How to raise Ford Falcon FG MK II rear suspension

Boots in Action

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Interesting reading re autos. I have been monitoring my trans temps for a while now and with a bigger heavier van coming I will be interested in any change in temp and if I go down the tranny cooler path or not.

@Boots in Action the scenario you described when your light came on would probably be the same even with a tranny cooler. Driving at 20 or 30km you wouldn’t get enough air flow for the tranny cooler to help and it would of got just as hot. Now that you can see what’s happening with your temp gauges you could drive to suit and reduce temps. (Edit ive changed my mind , with a decent thermo fan attached to the cooler it would help),

Change my “sealed box” at 45k and all looked good but happy I didn’t leave it any longer. My temps will sit on 97 / 98 all day reagardless of how I drive. Around town, freeway manually selecting or left in auto. It takes a while to slowly climb but after 40ish mins it will hit the same temps every time. This is all with out towing. Even a beach run for about 2 hours it never hit 100 which surprised me.

Towing it wanted to sit at around 106 with the highest ever recorded was 109 up a very long incline sitting on 100km/h. I was in touch with local auto shop and these temps are normal and he didn’t recommend a cooler yet as I mentioned getting a heavier van and my concerns so his advice was to monitor temps with new van first. While still under warranty adding a cooler may give ford an out as they do not even offer one as an option but after warranty is finished I can see myself probably fitting one.

Only thing that caught my eye in above comments was regarding engine temps being affected by trans temp? What the theory behind this. I would of thought the radiator temp is going to be lower then engine temp and will regulate flow through the thermostate. It would only be when the radiator can’t keep up that outside influences like tranny could hurt it even more and then raise temps. As long as the radiator has enough cooling capacity it should keep engine at correct temps even if trans is boiling itself to pieces.

Hi @JT76 , thanks for your thoughts on what may have happened to my tug when pulling hard at low speeds, especially if ambient temp is high. The worst thing about all that was that I had no idea tranny temp was getting into the danger zone. Now that I have sensors monitoring what's happening in REAL time and telling me on screen, I think that it will certainly be better than "not knowing". Yes, an oil cooler would help when air flow was high. But the provision of a thermally controlled fan would be the answer if air flow was low and temp high - just like water cooling through radiator for engine. But is it needed in all cases?? Only monitoring like your local auto shop advised can tell, as each case (and tug and load) are different. Note my Colorado engine temp has never shown higher than 83C since fitting sensors which is a lot lower than your tug. Perhaps it is because I have no (or less) obstructions to air flow at front of tug. @Drover brought up this point when comparing his tug to friend's who had oil cooler fitted but more equipment attached to front of his tug - restricting air flow somewhat???
Do not forget that the engine temp is sensed just BEFORE water from hot engine goes to thermo and then through radiator for cooling. The heat exchanger for the tranny is normally at the bottom of radiator where the "coolest" water should be (after going through an efficient?? radiator) and therefore should be able to cool the tranny fluid somewhat. However, in doing so, it raises the temp of water going back into engine again. So if cooling margins are small, there is the potential for tranny temp to be not cooled properly which gets hotter and then heats up the engine temp also. It could also work in reverse if engine is not cooled down in the first place (partially blocked radiator?) resulting in less cooling ability for tranny fluid.
My full test comes up this weekend. I will let you know what transpires.
 
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JT76

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Thanks @Boots in Action the temps I was mentioning were my tranny temps. Engine sits at about 89ish and doesn't move too far from there. It may go a 91ish them drops back down as thermostat opens up. I guess I agree if cooling ability is marginal and trans cooler is built into radiator. My car I believe doesn't have it in radiator but has a small heat exchanger on side of case. While coolant runs through this to help tranny warm up quicker while cold and I guess helps to cool while warm I doubt it would affect engine temps in my case as it's a small unit.

Will be interested to hear your temps after a good run towing now that's its monitored.
 
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Drover

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Well i just dragged Big Mal from Adelong to Jingellic, now I can tell you Batlow and Tumbarumba have some BBH's (Big Bluddy Hills) and putting the Ute in manual I managed to keep my temps down to mid to high 90's most impressed, did get up to 105 but we were dragging for ages in 2nd and 3rd but dropped back quickly. I hate hills, so busy with temps, gear selection and road miss the views...................if I had left it in auto it would have been hotter for sure by at least 10 degs from testing I have done this trip.
 

bigcol

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in answer to a semi un-asked question by @Boots in Action while pondering the heat absorption / dissipation of the trans cooler in the radiator........

temp gauge in dash is NOT accurate, unless it is in degrees (which manufacturers will not fit)

water boils at 100*C - everyone knows this as truth

water in sealed radiator boils at 120*C - 130*C plus..................

why.....?

it is a sealed container, with no option for the water to turn to steam until it gets REAL hot

Auto Trans fluid boils at 115*C in an open pot
Auto Trans Fluid boils at 180*C plus in your transmission -

why.....?

again, it is a sealed unit
what it does do is when it gets real hot, it starts to destroy the friction bands in the Auto

so, moral of the story

hot temps will destroy Auto Trans, but only if your doing it continuously, peaking at 120-130 for small amounts of time, while not healthy, is not dangerous
 

Boots in Action

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in answer to a semi un-asked question by @Boots in Action while pondering the heat absorption / dissipation of the trans cooler in the radiator........

temp gauge in dash is NOT accurate, unless it is in degrees (which manufacturers will not fit)

water boils at 100*C - everyone knows this as truth

water in sealed radiator boils at 120*C - 130*C plus..................

why.....?

it is a sealed container, with no option for the water to turn to steam until it gets REAL hot

Auto Trans fluid boils at 115*C in an open pot
Auto Trans Fluid boils at 180*C plus in your transmission -

why.....?

again, it is a sealed unit
what it does do is when it gets real hot, it starts to destroy the friction bands in the Auto

so, moral of the story

hot temps will destroy Auto Trans, but only if your doing it continuously, peaking at 120-130 for small amounts of time, while not healthy, is not dangerous

Hi @bigcol, water in motor vehicles does boil at a higher temp (than in the open) because the radiator cap has a spring behind the seal and keeps the cooling system pressurised when it expands as it gets hotter. However, the expanded hot radiator coolant will force (lift) this seal up and let pressure (and water) out when hot enough. The boiling point is increased in proportion to the pressure the water is under. That's why you need a good radiator cap. The reverse happens when low atmospheric pressure (as in high mountainous places) allows water to boil at well under 100 C. (as in boiling the billy for coffee or tea!!)
I understand that tranny oil boils at only 115 C at normal atmospheric pressure (open to the air) . Your transmission system is sealed as I remember, which enables the tranny fluid to work at much higher temps (without boiling) than those that have a dip-stick opening. Unfortunately?? my Colorado has that opening to the atmosphere called a dip stick where boiling fluid (or foam) will discharge when boiling temps are reached and sustained (or if overfilled!!!!).
With a "sealed system", I guess when tranny oil gets really hot, expands and wants to boil at the higher (pressured) temps, it is the "O" rings and other seals that have to take the build up of pressure.

Still, the morals of your message are absolutely correct. Keep tranny temp within the safety range (as per my link in previous message # 55) to extend the life of the transmission, not to mention save a lot of unnecessary expense too!!
 
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Drover

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I don't have water in my engine cooling system.............................

Trannies aren't sealed even those without a dip stick, some still have the tube with just a plastic lock cap covering the hole while others will have a nylon/plastic screw in bung where the tube is placed during checks. At least with 4x4's the transmission (auto and manual) and transfer case usually have a breather to keep the oil from blowing out seals and if driving into water stop the case from sucking in thru the seals, same with diffs.
The sealed transmission is a manufacturer furphy to allow them to cut back on service costs.
 
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Boots in Action

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I don't have water in my engine cooling system.............................

Trannies aren't sealed even those without a dip stick, some still have the tube with just a plastic lock cap covering the hole while others will have a nylon/plastic screw in bung where the tube is placed during checks. At least with 4x4's the transmission (auto and manual) and transfer case usually have a breather to keep the oil from blowing out seals and if driving into water stop the case from sucking in thru the seals, same with diffs.
The sealed transmission is a manufacturer furphy to allow them to cut back on service costs.

Yes, sorry about that @Drover regarding "water in radiator". Professional people like you would pick that up!! I should have said "radiator fluid" or "liquid" to cover all the different type of radiator fluids.
Thanks for the info on "breathers" on supposed sealed auto transmissions. I wondered how expanding fluids would be held in the system. So in your opinion, if the tranny is NOT hermetically sealed, there can be no real control of temperature under pressure other the slight spring/valve system in breather. That means that the relative temps in "sealed" and "unsealed" trannies is just about the same. Puts my theories out the door!!! I knew that manual transmissions and diffs had "breather caps"' in cars too, as even my old Valiant had them - consisting of a small nipple coming out of top of gearbox and small tube out of axle housing for the diff. Consisted of small rubber washer held against the outlet by a small spring, all housed in some light tube. I have known of people blowing rear axle oil seals (at the wheels) when these breathers have been blocked by "gunk" after long hot drives. I learn something new every day..
 
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Drover

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. I learn something new every day..

I'm sure you knew just at our age the grey cells have so much info it takes awhile to float to the surface...

Coolant is the magic word, depending on the mix ratio the boiling temp can increase or decrease...........................................On many vehicles I have removed the dinky diff/gear box breathers and replaced with a tube that runs up into engine bay away from water/dirt/dust ingress and stuck an old petrol fuel filter on the end........nothing worse than blowing the diff seal because grease and crud have blocked the breather in fact I reckon a few gearboxes have leaky shaft seals for the that reason.....if the gearbox pressurised you would have shift problems whether manual or auto as the fluid would be very hydraulic and restrictive......

I think we may have wandered a bit off topic.......................................
 
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Boots in Action

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Thanks @Boots in Action the temps I was mentioning were my tranny temps. Engine sits at about 89ish and doesn't move too far from there. It may go a 91ish them drops back down as thermostat opens up. I guess I agree if cooling ability is marginal and trans cooler is built into radiator. My car I believe doesn't have it in radiator but has a small heat exchanger on side of case. While coolant runs through this to help tranny warm up quicker while cold and I guess helps to cool while warm I doubt it would affect engine temps in my case as it's a small unit.

Will be interested to hear your temps after a good run towing now that's its monitored.

Hi @Drover and @JT76 and @mikerezny , details of tranny temp test has been posted on new thread "Transmission temps whilst towing. Do I need an oil cooler?" Should start some interesting posts.
 

mikerezny

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Hi,
we have all had our share of negative experiences with retailers, so it is great to be able to post a good news story.

Went to test and adjust the pressures in the air bags that were fitted to my Falcon a couple of months ago by Peddars in Moorabbin. Found out I had a sticky valve that wouldn't seal properly after I took the air hose off. Damn! It should be under warranty but it is a 25 odd km return drive to the dealer.

Being a tight a*&^*^8ss, I sent them an email on Monday outlining the problem and asked if they would pop one or two valve stems in the mail to me.
Came home this afternoon and found a package with two complete valve assemblies in it. No postmark. They had been hand delivered.
I also had an email from the manager, Nick, apologising for taking so long to get them to me!!!!!

Made my day!

So they have now gone into my book of "Good Guys".

cheers
Mike
 

Boots in Action

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Mar 13, 2017
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Hi,
we have all had our share of negative experiences with retailers, so it is great to be able to post a good news story.

Went to test and adjust the pressures in the air bags that were fitted to my Falcon a couple of months ago by Peddars in Moorabbin. Found out I had a sticky valve that wouldn't seal properly after I took the air hose off. Damn! It should be under warranty but it is a 25 odd km return drive to the dealer.

Being a tight a*&^*^8ss, I sent them an email on Monday outlining the problem and asked if they would pop one or two valve stems in the mail to me.
Came home this afternoon and found a package with two complete valve assemblies in it. No postmark. They had been hand delivered.
I also had an email from the manager, Nick, apologising for taking so long to get them to me!!!!!

Made my day!

So they have now gone into my book of "Good Guys".

cheers
Mike

Good on you @mikerezny , you have to win sometimes. But it is rare to receive this sort of "follow up service" and "goodwill" from a retailer. Service like that is worth thousands in advertising.
 
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Crusty181

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Hi,
we have all had our share of negative experiences with retailers, so it is great to be able to post a good news story.

Went to test and adjust the pressures in the air bags that were fitted to my Falcon a couple of months ago by Peddars in Moorabbin. Found out I had a sticky valve that wouldn't seal properly after I took the air hose off. Damn! It should be under warranty but it is a 25 odd km return drive to the dealer.

Being a tight a*&^*^8ss, I sent them an email on Monday outlining the problem and asked if they would pop one or two valve stems in the mail to me.
Came home this afternoon and found a package with two complete valve assemblies in it. No postmark. They had been hand delivered.
I also had an email from the manager, Nick, apologising for taking so long to get them to me!!!!!

Made my day!

So they have now gone into my book of "Good Guys".

cheers
Mike
Nice.
 

Prydey

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Apr 24, 2018
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if @mikerezny had specified when he brought his FG that he wanted the "tow Pack" and he paid the $1000-$2000 he would have gotten
tow bar
wiring for tow bar
slightly up graded suspension
and an oil cooler for his transmission

Not quite. For FG falcon, if you tick the 'tow pack' option, you get a tow bar and wiring loom. The actual car is identical in every other way to a car without a towbar. No different suspension, and they all come with a trans cooler (heat exchanger) standard.

The ZF trans also has its own internal thermostat and temperature compensation.

Some people bypass the factory heat exchanger and run an oil-air cooler in front of the a/c condenser, mainly to eliminate any risk of coolant ending up in the trans if the heat exchanger fails. There have been instances of this over the years, but I've not come across any instances from 2013 onwards.



an example of how to find damage..........

I leave home at 4.30am, its dark still, and outside ambient temp is about 20*
by 4.35am I am on the freeway doing 100km/h, RPM sitting on 2000
by 5.00am before I am at work and still on the freeway, 100km/h and 1800 RPM

moral........
its still cold and the oil has not heated up by the time I am on the freeway giving it its head, so the RPM is high
once the oil has reached operating temp, the revs drop and it is not slugging to change gears etc

on the way home, at 3.30pm, the ambient temp is around 38*-45*
still sitting on 100km/h, but when I leave work, even with it cold, RPM is at 1800, but by the time I am nearly home, the RPM is close to 2000

why.......?
the oil is TOO hot, and it is slowly damaging the clutch packs

not quite.

torque converter lock up isn't controlled by fluid temperature. as an aside, with modern trans, the correct term is 'fluid', not 'oil', as most use a fully man made synthetic fluid.

the torque converter controls the 'slip' in the gearbox, and with the car in question (FG mk2) the ZF gearbox will 'lock up' in all forward gears. the lock up is generally controlled by fluid in the torque converter. If you drain your gearbox, it doesn't drain the converter. This has to be pumped out.

torque converter lock up means the input shaft is spinning at the same rate as the engine flywheel, basically. if its slipping abnormally, then you have an issue with your torque converter.
 

Boots in Action

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Not quite. For FG falcon, if you tick the 'tow pack' option, you get a tow bar and wiring loom. The actual car is identical in every other way to a car without a towbar. No different suspension, and they all come with a trans cooler (heat exchanger) standard.

The ZF trans also has its own internal thermostat and temperature compensation.

Some people bypass the factory heat exchanger and run an oil-air cooler in front of the a/c condenser, mainly to eliminate any risk of coolant ending up in the trans if the heat exchanger fails. There have been instances of this over the years, but I've not come across any instances from 2013 onwards.





not quite.

torque converter lock up isn't controlled by fluid temperature. as an aside, with modern trans, the correct term is 'fluid', not 'oil', as most use a fully man made synthetic fluid.

the torque converter controls the 'slip' in the gearbox, and with the car in question (FG mk2) the ZF gearbox will 'lock up' in all forward gears. the lock up is generally controlled by fluid in the torque converter. If you drain your gearbox, it doesn't drain the converter. This has to be pumped out.

torque converter lock up means the input shaft is spinning at the same rate as the engine flywheel, basically. if its slipping abnormally, then you have an issue with your torque converter.

Well, well @Prydey , that is a bit of upgraded info for a lot of members, so I guess you must be in the motor trade. Up to now, @bigcol and @Drover have been the "font of knowledge" on auto trannies and how they are used when towing. These members have been around a long time and even though their knowledge may have started to become "dated", their's is based on actual experiences. It will be interesting to hear what they have to say and I am sure @mikerezny will gather your info into his knowledge bank. And welcome to the forum. Incidentally, my knowledge of auto trannies is about as much as @bigcol's "admitted" knowledge of solar and electrics!!
 
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Drover

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My tranny knowledge isn't dated just depends on the unit, so many versions, if I've driven it I will probably be familiar with it..........especially if there's a transfer case involved....most vehicles the tranny cooler is in the radiator, some choose to call it a heat exchanger, tranny fluid/oil again its a name, if Tranny Shops can't get on top of all the variations then what hope has a dumb truckie.......besides its a car.
 
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Prydey

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..most vehicles the tranny cooler is in the radiator, some choose to call it a heat exchanger,

in the case of falcon, Ford changed to an external heat exchanger, bolted to the left side of the engine block under the intake manifold to the rear, from BF2 onwards. V8 models kept the exchanger in the radiator.