20' Series MORE AND HOTTER HOT WATER NEEDED

[Macropod]

We have a 2o.63.1 with the Suburban storage HWS. Now its not a bad system but you only really get 1 decent hot shower out of a tank and then you have a 15 minute wait for another dose of hot water. I have looked at the Girard Endless systems but the temperature rise is 15-25 deg C which when you have winter temp water coming in - you get a luke warm shower. The storage units are great as they heat the water mass to a decent temp where-as the temp of water in instant units is a function of inlet water temp + pressure + time in the heating coil so you are limited to a set temp rise. Thinking about using something like a Joocla to preheat the water coming into the suburban. Sounds like a bit of a muck around (why not just pull the suburban out and use the Joocla ? - temp rise on the Joocla is also not enough to get steaming hot water in the winter) but you could easily mount one on the A frame - water is there, gas is there, and run the hot water outlet line to the Suburban HWS inlet. Just putting it out there for comment !

 

[Bushman]

I was speaking to a dealer about the new (been around for a while) gas only instantaneous HWS. they are the same physical size in external dimensions as the suburban but have no tank/anode.
he said they had fitted one for a customer who loved it, till they went free camping, apparently the pumps in the vans don't have the required pressure to keep the system flowing properly for it work, but works a treat on mains pressure, so as long as you have gas and mains water you can shower as long as you like.
He also said he wasn't sure if the manufacture had resolved the issue or a bigger pump would be required.

Found a link Endless Hot Water

 

[Crusty181]

We have a 2o.63.1 with the Suburban storage HWS. Now its not a bad system but you only really get 1 decent hot shower out of a tank and then you have a 15 minute wait for another dose of hot water. I have looked at the Girard Endless systems but the temperature rise is 15-25 deg C which when you have winter temp water coming in - you get a luke warm shower. The storage units are great as they heat the water mass to a decent temp where-as the temp of water in instant units is a function of inlet water temp + pressure + time in the heating coil so you are limited to a set temp rise. Thinking about using something like a Joocla to preheat the water coming into the suburban. Sounds like a bit of a muck around (why not just pull the suburban out and use the Joocla ? - temp rise on the Joocla is also not enough to get steaming hot water in the winter) but you could easily mount one on the A frame - water is there, gas is there, and run the hot water outlet line to the Suburban HWS inlet. Just putting it out there for comment !

How long are we calling a "decent shower" time.

 

[rodney]

The mains pressure is lower than pump with a shy reflow fitted

The flow may be problem I can see what the flow is at work as don't have that info on my phone

 

[Macropod]

Crusty - Decent shower time = shower + hair + shave + stand there with no kids bugging you under hot water with lots of steam relaxing for a while.

 

[Bellbirdweb]

I have ours on 240v for most use (washing up etc), however, also found it was running out when showering.

I've found that switching on the gas and the 240v seems to make it last longer and recover faster between showers.

 

[Crusty181]

Crusty - Decent shower time = shower + hair + shave + stand there with no kids bugging you under hot water with lots of steam relaxing for a while.

I was interested in the how much shower time a 22ltr tank will allow, but that sounds like a shower I could live with ..... Ill even happily wait the 15min for it to cycle

 

[Drover]

City folk, lol,lol,lol, we have tank water at home and a decent shower for my kids was 10 min but I would shut the hot off after 4, a normal one I reckon is 3min, if your dirty wet down, turn off, soap and scrub up, wash off.........works well in a van also where you need to conserve water which is the same at most places outside the city's. But then townies seem to like standing there getting wet for no reason, until I turn the pump off.

 

[macca]

Like Bellbird said, try using it on power and gas. You just have to plan your hot water use and give it time. The Girard unit looks OK, but I don't think you will need to. Don't go pre heating your water. Don't know why Jayco don't knock on Rinnai's door and put recessed Rinnai Infinities in. Cordless temperature control, no tempering valves etc etc.
http://www.rinnai.com.au/hot-water/continuous-flow-hot-water-systems/infinity/

 

[Macropod]

Been running the unit on both power and gas so that the reheat time is as quick as possible - but being impatient and wasteful townies that's just not cutting it. When you have 4 to shower - you just need a bit more hot water. The way I figure it is that I have spent a motza on my glampervan with a shower installed so the least I should expect is more than 5 minutes of watery bliss. If I wanted to have fast showers I would have bought a tent and a portashower. Just doing my bit for the environment by lowering the water table in preparation for the influx of water when the icecaps and glaciers all melt - heck - we all need to take long showers to avoid losing our coastline and all the great camping spots we love !

One thing we have noticed is that the gas heating does not roar into action until at least halfway through the tank - I guess when the temp gets to its low setpoint. Would be good if there was a way for the gas to kick in a bit earlier to get the water coming into the tank to a decent temp. We are also changing the showerhead to a more efficient one to see if that conserves the hot water a bit.

 

[Bellbirdweb]

@Macropod , if you are already using both power and gas, there is something not right.

Being as I'm also a wasteful townie, I actually timed how long before it ran out on me last time we used it, and it started running cold in just under 10 minutes.

By the time I had dried off and dressed my wife had a fully hot and normal shower after me.

I can hear the gas kick in after a couple of minutes.

 

[Drover]

@Macropod brilliant explanation, sorry I just can't help throwing a line out sometimes but I can now take longer in the shower and not feel guilty, just won't explain it to my kids when they visit or my tanks will be empty in no time.

With only 2 of us it's okay if there's a bit of a delay between use but other than trying an instant HWS which I haven't heard great reports of in vans another option would be what friends who were on the fruit picking circuit did, was they installed a small 240v household unit in their rig which did okay for the three of them after being in the paddock all day, so they weren't having short tubs either, just don't know what size it was.

 

[Capt. Gadget]

We have really only used ours when free camping and always use it like Drover said wet down turn off soap up rinse off. That way you use less water. When In Caravan Parks we use their facilities

 

[Macropod]

Thanks guys. Just installed a new showerhead so see if that makes a difference. I guess that the water during our last trip was a bit on the cold side coming into the van (we were at the snow - so the incoming water was below 10 degrees). Perhaps with the more efficient showerhead, the water will have a bit more time in the tank to heat. The other possibility is that time is standing still while we are in the shower and what we think is 5 minutes is actually 10. Think I will time how long the hot lasts next time just to see if my steamy nirvana is also slowing down time (or at least my perception of time) If we were running on the tanks we would definitely use Drovers quick and soapy method - but while we have town water......I am gunning for the steam room method.

 

[Crusty181]

Another wasteful Townie here (but wasteful with a purpose). We have a magnificent, but idle, desalination plant that hasn't been switched on yet. The more water I waste, the more likely we'll all get to experience the sooper dooper investment the State Government made on my behalf; bless'em.

I'm planning to install and alternate a lower ltr/min pump along side the factory unit to conserve water and increase shower times when free camping. Ill use the lower capacity pump for free camping and bigger one in the caravan parks. I can't start experimenting for another month, when our new van is due to arrive. In the mean time, does anyone know which side of the hot water service the pump is connected i.e. does it push the water or draw the water through the hot water service.

 

[Bellbirdweb]

@Crusty181 you could potentially achieve what you want using a valve in line to restrict the flow.

Might be simpler than 2 pumps.

 

[Crusty181]

A valve you suggest, like a tap to choke the flow?? That might do the job.

 

[Bellbirdweb]

A valve you suggest, like a tap to choke the flow?? That might do the job.

Exactly. Will increase pressure but reduce flow.

 

[macca]

The water coming out of you shower head without any cold mixed should be 50degC. Make sure you get that first.

Then calculate how many litres per minute your shower head does. Your hws is from memory 22Litres, round that up to 30 because you will mix with cold then divide by your shower head volume.
Eg: 30L Divided by 6L (show'hd) equals 5 mins of hot water...roughly.

You have to remember that a lot of vans free camp. You have to use your hot water wisely. Jayco's system is pretty good really.

 

[rodney]

Another wasteful Townie here (but wasteful with a purpose). We have a magnificent, but idle, desalination plant that hasn't been switched on yet. The more water I waste, the more likely we'll all get to experience the sooper dooper investment the State Government made on my behalf; bless'em.

I'm planning to install and alternate a lower ltr/min pump along side the factory unit to conserve water and increase shower times when free camping. Ill use the lower capacity pump for free camping and bigger one in the caravan parks. I can't start experimenting for another month, when our new van is due to arrive. In the mean time, does anyone know which side of the hot water service the pump is connected i.e. does it push the water or draw the water through the hot water service.

The pump pushes the water in to the hws