Problem with 12V in 16.49 expanda

Tailor

Member
Jun 2, 2012
87
7
8
Newport Qld
I haven't had to use the van away from 240V but did lose lights when a park had a pwer failure.
Checking out the battery cables, the connectors seemed to be attached lightly with side cutters and the cables just pulled out which didn't thrill me. I replaced them and used decent crimpers, so thought the problem was solved.
Today my son borrowed the van, and tried the lights with no 240V attached. No result. Switch the 12V switch both on and off , still no result. Checked the battery which was 12.7 V.

Am I missing something here?

Any instructions or advice would be useful.

Cheers
 

Jim and Tab

New Member
Jul 29, 2011
149
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0
Bendigo Victoria
Might be as simple as the fuse for the battery at the inverter blown
if your using 240 volt it converts to 12 but when the battery is wired up im pretty sure there is a fuse in the inverter for the battery
maybe the dodgy wiring shorted the fuse
Hope its something as simple as that
cheers jim/tab and diamonde
 

relgate

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Staff member
Feb 2, 2012
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I might be completely wrong, but shouldnt the battery be more like 13 or 14? Is 12.7 effectively flat? I'm sure one of the electrical boffins can answer this more precisely
 

chartrock

Forum Patriarch
Staff member
Sep 26, 2010
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Gold Coast Hinterland
12.7v should still light a LED lamp. My 12v switch was put on upside down so nothing was operating when the swith was in what I thought was the on position. I'd check the switch wiring as that switch has to be on to run from 12v only.
 

boots33

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2011
708
679
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Maudsland Gold Coast Hinterland Qld
I might be completely wrong, but shouldnt the battery be more like 13 or 14? Is 12.7 effectively flat? I'm sure one of the electrical boffins can answer this more precisely

Hey Relgate
12.7v is correct for a battery that is not on charge. When charging you should get around the 14v mark. the voltage for a battery at rest to be considered fully charged is between 12.6 and 12.9 depending on the battery type.
 

boots33

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2011
708
679
93
Maudsland Gold Coast Hinterland Qld
I haven't had to use the van away from 240V but did lose lights when a park had a pwer failure.
Checking out the battery cables, the connectors seemed to be attached lightly with side cutters and the cables just pulled out which didn't thrill me. I replaced them and used decent crimpers, so thought the problem was solved.
Today my son borrowed the van, and tried the lights with no 240V attached. No result. Switch the 12V switch both on and off , still no result. Checked the battery which was 12.7 V.

Am I missing something here?

Any instructions or advice would be useful.

Cheers
Hi Tailor
have a look at the post i did in this thread http://www.expandasdownunder.com/showthread.php/1232-Info-on-installing-battery-16-49-2/page2 and you will see the main power circuit is pretty simple, so not a lot to go wrong. you are on the right track checking connections etc you will have to check the connection at the setec unit to see if power is getting through. the battery positive is connected to the BATT+VE terminal and the earth is connected to the BATT-VE terminal. There are usually two fuses in this circuit, an inline one at the battery and the fuse marked BAT in the setec. one of the fuses is most likley the problem. The main switch could also be at fault so if the fuses are ok you will have to follow the circuit along until you find the open circuit. The setec unit also has a low voltage cutout that will disconnect the battery at 10.5v but at 12.7v you will be fine.(unless the setec is faulty)
 

Tailor

Member
Jun 2, 2012
87
7
8
Newport Qld
Thank you all for your great replies, they are much appreciated.

I don't think its the switch as we tried that both on and off, which should have shown a result one way or another. It really annoys me when electrical connections are not one correctly. Even for an amateur it's not hard to do 12V properly. The enclosed photo is my aux battery setup in a toolbox on my tray.

Fuses: How silly of me not to arrive at that conclusion but we only found the problem when he was going to drive off with the van. He being a sparkie should discover the problem, but I don't think he is a clued up as I am on 12V systems. I'll go around to his place and do a check on the fuses later today.

Cheers

John IMG_0231.JPG
 

relgate

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Staff member
Feb 2, 2012
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Hey Relgate
12.7v is correct for a battery that is not on charge. When charging you should get around the 14v mark. the voltage for a battery at rest to be considered fully charged is between 12.6 and 12.9 depending on the battery type.

Ahhh. Now that makes sense. Thanks for your input Boots.
 

boots33

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2011
708
679
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Maudsland Gold Coast Hinterland Qld
Thank you all for your great replies, they are much appreciated.

I don't think its the switch as we tried that both on and off, which should have shown a result one way or another.

If turning on the switch makes no difference this could mean the switch is faulty, the only way to check is to remove the switch and test it at the terminals on the back. If it is a simple switch like mine you will have only 2 wires connected to it, one will usually have bat+ all the time and the other should get power when the switch is turned on. Your set-up is obviously quite different to mine but the principals remain the same. Does your van still have a setec or does it have some other supply. I see that in your picture there is a small blue wire connected to the main battery cable, it will be outside the protection of your fuse panel so if it doesn't already have an inline fuse fitted you may want to add one for safety.
 
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Tailor

Member
Jun 2, 2012
87
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Newport Qld
Hi boots33,

Sorry I've confused you with my photo. That was only to illustrate how I do my own wiring in a general way. The blue wire is part of the battery management system.


Back to the Jayco. Tested the switch with a multimeter and it was fine.

Just to be safe I dragged my son out of bed seeing we could be dealing with 240V. I've got an ST20 series 11, and went to check the inline fuse from the battery (which isn't there). Disconnected from the 240V first naturally. All fuses on the panel looked OK. Checked the voltage and it's still at 12.7V, so he connected the 240V and tested the charge to the battery, which still only showed 12.7 instead of the expected 13-14V. Pulled the ST20 out and lo and behold, spade terminals just fell off. A closer inspection showed one had arced and completely melted. He said it was just completely shoddy workmanship, and explains why we have had trouble from day one with no 12V lights or fridge. Unfortunately we have only stayed on powered sites so hadn't really been affected. The photo may give you an idea of the problem. Looks to me like I need a new ST20, grrrr.

If you are wondering how I still have a charged battery, I charge it from my ute via an anderson plug.

Apart from the lousy way they attach their terminals, I'll bet they didn't check that the spade terminals were tight when assembled. With 12V lights and fridge not working at the start, I doubt that the 3500 klms we have done would have loosened everything. Not happy Jan.

Unfortunately the van is second hand, although it was only 8 months old when we bought it in 2009.



photo 3.JPG.
 

Burnsy

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2012
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Newcastle
Hi Tailor,

I pulled my setec unit out a while ago so i could wire in a 12v water pump and found lose terminals to, i just squashed a bit with pliers and pushed back on even though you should't have to do this! Stange about the missing fuse though, makes me wonder if there was a problem before? Might be worth pulling the setec appart and see if you can attatch a new spade terminal, could save you some $$$$ :)

Cheers.
 

Tailor

Member
Jun 2, 2012
87
7
8
Newport Qld
Hi Burnsy,

Interesting you also had similar problems. Any electrical connection should be secure to avoid overheating and possibly worse. I get the shivers thinking of towing a van which could have burst into flames.

I think the fuse was not there from new judging by the spade connector, and my son tells me it really isn't needed there. I don't think attaching another terminal is an option as looking from the outside it appears to mave fried part of the main board. May be able to replace the board if I can get one. I contacted the manufacturers of the setec when I first had the problem, but am still waiting for an answer to my email. Typical of support from some companies. Also emailed Jayco for some info mid week, but am yet to receive a reply. I'll probably phone them Monday and see if I can stir up an answer.

Cheers

John
 

Burnsy

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2012
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Newcastle
Hi John,

Fair enough, if you need to replace boards maybe just buy another unit, probably on the shelf at Jayco they are at Newcastle anyway!

Cheers.
 
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boots33

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2011
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I think the fuse was not there from new judging by the spade connector, and my son tells me it really isn't needed there.

The inline fuse should be placed as close as practical to the battery itself, without it there is no protection for the main feed to the setec. As you have shown in your pic the insulation has melted off one the terminals, if this happened to the main feed and it had also permanently shorted to the chassis you would certainly have had the fire you want to avoid. I would add the fuse it is cheap insurance. Just looking at the way the wires are exposed on some of the backs of those terminals gives a good idea of the quality of work.
 
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Tailor

Member
Jun 2, 2012
87
7
8
Newport Qld
Good advice from both. I hadn't thought of trying the local dealers for a new unit, so will try tomorrow.

I'll also include an inline fuse as you advise boots33. I understand that Jaycos are mass produced but I was disgusted with the overall quality of the electrical work in this van. When replacing the unit I will be replacing all the connectors, with proper crimping and heat shrink. I'll also check any of the other wiring for faulty connections. I think I was pretty lucky to avoid a fire as a number of the terminals had melted.

Again thanks for your advice, cheers

John
 

ElectricGuru

Member
Sep 5, 2011
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SE Brisbane
When replacing the unit I will be replacing all the connectors, with proper crimping and heat shrink.

Hey Tailor

Shame about all the trouble you have had, generally Jayco are good but as Boots would agree sometimes you get a Friday van...:tsk:

Personal preference for me but I also crimp and then solder all connections.

Regards

Gil

PS Boffin is fine but I also like the term "propeller head" lol ;)
 
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macca

(aka maccayak)
Mar 20, 2012
1,660
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Victoria
I would think it is a simple circuit board so should be possible to fix. I get circuit boards repaired all the time in my work and it can save the customer $100's. But if the board/unit is cheap, say around $150 then buy a new one.

Geoff
 
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Tailor

Member
Jun 2, 2012
87
7
8
Newport Qld
Hi Gil,

Today I bit the bullet and "shudder" bought another ST20 ($407), as my son needs the fridge going by Friday. When picking it up I mentioned the connections to the salesguy. He said that Jayco had had a lot of quality control problems but had been adddressing and fixing them.

I'm with you on crimping and soldering connections. In my boat I crimp, solder and paint with liquid lectric tape. Did that on one boat and had no electrical pain for 10 years. Some guys don't like it as you can get a dry joint, but again, done properly is pretty secure.

Cheers

John
 

Tailor

Member
Jun 2, 2012
87
7
8
Newport Qld
Hi Geoff,

Time constraint made me take the expensive option. When I get the old unit out I'll open it up and see what the real damage is. Also have to find out if I can get a replacement board. Sent an email to the supplier/manufacturers a couple of years ago about my problem, but was not surprised to be still waiting a reply. I think chances of getting a board are slim as the unit is made in Malaysia.

If the negative busbar is a simple fix I'll add to this post so others will benefit.

Cheers

John