geolanders , towing I run from 14 - 19, depending on conditions but usually will be at 16, mostly try to cruise along at 90 but 100 or so isn't unheard of............. I was most impressed with this ZF box, monster hill towing for a test, lucky enough that a stop an go at the bottom, so a real good test and it changed just before I would have hit the paddles which surprised me, even though it does a good job in the hilly windy stuff I will use the paddles mainly to have it all preloaded for turns and braking but otherwise it stays in "D" for drag, it sits in the 1800-2000 rpm range, something I have never done in an auto towing............................... Solo running its 8.6 to 10 mostly 9.5, depends on soot oven burn offs......... You could be a lot heavier as well, the Grand doesn't have much load left once you drop a van on the ball and a couple of bums on seats especially if you have bar work, racks and drawers, I think mine is about 2.5t with 2 bums, full fuel and a 35kg bar and 30kg bash plates, 12kg awning so not a lot left once you drop a van on the back with a GVM of 2950 kg ? Empty mine is right on the front axle weight as well so I'd hate to think what things would be like with a steel bull bar and even a winch...

When I had a 5 speeder in the WG it was always hand select gears as well as in the Colorado, both boxes just got too hot if left to their own devices.

If you use this calculator it can show you the variation in tyre/wheel sizing. https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/

 

[Hitting the road]

Yeah, weight is the killer, and for economy aggressive tread patters. By my calculations the Jeep is at GVM now loaded with the accessories and necessities, tow ball download, fuel and bums anyway. I plan to run it on to a set of scales to find out what the true weight is as guesstimates can be very wrong... The van when loaded with full water will get a weigh as well being the Manufacturers weights given for tare are usually wrong too. I reckon it will be over ATM with both water tanks full...

 

[Drover]

Well Tare doesn't really exist unless you have your van loaded in its basic config, thats with its tools, screens, pegs and that stuff, before you add clothes, tucker, beer sort of thing and the same with the tug, weighed with a full tank of fuel, normal day to day car junk then you have the base line for seeing what you can add........ When you put your Grand on the scales the thing to check is the axle load not just the GVM, you can be good on GVM or even GCM but blow it all on axle load, something that most of the papers and magazines including the TV shows seem to miss in the weighing in saga......... Axle loadings for the diesel Grand are front 1.452t and rear 1.677t with a GVM 2.949t, not possible to increase that either no matter what sort of suspension fitted. Of course the GCM is dependant on who weighs you with their ticket book as nothing plated but its between 5.950t and 6449t, I'd go the 6.099t version, though towing anything over 2.8t doesn't really work out if you do the math, you will blow one of the standards each time or be leaving a lot of gear behind..... The old as the GVM increases, the tow capacity drops........... I run with one tank of water and no extra fuel until I'm where I need it out west, then she gets loaded up, not above axle loads though and not for long usually ....................... If your figuring out loads I use jerry cans full of water as test weights, 20Kg a pop so easy to move around the to see what happens.

I put a ball scale on Big Mal last year, was a bit startled by it as like me its increased with age, did some figures and couldn't find a few kgs, then found the new AC was 9kg more than old and the 200w panel was moved from over axles to front of van, AC was wider so panel didn't fit in old spot, add the new panels I fitted and bingo I found the extra kgs... I also suspect the new springs I fitted would have thrown a few new kgs in the mix as well as they have an extra leaf........ need to go over a bridge one day but its a 135km round trip...............

 

[Hitting the road]

individual axle weights are on the list. I do have a ball scale and weighed the hitch on my van not long ago and was 220kg with 2 x full water tanks and with the gas bottles in front, one was full and one probably about 25%, so the ball weight will be a tad higher with everything full. ...and that didn't include any extra stuff crammed in to the van when we go away., though the reality is there probably wouldn't be much more than maybe 30kg in total of stuff as we travel pretty light anyway. The folding chairs, table, BBQ, utensils, tarps, ropes, fishing gear, power cords etc etc etc were in the van when I weighed the hitch.

The van also has 2 x 20l Jerry cans on the back bumper so I can use that to balance if I need to, I don't like hanging stuff right at the back potentially creating a pendulum effect, hence I am seriously considering investing in a set of portable scales to get the correct individual axle weights, and allow me to muck about with side to side, front to back loading etc etc. The manufacturer's axle load capacity for the van is stated as 2667kg. Funny that the ATM is 2655kg!

I know Jayco have done ATM upgrades if necessary...and the van is capable...though it has a payload now of 575kg, so after full water 170kg = 405kg, less gas bottles 35kg = around 370kg for stuff, and that's fine for me. Though by my calculations now with all the "stuff" the van is actually over by about 10kg. But then by half emtying both water tanks to keep the balace would give me 80kg's back.

My theory is too with the tug, after a 100k's driving off full tanks I'll lose about 15kg's anyway... I know I'll be bouncing around GVM with the accessories fitted anyway so don't have much to play with....I might have to go on a diet!

 

[Drover]

So they pushed the ATM to just under axle cap, what did they mark out as GTM on it then ? I have seen some plates that just don't add up....

I too have thought about getting a set of scales, be handy to do Jeep and van, my jerries are mounted on the rear but don't induce any swing but when they are full the water tanks are full as well so while it all balances it would probably pop the scales but still be under axle and tyre loadings and under ball weight.... need to get a new plate as I have 400kgs to play with on axle caps... Just finding someone who will do it and not want to give me a complete suspension upgrade which isn't needed.

When you put it on the scales they should go front axle, both then the whole rig, then van axles, unhitch and put tug back on for axles, the math then will show ball weight .... or some combination of that anyway... either way none of them should be over and should in fact be under.... Some of these jacks can be 15kg so add a WDH its a lot of hidden kgs.

Ive trimmed down my tools and spares a lot, just a spare set of filters, if oil needed will get it on the road and some basic tools, that saved probably 40kgs or more, I was big on tools once. The Weber stays at home as well... bit of a waste for 2 chops or a couple of bangers.

 

[Hitting the road]

They did get the weights right...if they are right of course. Plate reads; Empty Ball Mass 152kg, ATM 2655kg...GTM 2503kg...so 2503kg + 152kg = ATM 2655kg.
Tare it reads is 2080kg, but is that right? I don't know, i read somewhere that Jayco weigh each van individually before delivery to the Dealer, that's all good of course, but was there anything added by the Dealer?

My van has the upgraded larger 2 door fridge and also a grey water tank. It has brackets at the back for 2 x Jerry cans, as well as a bike rack. (NB: I will never use the bike rack!) Were the upgrades fitted by the Dealer or Jayco?

The only way I am going to find out what the real tare is would be by emptying it out and weighing it bare. Then I can add what I need to to reach it's ATM. That's where having my own scales would be sooo much easier...plus getting the tugs weights right too.
I see the Reich scale is available for $400.00...just the one of course.

Reich Caravan Weight Control Scales Orange 1500kg

Easy to use caravan weight checker, just drive slowly over the scale! Large LCD display for your caravan weight control

www.rvpartsexpress.com.au

i have a 2.2kva generator I want to stick in the front boot of the van, haven't tried it yet don't even know whether it will fit! It weighs in at 25kg so that's another reason to get the weights right. Plus Solar panels under the bed up front will all add up...even the heavy long solar cables I made up would probably weigh 8kgs!

I have ditched the WDH, I was never a real fan of them, they came with the van. And yes there would be at least 20kg in the hitch, the bars and the brackets. The Bride hated them anyway as they groaned from time to time when cornering and she thought the van was falling off.
When I put a stone guard on the draw bar there was just no room left for them as there is a tool box there with all the tarps in it. The set up sits level anyway, and I was never inclined to get out and unhook them when ever I was going on to uneven ground. It tows flat and comfy without them.

Like you I try to carry bare necessities tool wise. But I know with all the bits fitted and necessary tools I would be very close or even a bit over GVM once fueled and 2 x bods on board.

(I do take the BBQ, as we always cook outside, though I have an el cheapo Weber lookalike Jumbuck from Bunnings, it fits under the bed nicely and only weighs 20kg in it's carry bag.)

 

[Drover]

With all that stuff why even care what the tare once was and never will be again..... I cannot understand this thing about Tare, it is meaningless as it doesn't exist, the main thing is ATM if your over then you must throw stuff out and what you need to do to weigh your van properly is get the tow ball weight, then subtract that from the ATM that will give you the maximum GTM you can have at that point in time, you will notice that the GTM on the plate won't match as the ATM is a combination of tow ball and Axle weight, as the tow ball weight increases the GTM decreases, the weight has to move and the ATM cannot change..... Same with most tugs as the vehicle weight increases the tow ball capacity will decrease, depending on vehicle.
Of course every time the tow ball changes so does your GTM... its easy once you get the hang of it all.......

Your 220 kg ball weight will rise a good 30kg with the genny, the Catch 22 is you add 40 lts of fuel at the back to counter balance, again distance etc matters, and you find you have blown the revised GTM........ also dual axles don't throw the weight like a single......

VAN: ATM minus tow ball weight equals GTM ....................... TUG: GVM minus tow ball weight shows how much bum room you have left.

PS: If you buy those scales you can come up here and I'll take you for a boat ride, have a nice set up for a van to park here.....power, water, dump point.... doubly welcome if you can catch fish .................................

 

[Hitting the road]

With all that stuff why even care what the tare once was and never will be again..... I cannot understand this thing about Tare, it is meaningless as it doesn't exist, the main thing is ATM if your over then you must throw stuff out and what you need to do to weigh your van properly is get the tow ball weight, then subtract that from the ATM that will give you the maximum GTM you can have at that point in time, you will notice that the GTM on the plate won't match as the ATM is a combination of tow ball and Axle weight, as the tow ball weight increases the GTM decreases, the weight has to move and the ATM cannot change..... Same with most tugs as the vehicle weight increases the tow ball capacity will decrease, depending on vehicle.
Of course every time the tow ball changes so does your GTM... its easy once you get the hang of it all.......

Your 220 kg ball weight will rise a good 30kg with the genny, the Catch 22 is you add 40 lts of fuel at the back to counter balance, again distance etc matters, and you find you have blown the revised GTM........ also dual axles don't throw the weight like a single......

VAN: ATM minus tow ball weight equals GTM ....................... TUG: GVM minus tow ball weight shows how much bum room you have left.

PS: If you buy those scales you can come up here and I'll take you for a boat ride, have a nice set up for a van to park here.....power, water, dump point.... doubly welcome if you can catch fish .................................

LOL...I do pass through your way from time to time...
I agree, tare means nought in the scheme of things, it's what it weighs with all the stuff that matters, Though it's just nice to know what it weighs without all the stuff...

Being I have a tow hitch scale no drama to weigh that end, it's just the axles of course, the important bit. I'll report back with updates...