Exterior How to fix a failed high pressure valve

[Macca_75]

Hey guys,

Not sure if that's what they are called, but the valve (brass) that limits the pressure when connected to mains failed on our last trip. No big deal as I happened to be in Adelaide and they swapped it under warranty. 10 minutes and the old one was off and the new one was on.

So I finally got around to pulling it apart to see what went wrong and I couldn't see anything obvious. Anyone know how the fail? Or what I should be looking for? I am interested in salvaging this as a spare if possible - nothing looks obviously wrong with it.

 

[Drover]

I have found when they fail just take the thing off, open it up shake the loose bits out and put it back together and you will never know any difference, once you pull out the spring and collar there's is still a small restrictor in place and it works fine, you won't blow water lines and flood your van, the HWS service will not explode, if the Caravan Park has some really high water pressure your garden hose fittings for your hose would blow off before anything happened......the John Guest fittings have a 120 to 140 psi so doubt any council water main will get to half that pressure.................I really think they are more for water saving by cutting pressure but in most vans you are fighting for decent pressure because of the crappy plumbing.,,,

Oh and you may find you might need to add a non return valve ($20 John Guest fitting) as some PV's have a non return fitted.

 

[Hylux]

I just finished fixing mine with low mains pressure. Took the brass one out underneath and it seemed ok just a little gunk in the filter, one way valve also seemed ok which is part of it.. My problem turned out jayco also has a one way valve in the cheap plastic hose connect part. Pulled that out and found was stopping full mains pressure, unfortunately there was enough pressure in the vans water to give good pressure for about 30 seconds which threw me for a while. I pulled theguts out of the connector and now works great.

 

[Bellbirdweb]

I have found when they fail just take the thing off, open it up shake the loose bits out and put it back together and you will never know any difference, once you pull out the spring and collar there's is still a small restrictor in place and it works fine, you won't blow water lines and flood your van, the HWS service will not explode, if the Caravan Park has some really high water pressure your garden hose fittings for your hose would blow off before anything happened......the John Guest fittings have a 120 to 140 psi so doubt any council water main will get to half that pressure.................I really think they are more for water saving by cutting pressure but in most vans you are fighting for decent pressure because of the crappy plumbing.,,,

Oh and you may find you might need to add a non return valve ($20 John Guest fitting) as some PV's have a non return fitted.

I replaced mine with a 500kPa version from the green shed, it’s be fantastic ever since.

In fact, last time we camped I was on mains water and I noticed that the toilet was flushing without the pump running for the fi st time ever.

People keep jumping in a saying not to do it because the JG fittings will blow and the HWS, but the JG fittings are rated to 1000kPa and the HWS has its own pressure relief valve.

I’d also love to find a park anywhere with more than 500kPa water pressure anyhow.

 

[Crusty181]

Hey guys,

Not sure if that's what they are called, but the valve (brass) that limits the pressure when connected to mains failed on our last trip. No big deal as I happened to be in Adelaide and they swapped it under warranty. 10 minutes and the old one was off and the new one was on.

So I finally got around to pulling it apart to see what went wrong and I couldn't see anything obvious. Anyone know how the fail? Or what I should be looking for? I am interested in salvaging this as a spare if possible - nothing looks obviously wrong with it.

Quality Pressure Limiting Valves don't seem to have the same issues that the Jayco supplied valves develop. Ive replaced the Jayco valve with Jayco replacements twice with the same result. The quick fix for the Jayco valve is to stretch the spring, so the obvious answer is the cheap Jayco import lacks spring quality. Stretching the spring will allow great flow, but obviously buggers any pressure protection the valve is questionably supplying, but I suspect a new low quality Jayco valve that chocks supply is likely not to have any reliable pressure setting anyway.

I've stretched the spring mine a couple of times but it slowly returns. I cut a piece of nylon rope and used that as a shim under the spring, to combat spring memory, but that eventually did the same thing. I ended up just removing the entire insides of the valve, and I now use a $10 garden irrigation valve on the mains tap.

 

[Crusty181]

I replaced mine with a 500kPa version from the green shed, it’s be fantastic ever since.

In fact, last time we camped I was on mains water and I noticed that the toilet was flushing without the pump running for the fi st time ever.

People keep jumping in a saying not to do it because the JG fittings will blow and the HWS, but the JG fittings are rated to 1000kPa and the HWS has its own pressure relief valve.

I’d also love to find a park anywhere with more than 500kPa water pressure anyhow.

Im with you, normal domestic residential supply is 500kPa so your 500kPa valve should be fine. Mains supply can fluctuate, the point is all our appliances are designed to be connected to 500kPa supply and Suburban HWS has a max working pressure rating of 850kPa.

I personally prefer lower pressure in the van, simply because its less likely to cause water blast mess. My litmus test is shower rose dribble; so long as none of the shower rose needle holes dribble Im happy. (works for me)

 

[straydingo]

Im with you, normal domestic residential supply is 500kPa so your 500kPa valve should be fine. Mains supply can fluctuate, the point is all our appliances are designed to be connected to 500kPa supply and Suburban HWS has a max working pressure rating of 850kPa.

Not quite right unfortunately. The plumbing regs and Aust Std are supposed to have plumbers install limiters on all new plumbing works to 500kpa, but rarely happens from what I've seen. There is an adjustable screw valve on your water meter tho, so maybe thats the excuse.. The idea is have the point-of-use limiting the pressure while the street main can be kept high.
Invariably we find day time pressure drops simply because of use - the more people using water reduces the overall pressure. Opening a tap is actually like a pressure relief valve. In a caravan park with lots connected to a narrow line....low flow rate, and thus low apparent pressure.
But when no-one is using water, the pressure is higher. 2am is when hot water services and dishwashers often crap out. The pressure in the middle of the night is when its at its highest, and I've tested my house peaking at over 1000kpa at times, but more commonly around 750kpa.

The pressure valve is in the van to protect everything at peak pressure when not in use, not when the taps, shower or toilet etc are actually running.

While pressure valves and flow restrictors are essentially doing the same function, a pressure valve is (supposedly) designed to maintain a set value, while the restrictor can be wildly inaccurate (and could also fail by high pressure) and just slow things downs (eg so we don't get a big spurt of water hitting the sink and splashing back at us). Having one of each won't harm anything. But quality trumps, which is why Jaycos fail.... One plumber suggests three years is the life of a pressure valve.

Point of interest - check your insurances, AAMI used to have a clause in the house insurance policy under 'Escape of Liquids' or some such (flooding other than from a natural water course) that they wouldn't pay out if the 'escaped liquid' was as a result of tested pressure greater than 500kpa. I can't find it now in the PDS, but if one insurer had it in theirs.....

 

[Crusty181]

Not quite right unfortunately. The plumbing regs and Aust Std are supposed to have plumbers install limiters on all new plumbing works to 500kpa, but rarely happens from what I've seen. There is an adjustable screw valve on your water meter tho, so maybe thats the excuse.. The idea is have the point-of-use limiting the pressure while the street main can be kept high.
Invariably we find day time pressure drops simply because of use - the more people using water reduces the overall pressure. Opening a tap is actually like a pressure relief valve. In a caravan park with lots connected to a narrow line....low flow rate, and thus low apparent pressure.
But when no-one is using water, the pressure is higher. 2am is when hot water services and dishwashers often crap out. The pressure in the middle of the night is when its at its highest, and I've tested my house peaking at over 1000kpa at times, but more commonly around 750kpa.

The pressure valve is in the van to protect everything at peak pressure when not in use, not when the taps, shower or toilet etc are actually running.

While pressure valves and flow restrictors are essentially doing the same function, a pressure valve is (supposedly) designed to maintain a set value, while the restrictor can be wildly inaccurate (and could also fail by high pressure) and just slow things downs (eg so we don't get a big spurt of water hitting the sink and splashing back at us). Having one of each won't harm anything. But quality trumps, which is why Jaycos fail.... One plumber suggests three years is the life of a pressure valve.

Point of interest - check your insurances, AAMI used to have a clause in the house insurance policy under 'Escape of Liquids' or some such (flooding other than from a natural water course) that they wouldn't pay out if the 'escaped liquid' was as a result of tested pressure greater than 500kpa. I can't find it now in the PDS, but if one insurer had it in theirs.....

Diddle I not say dat ... . Now you owe me a Bourbon ... why have you never bought me a Bourbon?

 

[geedub]

I recently went to caravan park for the first time in my Base Station (every previous time has been free camping) and when I hooked up to the mains I had leakage from the Jayco mains inlet. When I checked out the fitting the o-ring was cracked so I went back to using the tanks and internal pump but then I had water coming out the mains inlet when the pump was running. Once I got home I pulled out the pressure regulator and pulled it apart, I found a small piece of teflon tape in it which was preventing it from closing off. Now it is back on the van and appears to be working fine again.

The regulator includes a check valve and It seems that when I hooked up the mains the piece of tape was pushed into the check valve and jammed it open.

I might look at fitting some sort of filter to prevent it happening again.

I quick search and I found the same one on ebay. https://www.ebay.com.au/i/282612543399?chn=ps

 

[Crusty181]

I recently went to caravan park for the first time in my Base Station (every previous time has been free camping) and when I hooked up to the mains I had leakage from the Jayco mains inlet. When I checked out the fitting the o-ring was cracked so I went back to using the tanks and internal pump but then I had water coming out the mains inlet when the pump was running. Once I got home I pulled out the pressure regulator and pulled it apart, I found a small piece of teflon tape in it which was preventing it from closing off. Now it is back on the van and appears to be working fine again.

The regulator includes a check valve and It seems that when I hooked up the mains the piece of tape was pushed into the check valve and jammed it open.

I might look at fitting some sort of filter to prevent it happening again.

I quick search and I found the same one on ebay. https://www.ebay.com.au/i/282612543399?chn=ps

The plastic mains connection on the van has a nasty cheap check valve inside and they often jam open, or the "O" ring slips off which will allow pump water to come out the mains connection. Although the pressure limiting valve may provide some check valve function, Im not sure if that's part of its design. Anyways a good set and forget solution is to remove the mains filler internal valve all together and fit a John Guest check valve in the line behind it.

Big tip is whatever you do DONT buy a Jayco branded pressure limiting valve, they are rubbish and are notorious for causing most people varying levels of grief. You will be far better off buy quality branded PLV's from a plumbing supplies, (or Bunnings) for around $60-$70 ... same thing but much better, long term.

 

[Drover]

Agree with Crusyt, just pull the fill point valve apart and throw the insides away and fit a John Guest NR valve inline.

 

[Ray Jones]

First time using the water mains inlet over Christmas and like many others the water pressure was dismal for the sink, pathetic for the shower.
The pump supplied much better pressure.

Visited Bunnings this morning for the $69 NEFA pressure limiting valve (hint - look high on the shelves!), replaced the Jayco unit out, and now mains water pressure is as expected.
Only trap is the NEFA valve is physically a larger diameter which I solved by swapping with one of the larger U hangers supporting the hoses elsewhere. A bit of neoprene sheeting about the valve firmed up the fitment.

Win.

 

[Fabulous]

fixed ours last week, mains water was pretty average, so just used the tanks and kept refilling when they ran low.

Updated the valve which didn't take long (took longer to go to Bunnings and get one), pressure is now better than the pump, just need to be mindful to not turn the tap up too much as the new value has a higher pressure (500kpa v 350 on the original).

 

[Bellbirdweb]

fixed ours last week, mains water was pretty average, so just used the tanks and kept refilling when they ran low.

Updated the valve which didn't take long (took longer to go to Bunnings and get one), pressure is now better than the pump, just need to be mindful to not turn the tap up too much as the new value has a higher pressure (500kpa v 350 on the original).

You won’t have trouble turning the tap fully on.

The be never seen a CP tap with enough pressure to even go anywhere new 500kPa, and all of the John Guest plumbing is rated st 1000kPa.

I’ve also noticed that since changing the valve the pump doesn’t operate when I flush the toilet when on mains, whereas it always pumped previously.

 

[Fabulous]

I haven't checked if the toilet will flush, I would have thought that the toilet tank and pump are completely separate? I will have to have a play on the weekend before we go away on Australia day

 

[Bellbirdweb]

I haven't checked if the toilet will flush, I would have thought that the toilet tank and pump are completely separate? I will have to have a play on the weekend before we go away on Australia day

Usually vans with a separate shower/toilet dont have a flush tank, they take the water from the main supply.

Prior to changing the valve over, I thought that it takes water from the tanks to flush regardless of being on mains water (which seemed odd anyhow), but it seems that having the higher pressure available the water does come from the mains supply and only operates the pump if on tank or low pressure.