Auto transmission temps whist towing - do I need a transmission cooler?

Boots in Action

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2017
2,055
1,809
113
Ferny Grove, Queensland
After several posts on this subject under the heading of "How to raise rear of Falcon" introduced by @mikerezny, the matter of whether I needed a transmission cooler arose. I got a bit of a fright from some reports from members and decided to install temperature sensors for engine and transmission to monitor what was going on (see photos on other thread) and to convince myself that I did not need one for my set up. Other members put forward their ideas and also gave temps that they had recorded in their tug whilst towing their van. Now before you study the figures, I want to make it very clear that this is for MY setup - tug and van and the conditions that were prevailing at the time. Tug is 3 litre Colorado auto 4 speed rated to pull 3t. The van is a Jayco Penguin which was probably only 1.3t gross for the test. The low tow of the Penguin would have little or no air resistance as it is roughly the same height as the canopy on the tug. See photo when hooked up. Back of tug under canopy probably had approx 160kg of luggage, extra gas fridge and refreshments.
The holiday test run was from Brisbane to " a small drinking village with a fishing problem" called Poona, some 239kms north of Brisbane on the Great Sandy Strait , behind Fraser Island and about 40 kms south of Maryborough. Probably may not mean much to those not familiar with the region, but I thought it necessary to give local members some idea of the terrain , a few hills and mainly 110km dual highway. @Drover knows this area well!! Conditions on the forward journey were fine and 22C to start and rising to 29C on arrival at Poona. Return started at 22C, also fine, cloudy at times but quickly rose to 32C as midday approached. No significant winds were encountered in either direction either. Fuel consumption for total distance of 478kms was 10.10L/100km full tank to full tank.
Note that all readings were taken at the same point on both forward and return journeys, only the times and distances travelled from the start were different. After doing my research, I understand that the optimum tranny temp range is 80C to 90C, but up to 100C is still okay. It is only when temp gets to 107C and over for extended periods that tranny fluid becomes vulnerable to overheating and does not do transmission any good. Apparently over this temp, one is in "danger country" as far as life of transmission lasts!!! Refer previous posts on "How to raise rear of Falcon". I hope this is of interest to members and at least gives some idea of what is happening whilst towing. Going on these results, I do not think I have a need for an oil cooler. Comments please.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0092.jpg
    IMG_0092.jpg
    195.8 KB · Views: 574
  • Colorado Eng-Trans Readings1.jpg
    Colorado Eng-Trans Readings1.jpg
    493.8 KB · Views: 563

Boots in Action

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2017
2,055
1,809
113
Ferny Grove, Queensland
Hi @Boots in Action,
thanks for sharing these results.

It seems that the last few lines of the results have been clipped. Is it possible to reload an image with the full results?

cheers
Mike

Sorry about that @mikerezny . I have rescanned and hopefully you will get the full results this time. Note how tranny temp rose on the return travel as we entered the suburban area close to home when stop start travel reduced forward speed and there was more gear shifts.
 

Attachments

  • Colorado Eng-Trans Readings1.jpg
    Colorado Eng-Trans Readings1.jpg
    493.8 KB · Views: 482
  • Like
Reactions: Drover and G Daddy

JT76

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
297
497
63
47
Central Coast
Going off those temps I would say you don’t need one. Best advice would still be to talk to a tranny shop that knows your transmission and if they have any weak spots but there is nothing I can see that would worry me. PX Ranger normal is around 88 engine and 98 tranny. This is not towing and at any speed.
 

Drover

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2013
12,739
19,475
113
QLD
No need to get a cooler @Boots in Action , my Colorado will run those temps solo and with Big Mal behind is only just above yours, though thats with careful gear selection.

I would say your Ute hardly knows it has something behind.............

PS: Where's the piccies of the fish haul.
 

Axl

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2014
384
890
93
Brisbane/Bayside
Found a chart that may be of interest to you guys, I've been trying to keep up with what's been written on this subject lately but I must admit I've fallen behind. My new D-Max doesn't have an auto oil cooler so I've been looking around to gauge weather installing one would be beneficial.
I cant mod this vehicle to heavily due to 5 year warranty (although most warranties aren't worth the paper they are written on) but in the future I may look at a cooler. Once I fit the scangauge II I'll be able to track the trans temp and this will help me decide on a cooler in the future or not.
Essentially what this chart is saying is if you drive your vehicle with a trans temp of 121degc constantly your auto trans will last for just under 30000 miles, so if you hit the 121 mark every now and then for a couple of klms till it cools back down I don't believe that you are doing any significant damage.
Lets face it temps of 120degc aren't really heard of, I've read a lot of posts over the years from guys that have the ability to see there trans temp via scangauge I cant recall temps of 120degc being spoke about much at all, one guy over on the D-Max forum talks about temps of 120 whilst climbing Mount Hotham towing a 2.5t van but only for a couple of klms.
Drive it at 163degc constantly and you'll be lucky to get 500 miles, this is only a guide of course but it is certainly worth having a look at. The chart below came from this site https://estimate.myautomatictransmission.com/transmission-fluid-application-guide/ worth a look plenty of info.
Transmission_Temperatures.jpg
 
Last edited:

Boots in Action

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2017
2,055
1,809
113
Ferny Grove, Queensland
curiouser and curiouser @Boots in Action

how in the heck did you get a fat Penguin.............?

I thought they were only around the 800kgs empty..................

1.3T..................... thats a pregnant Penguin mate

Now see here @bigcol , times have changed since you were knowledgeable on Penguins. Like all vans, they have grown bigger and heavier. Tare weight is 959kg and gross is rated at 1259kg. According to the compliance plate anyway. @mikerezny's later model Penguin is slightly heavier too by about 20kgs I think. You may be thinking of Eagle or Hawk touring versions not OB.
 

Boots in Action

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2017
2,055
1,809
113
Ferny Grove, Queensland
Found a chart that may be of interest to you guys, I've been trying to keep up with what's been written on this subject lately but I must admit I've fallen behind. My new D-Max doesn't have an auto oil cooler so I've been looking around to gauge weather installing one would be beneficial.
I cant mod this vehicle to heavily due to 5 year warranty (although most warranties aren't worth the paper they are written on) but in the future I may look at a cooler. Once I fit the scangauge II I'll be able to track the trans temp and this will help me decide on a cooler in the future or not.
Essentially what this chart is saying is if you drive your vehicle with a trans temp of 121degc constantly your auto trans will last for just under 30000 miles, so if you hit the 121 mark every now and then for a couple of klms till it cools back down I don't believe that you are doing any significant damage.
Lets face it temps of 120degc aren't really heard of, I've read a lot of posts over the years from guys that have the ability to see there trans temp via scangauge I cant recall temps of 120degc being spoke about much at all, one guy over on the D-Max forum talks about temps of 120 whilst climbing Mount Hotham towing a 2.5t van but only for a couple of klms.
Drive it at 163degc constantly and you'll be lucky to get 500 miles, this is only a guide of course but it is certainly worth having a look at. The chart below came from this site https://estimate.myautomatictransmission.com/transmission-fluid-application-guide/ worth a look plenty of info.
View attachment 60257

Great chart @Axl . Thanks.
 

bigcol

Well-Known Member
Nov 22, 2012
6,814
10,164
113
Swan Valley Perth
Now see here @bigcol , times have changed since you were knowledgeable on Penguins. Like all vans, they have grown bigger and heavier. Tare weight is 959kg and gross is rated at 1259kg. According to the compliance plate anyway. @mikerezny's later model Penguin is slightly heavier too by about 20kgs I think. You may be thinking of Eagle or Hawk touring versions not OB.


nope, not knowledgeable on Penguins at all mate, I had a 2007 Flamingo OB, and she was 1260kgs empty, and about 4T fully loaded for bear...........

and I did not realise that they had grown in size

apologies

just looked at a 2007 Destiny (for my sister) and it was 1800 or 2000kgs (I think, dont quote me....) I remember thinking I should have another look at mine for weight
 
  • Like
Reactions: Drover

Boots in Action

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2017
2,055
1,809
113
Ferny Grove, Queensland
nope, not knowledgeable on Penguins at all mate, I had a 2007 Flamingo OB, and she was 1260kgs empty, and about 4T fully loaded for bear...........

and I did not realise that they had grown in size

apologies

just looked at a 2007 Destiny (for my sister) and it was 1800 or 2000kgs (I think, dont quote me....) I remember thinking I should have another look at mine for weight

The OBs are much heavier than the touring type which I have. I probably would have accepted an OB if it came along at the time, but not likely to go real bush bashing in the Penguin. Hence my reason for having the axle changed around to give better clearance on body over dips etc. Unfortunately, the axle is still low and would be a problem on "humped" surfaces. Still, one cannot have everything, or at least I can't so have to be happy with what I have got and why I have modified so many things to make up for my "poor man's " van amongst all you big guys in your Expandas.
 

mikerezny

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2016
1,630
2,728
113
Mount Waverley, VIC
Hi,
forgive the stupid question, but....I assume that if one has a manual gearbox, the problems of transmission temperatures goes away. Is that correct?

cheers
Mike
 

Drover

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2013
12,739
19,475
113
QLD
Well not really but it isn't any great issue like an auto........when a manual gets hot enough to worry its the least of your problems....
 

Boots in Action

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2017
2,055
1,809
113
Ferny Grove, Queensland
Well not really but it isn't any great issue like an auto........when a manual gets hot enough to worry its the least of your problems....

Just like you said @Drover . However they do get very hot if there is insufficient oil in gearbox but will keep going doing horrific damage to the gear teeth and splines though. Friend of mine had a 2400cc Toyota model sedan (larger than the Corona????) with 5 speed box and was towing large van up the Sunshine Coast. Had just had the vehicle serviced too. Came to a "grinding halt" at 90kph on the main highway. Service guys had not put any oil back into gearbox!! Lucky he got that far. Result - full flat top recovery to service centre and they replaced gearbox completely. Lucky escape. Don't know what happened to service guy.
 

achjimmy

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2011
3,031
3,401
113
Can you dip the tranny and check your fluid? Color and smell usually are a good judge.

I got the cruisers “sealed for life “ tranny serviced at 55k as I had done a lot of towing (still generally in 4th) I’d rarely seen temps near 125c on the scan gauge generally around 90c using the box manually and ensuring your locked up is the biggest saver. ( easier said than done on a Cruiser)

Guy said the fluid was still ok but it was the right time to change it. It seemed to shift a bit better after the service but it could have been just me
 
  • Like
Reactions: bigcol and Drover

DRW

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2013
2,646
4,296
113
69
Beautiful Burrum Heads QLD
Timely reminder, our Jeep comes with telemetry so you can check various temps/pressures etc on the fly, at around 42 - 48 degrees ambient temperature travelling at around 110KPH (towing our last van 17:56.2OB expander fully loaded) it still sits around the 90 degree mark, yep hills to make it rise slightly but only by about 5 degrees. Fortunately it has an over heat alarm which used to come on from time to time when reversing up our steep narrow driveway at our last home on about the 15th attempt. The last service the local Jeep dealer performed I asked for a transmition service (I was working then and had money) and they refused saying it wasn't necessary till 160K, there is no dip stick either (shut up @Drover) but I will take it to the local auto tranny man before I embark on our Christmas journey which will probably be to SA via Broken Hill AGAIN to see the MIL, cheers
 

Drover

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2013
12,739
19,475
113
QLD
I wasn't going to say a thing, just like your recent fishing trip............not harping about stuff anymore anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bigcol

Fabulous

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2013
447
513
93
Melbourne
We were told to drive the car in sports mode. Not drive, with our Ford, we've had mo issues so far, heard of a lot of issues when people use drive. Our owners book shows the same.